IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #167

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MistyWaters said:
The problem is we won’t know what evidence the State has until the trial. Just because we don’t know doesn’t mean there isn’t any, that’s just the way it is. That is unless RA changes his plea to guilty before then.
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Entirely consistent with what I posted ;)

A trial in itself won't mean that we get the truth unless a number of questions are answered, such as -

Bergmann said:
what about the EF confession and his uncanny description of the crime scene in 2017 and then its whoosh complete silence... No-one so far wants to go there do they, and try to explain how on earth EF confessed to the same thing on the day those poor girls were found?
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We have challenges here as each year passes, for some of us posted from beginning; others are new; while many fit between. <modsnip: no source link>
I'm not informed about 'EF's confession accuracy?' Who is EF, how do we know what confession was; and how was accuracy confirmed?
 
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Bergmann said:
Entirely consistent with what I posted ;)

A trial in itself won't mean that we get the truth unless a number of questions are answered, such as -
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EF recounted an uncanny description of the crime scene??

Are you talking about the conversation that he had with one of his sisters in October of 2017?

That was 8 months after the murders?

There were many rumors floating about by that time. There were texts, photos,etc.

EF, described by the defense, has the mentality of a 7 year old. BUT he is a grown man. Many intellectually disabled people are looked at as inferior by society. It's unfair, but true. Many times, they just want to be a part of something that they feel is popular.

Isn't it reasonable to believe that EF saw BH Facebook page and really liked the Viking culture? He desperately wanted to be included. As bizarre as it is to most of us, maybe he believed that BH would hear of EFs supposed participation in the murders and make EF some type of martyr for it.

EF probably didn't understand the painting of Odin that BH and most Nordic worshippers have. Instead he took it literally. Take that and add it to everything else that was floating around through the rumor mill and it breaks down to EF and his tall tale.

Of the many people we have all discussed as potentially being responsible and/ or involved in the murder of the girls, EF is not a possible candidate IMO.

JMO

ETA:

This comes from the defense memo and begins around page 87.
 
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M. Kay said:
We have challenges here as each year passes, for some of us posted from beginning; others are new; while many fit between. <modsnip: no source link>
I'm not informed about 'EF's confession accuracy?' Who is EF, how do we know what confession was; and how was accuracy confirmed?
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EF is one of the 4 named in the memorandum. However, none of those individuals are named by LE as suspects so we need to be aware of violations of TOS.
 
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Bergmann said:
Entirely consistent with what I posted ;)

A trial in itself won't mean that we get the truth unless a number of questions are answered, such as -
Click to expand...

EF is not on trial and LE know why he wasn’t charged. I feel a little bit sad that a man with the mentality of a 7-year old keeps getting mentioned. Were you also expecting each of the 50000 tips to all be read out, LE to tell the jury how they ruled each of them out?

Isnt that how it used to be in the “old days”? Case closed! A mentally challenged suspect who couldn’t defend himself and didn’t understand what was happening would be found guilty. Ironic the defence is now winding back the clock.
 
Ravenmoon said:
EF recounted an uncanny description of the crime scene??

Are you talking about the conversation that he had with one of his sisters in October of 2017?

That was 8 months after the murders?

There were many rumors floating about by that time. There were texts, photos,etc.

EF, described by the defense, has the mentality of a 7 year old. BUT he is a grown man. Many intellectually disabled people are looked at as inferior by society. It's unfair, but true. Many times, they just want to be a part of something that they feel is popular.

Isn't it reasonable to believe that EF saw BH Facebook page and really liked the Viking culture? He desperately wanted to be included. As bizarre as it is to most of us, maybe he believed that BH would hear of EFs supposed participation in the murders and make EF some type of martyr for it.

EF probably didn't understand the painting of Odin that BH and most Nordic worshippers have. Instead he took it literally. Take that and add it to everything else that was floating around through the rumor mill and it breaks down to EF and his tall tale.

Of the many people we have all discussed as potentially being responsible and/ or involved in the murder of the girls, EF is not a possible candidate IMO.

JMO

ETA:

This comes from the defense memo and begins around page 87.
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According to his other sister, on 2/14/17, EF was worked up and told her he'd been on a bridge and two girls were killed (this was the same day the girls were found). The problem with this is that the sister didn't go to LE until 2-3 weeks later, when she claims she first heard about the murders. She didn't live in Delphi. So that leaves room to question her veracity, since by then a lot of information was out there, and a reward was announced. For me, it's just another big question mark. I can't just assume she's lying, or setting up her brother, anymore than I can just assume she's telling the truth. Jmo.
 
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TL4S said:
According to his other sister, on 2/14/17, EF was worked up and told her he'd been on a bridge and two girls were killed. The problem with this is that the sister didn't go to LE until 2-3 weeks later, when she claims she first heard about the murders. She didn't live in Delphi. So that leaves room to question her veracity, since by then a lot of information was out there, and a reward was announced. For me, it's just another big question mark. I can't just assume she's lying, or setting up her brother, anymore than I can just assume she's telling the truth. Jmo.
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Can you tell me if he claimed to have participated in the murders when he told his sister all of this?

If memory serves correctly, he said he was on the bridge with the 2 girls that were killed. He mentioned that he now had a brother.

I don't recall anything from the memo about him describing the crime scene at that point.
 
TL4S said:
According to his other sister, on 2/14/17, EF was worked up and told her he'd been on a bridge and two girls were killed. The problem with this is that the sister didn't go to LE until 2-3 weeks later, when she claims she first heard about the murders. She didn't live in Delphi. So that leaves room to question her veracity, since by then a lot of information was out there, and a reward was announced. For me, it's just another big question mark. I can't just assume she's lying, or setting up her brother, anymore than I can just assume she's telling the truth. Jmo.
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Yes, so many questions. How did it come to be that a mentally disabled young man is associated with white supremists practising pagan rituals? Who was responsible for caring for him and keeping track of his whereabouts on a day to day basis? Surely he was supervised?

I agree, considering the large reward, maybe it was EF who was sacrificed?
 
Ravenmoon said:
Can you tell me if he claimed to have participated in the murders when he told his sister all of this?

If memory serves correctly, he said he was on the bridge with the 2 girls that were killed. He mentioned that he now had a brother.

I don't recall anything from the memo about him describing the crime scene at that point.
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I don't think he did describe the crime scene on 2/14. Like you said, he talked about the "brother," the bridge, and the girls. If this is even true, it would be interesting to know whether he was acting worked up and talking about this before, or after the bodies were found.
 
TL4S said:
I don't think he did describe the crime scene on 2/14. Like you said, he talked about the "brother," the bridge, and the girls. If this is even true, it would be interesting to know whether he was acting worked up and talking about this before, or after the bodies were found.
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I would tend to believe that it was after, though I have no proof. The details of the crime scene would have been fresh and vivid in his memory. I can't imagine that he would have held back if he saw, knew or participated in the murders.

All that I can conclude is that if LE thought that this person was involved, his name would have been out there. They didn't seem to have much interest in him as a viable POI.

JMO
 
MistyWaters said:
This is a perfect example of the ‘art of misleading’ in the defence memo. Nowhere is it mentioned Click retired in 2021. Instead it give the impression he’s still involved in the Delphi investigation some capacity, deserving of an update for some reason.

Then the memo goes on to suggest an example of exculpatory evidence is that Odinite evidence was being withheld from the Probable Cause supporting RA‘s SW simply because a couple members of the Task Force were not willing to blab to Click the reason why RA was arrested? Aside from the fact a retired member of a police force has no right to expect that inside information would be shared with him, maybe by then ISP already knew Click was already working with the defence?

www.scribd.com

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion PDF | PDF | Prosecutor | Police

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion.pdf
www.scribd.com www.scribd.com
View attachment 450988
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Agree, might be why he has stated to media sources he believes the trial should broadcast.
 
Cyber sleuth said:
Agree, might be why he has stated to media sources he believes the trial should broadcast.
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Yeah as if his opinion means anything.

Leazenby lost the 2022 Sheriff’s election to Leggitt and he’s not still out there, pretending to still be in the centre of the case. Police officers come and go and they don’t take their investigations with them, as if they own the file. The defence certainly knows that, so to use ex-officers to attempt to prove their point is rather pathetic IMO.
 
MGF said:
The defense is doing their job, sewing doubt.

The more important aspect of this motion to dismiss is we now have a picture of the investigation, and apparent infighting between lead investigators, and disagreements with the FBI. And we now have a fairly good depiction of the crime scene for the first time. This is all useful information.

The cult thing seems to be secondary, and the staging of the bodies seems to after-the-fact, and the stick placement could easily be a Rorschach thing as the killer(s?) moved the bodies from the kill site, and attempted to hide them. The police stated in the press conference after RA had been arrested that they were still looking for others. But it doesn't get RA off the hook.
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framing ppl by name for the crime and exposing sensitive crime scene of children for the seedy public is doing thier job ?..eh no
 
gremlin444 said:
pdfhost.io

SKM_C360i23100209160 | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - SKM_C360i23100209160
pdfhost.io
Click to expand...

Paragraph 10 ponders the question “who has the burden of proof and what exactly is the legal standard at a suppression hearing”? Then they refer to paragraphs 6 - 10 in the Motion for Franks Hearing previously filed.

Looks to me as if they’ve realized they’re running in meaningless circles of chronic confusion, but don‘t want to outrightly admit it. If anyone thinks they’re clarifying anything, please chime in.

This is the Franks motion, previously filed.
 
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