IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #168

[TL4S]

I'm really curious about RA's behavior throughout this whole thing. We heard about the things he did around the time he made his incriminating statements to his wife/mother, but since then, we've seen at least one hearing where he didn't even acknowledge his wife in the courtroom. His competency isn't being questioned, at this point, but what about his overall demeanor, compliance, and how has he been to work with? Is he eager and an active participant in his defense, is he complacent, is he difficult? Is he suicidal? Does he speak with his family?

Whether guilty or innocent, his living conditions would be a factor, I think, in his day-to-day mental state. But I would be interested to know what he's like to work with, as his counsel.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I'm sorry but your last sentence made me laugh.
Of course he's just fine. Who wouldn't be in his situation?

He is a Defendant charged with the murders of Abby and Libby. A Judge signed a PCA and they have searched his home and car believing there was enough evidence (probable cause) that RA did commit this crime. Not counting he placed himself at the scene, at the same time, in the same clothes, and has confessed 5 times on a recorded jailhouse phone line.

It's not like he is some completely, no way in the world, innocent man plucked off the street of Delphi for no reason and slapped in prison.

He was overweight when arrested, he obviously is under duress adjusting to being incarcerated. It isn't unusual he would lose weight. He was doing fine in Westville from Nov - April, he was in on suicide watch because of threats he made of self harm. His world was ruined, his family, his wife, the public now knew his secret. That's got to be an enormous stressor.

If he is suffering emotionally, and refusing to eat, which I firmly believe is an effort to alter his appearance from BG photos, that is on him. He is being adequately fed, clothed, has access to showers, exercise. Books, tv and tablet, well until he broke it after his confessions to his wife and mother. I wonder if he has a new one by now?

If I believed RA was innocent and had been railroaded by LE, ISP and the FBI I could feel sympathy for him in this position. But I have no doubt they have the right man and I personally don't care if he's not living the lifestyle of a free man anymore. Why should he? He had 5+ years playing pool, working, hiking and living life to the fullest that he didn't deserve IMO.

Abby and Libby have been laying in the cold, hard dirt since Feb 13, 2017. Robbed of their lives and the future of high school, graduation, college, marriage, children, careers. Everything they were entitled to experience until some psychopath brutally murdered them. Their families lives have been changed forever and they suffer beyond our understanding every day I'm sure.

No, I don't feel sorry for RA. I wanted him treated humanely, taken to a trial with a jury of his peers. Found guilty based on evidence presented by both the State and Defense that proves him beyond a REASONABLE doubt and sentenced for these crimes. I hope he never sees the light of day as a free man again. Abby and Libby will never see the light of another day for no actions of their own.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

I personally don’t believe Baldwin should have been allowed to stay on with the case in any event.

Personally I was stunned by the Franks memorandum. I hope RA gets better lawyers.

 

[mrjitty]

Agree.

If you really want to defend RA then you need to come across with a sober and forensic examination of the P case, rather than rather wild and imaginative leaps which few jurors will swallow - worse still, they just won’t believe a word you say if that’s the way you conclusions you come to. I mean staged CS okay, but to try to then jump to ritualistic is asking a lot of any jury!

What I do hope is that when J Gull reaches out to the public defenders office then he gets counsel again who have private practice and therefore the time and resources to fight such a significant case. If he gets a standard public defender RA is toast. Not because a public defender isn’t as good but they just won’t have the time that Baldwin and Rozzi have had to dedicate to this.

And then post conviction the next set of attorneys will have a field day with improper and inadequate counsel, which no one wants to see drag on.

But what have Rozzi and Baldwin actually done?

We are a year in to the case.

Maybe they should have focussed more on the franks hearing and pre trial motions about admissibility of other evidence and less on wild conspiracies

What happened with the bail hearing for example?

 

[girlhasnoname]

 

[girlhasnoname]

Replying to my own post because I can't highlight the paragraph I'm speaking to.

If you read the paragraph starting with "Disqualification of council is an extreme remedy......

This answers my a lot of my questions, maybe B knew of beforehand and wanted those pics leaked?

ETA: This was a page from Attorney Baldwin's Attorney on the matter.

MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

But what have Rozzi and Baldwin actually done?

We are a year in to the case.

Cashed the cheques and done a deep Reddit dive into Odinism? IDEK.

I struggle sometimes to understand defense strategies, but theirs is the oddest combination of spaghetti/SODDI/dead cat I've seen yet.

MOO

 

[Bergmann]

But what have Rozzi and Baldwin actually done?

We are a year in to the case.

Maybe they should have focussed more on the franks hearing and pre trial motions about admissibility of other evidence and less on wild conspiracies

What happened with the bail hearing for example?

Not the point I’m making.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I personally don’t believe Baldwin should have been allowed to stay on with the case in any event.

Personally I was stunned by the Franks memorandum. I hope RA gets better lawyers.

Yeah, I predicted heavy sanctions or disbarment early on. Maybe this was a 1, 2, 3 strikes you're out.

Press Release when they were first assigned #1
Franks Motion #2
Leak of CS photos #3

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

But what have Rozzi and Baldwin actually done?

We are a year in to the case.

Maybe they should have focussed more on the franks hearing and pre trial motions about admissibility of other evidence and less on wild conspiracies

What happened with the bail hearing for example?

I think the bail hearing was dismissed when it was proven that RA confessed to the crimes 5 times. Even the Defense admitted that he did say those things, of course they had reasons why. IMO

 

[Bergmann]

theirs is the oddest combination of spaghetti/SODDI/dead cat I've seen yet

It would never have fooled a jury. Worse still it would have opened up an appeal based on inadequate counsel.

Far better to just focus on unpicking the P case piece by piece.

 

[tlcya]

Cashed the cheques and done a deep Reddit dive into Odinism? IDEK.

I struggle sometimes to understand defense strategies, but theirs is the oddest combination of spaghetti/SODDI/dead cat I've seen yet.

MOO

THIS right here!

 

[Bergmann]

when it was proven that RA confessed to the crimes 5 times

I didn’t think things were proven out of court?

I do agree though the alleged confessions have certainly skewed the case and I do wonder whether that made the former D panic and lose focus on the job in hand.

Reminds me of a tennis player who insists on whacking the ball forehand every chance. What do they do when they are losing? Just hit the ball harder!

Very odd to see two largely (previously?) respected attorneys (in legal circles not on here lol!) lose the plot so quickly.

Some might choose to conclude that that’s because they knew they were up against it and RA is guilty. I think that POV completely misses what drives D lawyers to represent very difficult cases (remember everyone deserves a good D in their corner whether or not the court of public opinion has already convicted them). I’m not defending B and R by the way, far from it.

 

[sunshineray]

Yes I’m not saying Baldwin shouldn’t be at fault, that wasn’t my point. It’s deplorable that the discovery material was left accessible in his office. Note - that’s his story.

So it goes “M”, his friend, not only stole copies of the photos but leaked them and according to the leaked text messages that was preplanned in advance.

But now “M” gets off scot free? I don’t think that’s okay. His reputation isn’t damaged because nobody knows who he is, meanwhile only Baldwin and Rozzi face any sort of consequences. ”M” should be charged with data theft and perhaps he will be, time will tell.

As a comparable, it’s still considered robbery if someone walks into a store or home and steals stuff without breaking the door down.

Yep, pretty sure they will be charged at some point in the future as ISP are investigating. The girl's families deserve a thorough accounting of why those photos will forever be public. IMO

 

[tlcya]

another thing of note IMO, Baldwin and Rozzi have separate practices. Baldwin's office is alleged to be where the leak came from. Rozzi's office was apparently blameless. So why did BOTH quit?

That makes me believe neither man withdrew solely because of the leak. Also, if as some suggested, the judge "coerced" Baldwin into stepping down, how do we explain Rozzi?

 

[sunshineray]

I haven't seen any indication that the judge visited the prison to see what his conditions are/were.
She based her decision on what the warden and his guards said.
I don't believe she was lying but she could have been misinformed.

We often hear how prisoners make false claims about their treatment and conditions. We also hear attys with clients inside prisons confirm that many of those claims are true. Here's an easy way to decide for yourself as what the claims are and if they have enough validity to pass to the next step.

I looked at Westville because it's the one of interest here but you can probably search any prison.
I'm appalled that some of the treatments described are considered OK within prison system. By some of the standards, I'd guess that RA isn't being treated worse than the other Westville inmates.

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Maybe his residence will be the first order of business his new attorneys address. Prison is not a nice environment for anyone involved, even the people who work there I'd imagine. Some accused criminals get bail set, some are held without bail. The system determines these things for the safety of the community. A judge was convinced to deny bail. I have to trust their judgement. AJMO

 

[Emma Peel]

another thing of note IMO, Baldwin and Rozzi have separate practices. Baldwin's office is alleged to be where the leak came from. Rozzi's office was apparently blameless. So why did BOTH quit?

That makes me believe neither man withdrew solely because of the leak. Also, if as some suggested, the judge "coerced" Baldwin into stepping down, how do we explain Rozzi?

Great question; I could see how they may both found it necessary to withdraw due to upcoming conflicts of interest (b/c of NEW active LE investigation over the Leaks).

 

[sunshineray]

I feel like maximum security confinement is what is probably keeping RA alive. I suspect that if given the opportunity inside a less secure facility or out on bail, he would likely end his life...or someone else might do it for him.

LE, the P, and the J have taken a lot of heat over where RA is confined. One could argue that this shows that LE and the P actually do want the truth, and the right party(ies) to pay for this crime. Hypothetically, if RA had hung himself in a County jail cell after his arrest...it could very well have been case closed on this matter for LE and the P (explain to the public that the person that likely did it is dead, maybe take some heat for not watching him closer, and move on with life)...not to mention a great deal of money saved by the State and County...but they haven't allowed that to happen.

I don't like that someone that has not yet been convicted is sitting in Westville...but in one respect I do agree with the D...I think there is a good chance that more than one individual was involved...and if RA knows something and is permitted to end his life (or is murdered himself)...others involved will continue to roam the streets and justice will not be served.

JMO

Not only the D has mentioned others could be involved. The P said so in court as part of the reason to keep documents sealed...protection of witnesses being a worry for the judge to consider.

"One of Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland’s main arguments in keeping the affidavit sealed is the belief that Allen is not the only person involved in the case. He also argued before the judge on Tuesday that if an unredacted affidavit was released, witnesses in the investigation could be harassed."

Bail hearing granted for Richard Allen; Prosecutor argues others may have been involved in Delphi murders

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. — A much-anticipated hearing in Carroll County Tuesday resulted in a bail hearing granted for Delphi suspect Richard Allen, as well as a prosecutor saying in court what s…

www.google.com

 

[Observer33]

Unless there was more than one person involved, and RA knows something. In which case, you cut him loose on bail and he is likely a dead man.

6-10 US Marshals with him when he goes to and from Westville/Court is not cheap. Someone thinks someone might possibly be inclined to take a shot at him.

JMO

maybe or he decides not to exercise bail and they house him in a county jail.

 

[Jade]

I'm really curious about RA's behavior throughout this whole thing. We heard about the things he did around the time he made his incriminating statements to his wife/mother, but since then, we've seen at least one hearing where he didn't even acknowledge his wife in the courtroom. His competency isn't being questioned, at this point, but what about his overall demeanor, compliance, and how has he been to work with? Is he eager and an active participant in his defense, is he complacent, is he difficult? Is he suicidal? Does he speak with his family?

Whether guilty or innocent, his living conditions would be a factor, I think, in his day-to-day mental state. But I would be interested to know what he's like to work with, as his counsel.

If the behavior for him is typical is my interest.

For example: is he normally petulant?

An exaggeration of a typical manifestation of his personality would be expected as he finds himself in his current circumstances.



imo