IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #168

[MistyWaters]

That might apply to the leakers but not to AB for leaking. At this point there is no evidence that the photos were leaked for nefarious purposes.

It seems like there should be some code in Indiana law as to what should happen to attys who leak evidence and who should rule on that. I know it's said the judge has the authority so I'm just wanting to see it in law.

I doubt there‘d be any special law in Indiana Code that‘s made public and pertains only to attorneys. But in representing a client there’s likely an inch thick agreement attorneys are required to adhere to. The confidentiality agreement you posted a few days ago regarding discovery hinted at that. Agreements usually specify consequences as well.

But do we know that Baldwin might face any further repercussions or is this just speculation? Instead it may be the trusted friend who’s the centre of any current police investigation.

 

[girlhasnoname]

This?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1715371681286377492

Thanks. I'd never seen all the pages.

I don't believe this was just an another innocent 'oooopsie' by the Defense by a mile. Obviously the Judge didn't either. Their unprofessional conduct from Day 1 has made a mockery of any Defendants right to fair and vigorous representation. They've hurt the process, not helped Defense Attorneys in any way IMO.

I'm glad they got the boot, hopefully their replacements will conduct themselves according the requirements of the Court so the family doesn't keep having to suffer needless time delays again. I honestly think that will happen with new representation knowing this Judge is not going to abide misconduct.

JMO

 

[zh0r4]

It's unfortunately a valid point though, IMO. When a mother can get a ransom phone call from her daughter saying she's been kidnapped (audio taken and manipulated from the daughter's social media accounts) and totally believe it, anything is possible. I believe the Prosecution doesn't want cameras in the courtroom but the AI thing is a real faking danger that's only growing.

Every deep fake has code markers that anyone with a PC can find. One of the pros of all video being digital now is that you can inspect element, and if it has EfficientNetB4 + EfficientfacemapNetingB4ST + B4Att + B4AttST it's a telltale it's a deep fake.

Regardless, a closed court room wouldn’t stop anyone from trying to present deep fakes anymore than an open courtroom. JMO.

 

[Laughing]

Agreed, I would hate to see RA pull an FD.

Meh, but for the families' sake, I want them to get the answers they want and deserve whatever those may be.

Jumping off your post here, a lot of people forget that RA is in solitary confinement because of HIS OWN threat of self harm.

MOO

bbm

Perhaps not everyone is following that case:

Fotis Dulos was charged with the murder of his wife in Connecticut, along with his girlfriend & an associate, Kent Mawhinney.

When FD could not secure/renew a bond that kept him out of jail -- he ended his own life.

Still Missing - CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #56

Poorly worded on my part. I didn’t mean I think he is dumb-I meant that “they” collectively thought he was dumb-too dumb to hang onto the seats that Dulos didn’t want anyone to find. I suspect FD and MT expected that PG was intimidated by FD, who employed PG, and expected that PG would do as...

www.websleuths.com

Many people seeking Justice for Jennifer are not happy with this.

Abby & Libby's friends & family deserve protection from that result -- as does RA imho.

JMHO YMMV LRR

 

[MistyWaters]

Well, you can only work with what is presented to the court and so I have.

I heard they’re hiring to fill a vacancy for a defense attorney for RA!

 

[Emma Peel]

The only crime I've seen mentioned is Contempt of Court.
What other category does this leak fall into?

theft ?

 

[girlhasnoname]

I think we have to keep an open mind about whether AB was betrayed. As I understand, there's an ongoing investigation into how the evidence was taken and released to the public. We should wait until we learn the results of that investigation. ISP is hopefully taking advantage of the tools available to them to track cell phone, internet, text and other activity related to the documents and those who had them.

Agreed, but it doesn't look good for AB. The Judge did not make that highly unusual and seldom used ruling if she didn't have some convincing evidence IMO.

 

[FrostedGlass]

If I am being honest, I cannot think of any reason other than something nefarious being the reason for leaking. Can you?

And it is absolutely ABs responsibility. He took those photos and all other evidence in with the understanding that he had to keep them protected and private. Wouldn't you agree?


JMO

I agree with you that it was his responsibility to protect the discovery he had.

I do not, for one minute, think the AB leaked those photos so they could be shared as CSAM. IF that's where you're going with your comment. What on earth would be the benefit to him for doing that?

When I learn the true identities of the 2 leakers, I'll have a better idea of what their motives were.

 

[Ravenmoon]

I agree with you that it was his responsibility to protect the discovery he had.

I do not, for one minute, think the AB leaked those photos so they could be shared as CSAM. IF that's where you're going with your comment. What on earth would be the benefit to him for doing that?

When I learn the true identities of the 2 leakers, I'll have a better idea of what their motives are.

No. I never stated that AB leaked the photos himself.

I also never stated that they were sold specifically for the purpose you stated .

What I said is that AB is responsible for protecting the evidence.

The person that leaked them did so for nefarious purposes which could be:

15 minutes of fame
To make a profit ( regardless of the reason)
To share with friends ( disgusting and not much different than any other reason listed)

Would you care to possibly speculate on any wholesome reasons for leaking them? Because I would like to know what those could be. Maybe it will change my mind.


JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

Thanks. I'd never seen all the pages.

I don't believe this was just an another innocent 'oooopsie' by the Defense by a mile. Obviously the Judge didn't either. Their unprofessional conduct from Day 1 has made a mockery of any Defendants right to fair and vigorous representation. They've hurt the process, not helped Defense Attorneys in any way IMO.

I'm glad they got the boot, hopefully their replacements will conduct themselves according the requirements of the Court so the family doesn't keep having to suffer needless time delays again. I honestly think that will happen with new representation knowing this Judge is not going to abide misconduct.

JMO

When the new defense is appointed I’ve noticed many in the media speculating it will be much more low key and less dramatic. I‘d think that would be very much welcomed by everyone directly involved including the families of the victims.

Something I wonder about, we know that Baldwin‘s attorney submitted that brief pleading his case to the court at about 10am. The key parties met with the Judge in her chambers before the hearing was to commence at 2pm and so everyone naturally assumes the reason both the attorneys withdrew was also because of the leak and possible sanctions.

But WHAT IF it was about another matter that came to the attention of the court prior to the hearing that was entirely unconnected to the leak? If that were so, the ex-D would probably prefer the public to think they withdrew over the leak. JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

I doubt there‘d be any special law in Indiana Code that‘s made public and pertains only to attorneys. But in representing a client there’s likely an inch thick agreement attorneys are required to adhere to. The confidentiality agreement you posted a few days ago regarding discovery hinted at that. Agreements usually specify consequences as well.

But do we know that Baldwin might face any further repercussions or is this just speculation? Instead it may be the trusted friend who’s the centre of any current police investigation.

If something is at the judge's discretion, that should be spelled out somewhere (I would think.) She can rule on a Contempt of Court charge... I'm just trying to figure out where she has the power to force D off the case, which I do not think she did.

 

[Emma Peel]

No. I never stated that AB leaked the photos himself.

I also never stated that they were sold specifically for the purpose you stated .

What I said is that AB is responsible for protecting the evidence.

The person that leaked them did so for nefarious purposes which could be:

15 minutes of fame
To make a profit ( regardless of the reason)
To share with friends ( disgusting and not much different than any other reason listed)

Would you care to possibly speculate on any wholesome reasons for leaking them? Because I would like to know what those could be. Maybe it will change my mind.


JMO

FWIW - MS interview w/ Court TV suggests MS received the FB direct messaging (screen shots) relative to motivation - and gave both the Leaked material and the FB screen shots w/ LE ...

And, then (because MS cares little about confidentiality and/or about themselves as impartial witnesses?) they announced via various podcasts/interviews what the leaked material consisted of and what the FB screen shots said as to motive.

Anyway, if you hear MS's interpretation of the screen-shots, the motive of the leaker(s) for leaking crime scenes was to help out (what the leaker saw to be) an innocent defendant.

JMHO

 

[Ravenmoon]

FWIW - MS interview w/ Court TV suggests MS received the FB direct messaging (screen shots) relative to motivation - and gave both the Leaked material and the FB screen shots w/ LE ...

And, then (because MS cares little about confidentiality and/or about themselves as impartial witnesses?) they announced via various podcasts/interviews what the leaked material consisted of and what the FB screen shots said as to motive.

Anyway, if you hear MS's interpretation of the screen-shots, the motive of the leaker(s) for leaking crime scenes was to help out (what the leaker saw to be) an innocent defendant.

JMHO

That's strictly an opinion from MS.
I can't really see that as fact.

 

[Emma Peel]

Agreed, but it doesn't look good for AB. The Judge did not make that highly unusual and seldom used ruling if she didn't have some convincing evidence IMO.

I'm sorry - trying to follow - quick question ... which ruling of the Judge are your referencing? The one accepting withdrawal?

 

[Emma Peel]

That's strictly an opinion from MS.
I can't really see that as fact.

Exactly, that's true about every opinion from MS. And supports your point. jmho

 

[MistyWaters]

If something is at the judge's discretion, that should be spelled out somewhere (I would think.) She can rule on a Contempt of Court charge... I'm just trying to figure out where she has the power to force D off the case, which I do not think she did.

I noticed no reports of anyone being sanctioned nor charged with any crime. Didn’t RA‘s attorneys withdraw from the case as is there right to do so? It may be that they chose to keep their reasons for doing so between them and the judge.

 

[FrostedGlass]

No. I never stated that AB leaked the photos himself.

I also never stated that they were sold specifically for the purpose you stated .

What I said is that AB is responsible for protecting the evidence.

The person that leaked them did so for nefarious purposes which could be:

15 minutes of fame
To make a profit ( regardless of the reason)
To share with friends ( disgusting and not much different than any other reason listed)

Would you care to possibly speculate on any wholesome reasons for leaking them? Because I would like to know what those could be. Maybe it will change my mind.


JMO

Well, you did say this, which prompted my reply.

"BUT... the photos include a nude, murdered underage girl/s. Sick as it is, there is a market for that.
Safe to say that people of a certain caliber would be pretty happy to pay for them."

I don't consider two purposes you listed to be particularly nefarious; selling for profit is. Our definitions of that may differ.
I don't find any wholesome reason for leaking those photos. Maybe they leaked to damage the case, to damage the D's reputation, to somehow help the case, got caught up in the excitement of having something exclusive, the list could go on. We'll know more after we learn who the trusted friend is.

 

[Emma Peel]

If something is at the judge's discretion, that should be spelled out somewhere (I would think.) She can rule on a Contempt of Court charge... I'm just trying to figure out where she has the power to force D off the case, which I do not think she did.

IMO, in chambers: Baldwin would argue NOT having a LEAK hearing in front of cameras w/ witnesses etc.. and the Prosecution would have arrived prepped for the LEAK hearing ... and objected to not having one.

Judge had the power to resolve that argument. Somehow.

And we see the result only. Which was the withdrawal of the Defense counsel(s)
JMHO and just a WAG.

And I'm very interested to see if any of that will somehow be documented? You'd think it would have to be documented, but perhaps if it was, then it would be sealed as well?

 

[girlhasnoname]

Why start killing that day? Were there other crimes that led up to the murders? Any record of burglary, voyeur, even passing of bad checks, etc? It's not the norm for a middle age man to decide to start killing, right? What is known about the alleged killer RA? moo

It's not the 'norm', but it does happen. People can kill for the first time in a gruesome way and stop. Maybe the fulfillment of some sick, twisted fantasy? IDK

RA was probably so scared of getting caught with the intense media coverage, he wouldn't have dared another attempt IMO.

I think we'll find out more about RA's proclivities at trial. He isn't just your friendly neighborhood CVS Pharm Tech.

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

IMO, in chambers: Baldwin would argue NOT having a LEAK hearing in front of cameras w/ witnesses etc.. and the Prosecution would have arrived prepped for the LEAK hearing ... and objected to not having one.

Judge had the power to resolve that argument. Somehow.

And we see the result only. Which was the withdrawal of the Defense counsel(s)
JMHO and just a WAG.

And I'm very interested to see if any of that will somehow be documented? You'd think it would have to be documented, but perhaps if it was, then it would be sealed as well?

Hennessey argued that the judge should not disqualify AB from the case, didn't he. Would he argue that if she didn't have that power?