IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #170

[CGBSpender]

Oh. My. Good .....

So, does that mean that he ( if convicted)
Could possibly walk after a decade with good behavior?
Honestly, I feel even more heartbroken than ever.
2 girls. Gone. Erased.
Their lives mattered!

Apologies if I am being dramatic, but I had No Idea!!

I highly doubt it...unless he cuts some kind of deal potentially. What I mean by that is...if there was someone else involved...perhaps more so than he was...and he gives that person(s) up and testifies, he might get some slight break...or maybe some agreement that he won't have to do his time somewhere like Michigan City.

I honestly feel like I won't be satisfied unless and until someone is charged with Intentional Homicide in this case...because I feel like it's obvious someone intended with malice and aforethought to kill these kids...LE just needs to figure out who that is and prove it.

Edit: Plus, I think the base sentencing guideline is like 45 yrs on the low end...so if convicted of two counts, and sentenced consecutive...that's essentially an entire life for all intents and purposes.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

New Updates. I wonder what's with the DoC.

11/03/2023	Automated ENotice Issued to Parties Order Issued ---- 11/2/2023 : Andrew Joseph Baldwin;Bradley Anthony Rozzi;Nicholas Charles McLeland;Robert Cliff Scremin;William Santino Lebrato
11/03/2023	Motion to Withdraw Appearance Filed Motion to Withdraw Appearance Filed By: Indiana Department of Correction File Stamp: 11/03/2023
11/03/2023	Order Received from the Indiana Supreme Court Order Signed: 11/03/2023
10/15/2024	Jury Trial Session: 10/15/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ

 

[MistyWaters]

"It’s not a death penalty case or an LWOP (life without parole) case, it’s just a double homicide which we do routinely, unfortunately, here in Allen County. The only impact it will have is the travel time to another county,” Lebrato said Thursday just after the quarterly public defender board meeting held at the Rousseau Centre."

What?
Someone please explain!
It's not a death penalty case or an LWOP case??

JUST A DOUBLE HOMICIDE???

I DON'T UNDERSTAND?!!!

What penalty are we looking at?
This freaks me out!

A flat sentence anywhere from 50 to 100 years would be appropriate IMO. If RA is convicted I doubt there’s a great appetite for years of appeals as would occur with a death sentence and considering he’s already 50 years of age.

 

[Ravenmoon]

I highly doubt it...unless he cuts some kind of deal potentially. What I mean by that is...if there was someone else involved...perhaps more so than he was...and he gives that person(s) up and testifies, he might get some slight break...or maybe some agreement that he won't have to do his time somewhere like Michigan City.

I honestly feel like I won't be satisfied unless and until someone is charged with Intentional Homicide in this case...because I feel like it's obvious someone intended with malice and aforethought to kill these kids...LE just needs to figure out who that is and prove it.

JMO

I wish there was more transparency.
It is my biggest gripe with the case.
I do think that RA had help in SOME sense.

We were so close to finding out what actually happened. Now, it feels so distant.

It upsets me, but I can't begin to imagine what the families are going through.

JMO

 

[Tealgrove]

What am I missing?

Why would these lawyers be using Yahoo email accounts and Facebook Messenger to discuss these highly sensitive matters?

Don’t they have secure proper email accounts?

Did they use these “other” means to hide what they were doing?

I’m so done on this.

 

[MistyWaters]

What am I missing?

Why would these lawyers be using Yahoo email accounts and Facebook Messenger to discuss these highly sensitive matters?

Don’t they have secure proper email accounts?

Did they use these “other” means to hide what they were doing?

I’m so done on this.

Sure hope they have a secure means to return the discovery files back to the prosecution, wouldn’t want it all to go missing.

 

[CGBSpender]

I wish there was more transparency.
It is my biggest gripe with the case.
I do think that RA had help in SOME sense.

We were so close to finding out what actually happened. Now, it feels so distant.

It upsets me, but I can't begin to imagine what the families are going through.

JMO

I'm not sure that LE is done charging in this case...so total transparency is a luxury that they may not have unfortunately. If there were other individuals involved, LE is going to have to hold back out of an abundance of caution...and also assuming they are correct that RA had a role...and if he was not the only one involved...they need to keep him alive, and incentivize him to start talking.

JMO

 

[Jurisprudence]

The Indiana AG declined to represent JG so she had to hire private counsel. They asked for a 5 day extension to reply. Then if one looks into the Indiana AG you see he was just reprimanded himself and received a stinging "$250" fine and a public reprimand. That sort of slap on the wrist is not exactly a deterrent to violating the rules.

You can't make this stuff up.

The state's Supreme Court's opinion Thursday specifically found that Rokita violated rules that say a lawyer cannot make public statements about an investigation that has a likelihood of "materially prejudicing" the proceeding and that a lawyer cannot "use means that have no substantial purpose other than to embarrass, delay or burden a third person."

Rokita admitted to both violations, according to the opinion, and the justices dismissed a third charge for violating confidentiality requirements in state law prior to filing a complaint against Bernard with the Indiana Medical Licensing Board last year.

Indiana AG Rokita reprimanded for comments on doctor who provided 10-year-old rape victim's abortion

The Indiana Supreme Court ruling stemmed from state Attorney General Todd Rokita's appearance on Fox News over reports of a 10-year-old's abortion.

www.usatoday.com

 

[Jurisprudence]

New Updates. I wonder what's with the DoC.

11/03/2023	Automated ENotice Issued to Parties Order Issued ---- 11/2/2023 : Andrew Joseph Baldwin;Bradley Anthony Rozzi;Nicholas Charles McLeland;Robert Cliff Scremin;William Santino Lebrato
11/03/2023	Motion to Withdraw Appearance Filed Motion to Withdraw Appearance Filed By: Indiana Department of Correction File Stamp: 11/03/2023
11/03/2023	Order Received from the Indiana Supreme Court Order Signed: 11/03/2023
10/15/2024	Jury Trial Session: 10/15/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ

There was never even a notice of appearance by them was there? Did it suddenly appear on there today with this withdrawal? This case reeks. It's impossible to think that the DOC notice of appearance was filed for the ambush hearing and kept off the docket to hide it from the defense. I truly hope there is a reasonable explanation here.

jmo

 

[CGBSpender]

There was never even a notice of appearance by them was there? Did it suddenly appear on there today with this withdrawal? This case reeks. It's impossible to think that the DOC notice of appearance was filed for the ambush hearing and kept off the docket to hide it from the defense. I truly hope there is a reasonable explanation here.

jmo

IDOC filed their appearance back on 06/20/2023. It's been on the CCS as long as I can recall.

 

[Jurisprudence]

IDOC filed their appearance back on 06/20/2023. It's been on the CCS as long as I can recall.

View attachment 458060

June??? I give up even trying to understand this docket anymore lol.

 

[Emma Peel]

IDOC filed their appearance back on 06/20/2023. It's been on the CCS as long as I can recall.

View attachment 458060

ah ha!

quash quash and more quash. Good thing it's almost thanksgiving.

Does anyone recall what Subpoena the IN DOC wanted to Quash in July?

Was there a prison report on RA submitted that they wanted to protect? That's all I've got. Pure conjecture.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Dave Bangert was a reporter for the Journal & Courier for a good number of years. You can see his byline in many articles. He retired and now continues his work in Based in LaFayette, Indiana.

He attended the last hearing and did a nice write-up about the proceedings. He also took a picture of RA being escorted down the stairs at the courthouse. The picture is included in the article.

I was pretty surprised to see RA with long shoestrings in his white shoes. I hope his keepers remembered to take them away from him when he got back to prison...him being on suicide watch and all.

Judge: ‘Cannot … will not’ reinstate defense attorneys. Delphi murder trial pushed back

 

[CGBSpender]

ah ha!

quash quash and more quash. Good thing it's almost thanksgiving.

Does anyone recall what Subpoena the IN DOC wanted to Quash in July?

Was there a prison report on RA submitted that they wanted to protect? That's all I've got. Pure conjecture.

Here you go...

 

[Emma Peel]

Here you go...

Thank you, docket detective!

 

[Jurisprudence]

ah ha!

quash quash and more quash. Good thing it's almost thanksgiving.

Does anyone recall what Subpoena the IN DOC wanted to Quash in July?

Was there a prison report on RA submitted that they wanted to protect? That's all I've got. Pure conjecture.

Their request to inspect the prison would pose security risks and is beyond the scope of discovery and so, the subpoena should be quashed

Request to Inspect Westville Correctional Facility

6. On May 19, 2023, counsel for Mr. Allen issued to DOC a subpoena and request for production demanding to enter Westville Correctional Facility “for the purpose of inspecting, measuring, surveying, and photographing the individual cell block(s), and surrounding facility” where Mr. Allen has been housed since November 2022. A true and accurate copy of the subpoena and request for production are attached as Exhibit A.

7. DOC objects to Mr. Allen’s request for inspection—in particular the request to inspect the “surrounding facility”—because permitting such an inspection would introduce unacceptable security risks at the facility and unduly burden DOC staff to accommodate such a request.

…

Unreasonable and Oppressive Request for Inspection

11. Here, the request that Mr. Allen’s attorneys be permitted to inspect, survey, measure and photograph Westville Correctional Facility—not just the cellblocks, but the “surrounding facility”—is not “reasonably calculated to lead to the discovery of admissible evidence.” T.R. 26(B)(1). In particular, such an inspection does not reasonably relate any cognizable claim or defense. The probable cause affidavit does not allege that there is any connection whatsoever between the murder charges and Westville Correctional Facility. Such an inspection would shed no light on “the existence, description, nature, custody, condition and location of any books, documents, or other tangible things” related to the charges or, other than Mr. Allen himself, “the identity and location of persons having knowledge of any discoverable matter.” T.R. 26(B)(1).

https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/Motion-to-Quash-Subpoena-or-Enter-Protective-Order.pdf-6-27-2023-13.34.25-248611410-B749FAD5-EDAD-48C9-8895-21ED816037CC.pdf

 

[FrostedGlass]

Their request to inspect the prison would pose security risks and is beyond the scope of discovery and so, the subpoena should be quashed

Request to Inspect Westville Correctional Facility

6. On May 19, 2023, counsel for Mr. Allen issued to DOC a subpoena and request for production demanding to enter Westville Correctional Facility “for the purpose of inspecting, measuring, surveying, and photographing the individual cell block(s), and surrounding facility” where Mr. Allen has been housed since November 2022. A true and accurate copy of the subpoena and request for production are attached as Exhibit A.

7. DOC objects to Mr. Allen’s request for inspection—in particular the request to inspect the “surrounding facility”—because permitting such an inspection would introduce unacceptable security risks at the facility and unduly burden DOC staff to accommodate such a request.

…

Unreasonable and Oppressive Request for Inspection

11. Here, the request that Mr. Allen’s attorneys be permitted to inspect, survey, measure and photograph Westville Correctional Facility—not just the cellblocks, but the “surrounding facility”—is not “reasonably calculated to lead to the discovery of admissible evidence.” T.R. 26(B)(1). In particular, such an inspection does not reasonably relate any cognizable claim or defense. The probable cause affidavit does not allege that there is any connection whatsoever between the murder charges and Westville Correctional Facility. Such an inspection would shed no light on “the existence, description, nature, custody, condition and location of any books, documents, or other tangible things” related to the charges or, other than Mr. Allen himself, “the identity and location of persons having knowledge of any discoverable matter.” T.R. 26(B)(1).

https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/Motion-to-Quash-Subpoena-or-Enter-Protective-Order.pdf-6-27-2023-13.34.25-248611410-B749FAD5-EDAD-48C9-8895-21ED816037CC.pdf

So that order came from Todd Rokita and his Deputy Attorney Generals Ridlen and Deters?
Is that why they are now withdrawing? That's just a dumb question; I'll try again. They are withdrawing all of their representation in this case?

 

[Jurisprudence]

So that order came from Todd Rokita and his Deputy Attorney Generals Ridlen and Deters?
Is that why they are now withdrawing? That's just a dumb question; I'll try again. They are withdrawing all of their representation in this case?

I'm not sure I understand the Q but maybe this will help? The subpoena was served on the prison. The state is in charge of the prison system so that's why your'e seeing the motion to quash being authored by the AG's office. They aren't parties. They were served a subpoena and the state's attorneys (the AG's office) made a motion to get rid of it (quash it) so they wouldn't have to comply. Is that what you were wondering?

 

[zh0r4]

Re: one of Judge Gull’s lawyers, Attorney Matthew Gutwein.

HHC leader Matthew Gutwein resigns under pressure (2020)

HHC leader Matthew Gutwein resigns under pressure

HHC leader Matthew Gutwein's resignation follows IndyStar nursing home investigation and mounting deaths at HHC long-term care facilities

www.indystar.com

Announcing New Partner, Matt Gutwein

Announcing New Partner, Matt Gutwein | Delaney & Delaney LLC

www.delaneylaw.net

 

[sunshineray]

Could Libby and Abby’s families sue Baldwin after the trial for being slack and allowing the crime scene photos of their murdered children to be released on the internet. Or MW?

I'd think the case against MW would be cut and dry. With B or R I suppose if they could prove negligence they might have a case?