IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #170

[girlhasnoname]

I don't think so. This is speculation only but is speculation based on these facts: The defense had no indication there would be a hearing on the matter on 10/19. There was no filing. No notice. No opportunity to prepare, including subpoenaing him. (ETA: Though I suppose it is possible they asked him to come voluntarily in case he was needed. That's always a possibility but I would think this would have been mentioned in the second writ brief filed in yesterday's new action)

jmo

No, Judge Gull advised in the email threads that she would addressing the recent events that have come to light. They knew darn well, AB had representation by his attorney DH.

Don't forget they were ordered to stop working on the case Oct 10th or 12th. They knew.

MOO

 

[Megnut]

(what should I do when I quote your questions?/do I bold and bbm them or? TIA)

bbm

-the date JG's email between JG, P, D where JG put on her LE hat, and ordered LE to arrest and (until they gave the CS photos back) jail the "defense leakers"? Including who she ordered to do this?
I am unsure if this is related to your question, but according to the exchanges emails, October 8, 2023 @ 11:05am, JG responds:

“Good morning Gentlemen,

Thank you for passing this troubling information along to me, I am quite disturbed by this new development. Since Nick has been made aware of this information, I am making some assumptions that I would like a response to:

1. I assume that law enforcement is investigating

2. I assume the "local contact creator", Rick Say, has been interviewed.

3. I assume the individuals named, Aine and Kevin, have been interviewed.

4. I assume law enforcement has demanded the return of the photographs in the possession of Rick Snay, Aine, and Kevin.

5. I assume that Brad and Andy have provided the name of their staff member and the uninvolved third party to Nick for interview by law enforcement.

I recall our communication back in December 2022 regarding an email from Andy to Brad which contained discovery information but was sent to the wrong "Brad" in Andy's address book. Has that individual been interviewed? Could that be the source of the leak?

l am also recalling a bill I received from Brad and Andy for duplication of exhibits by a vendor which I disallowed... is it possible that vendor is involved? Brad and Andy should share the name of that vendor and the date that vendor was hired to Nick and/or law enforcement for investigation as a possible source of the leak.

These local content creators are not journalists and have no right to claim any type of privilege. They should divulge to law enforcement who they got these photographs from to allow law enforcement to continue to investigate. The photographs must be returned to law enforcement. It they refuse to turn them over voluntarily. I will issue an order directing the immediate return or they will be subject to contempt of Court. That contempt will result in an immediate arrest and incarceration until such time as the photographs are returned. This is a drastic measure I should not have to take but will if necessary.

Each of you have numerous staff and assistants helping you with your work. I am also assuming that you all trust those individuals to maintain the integrity of the case and that you are confident none of those individuals are involved.

Please let me know at your earliest convenience what your thoughts are about moving forward.

J. Gull”

-the date Hennessey filed temp appearance repping Baldwin and filed a memo - was it 10/18?

I am unsure if things are being filed on mycase later than the date they are filed? (It also seems, as of right now, some stuff that was up is now down or either I’m doing it wrong @FrostedGlass ?)
Either way, Hennessy filed a PRAECIPE and MOTION TO RECONSIDER (linked below) on 10/27/2023. The same day, the docket had Motion to Reconsider, Praecipe, and Appearance Filed (pic of docket activity that day attached below). Does this mean Hennessy’s appearance was filed on 10/27?

PRAECIPE
Attorney Hennessy, filed 10/27/2023
Adobe Acrobat

MOTION TO RECONSIDER
Hennessy, filed 10/27/2023
Adobe Acrobat

-MW's timeline from Rozzi's Oct 12th letter (e.g. when did MW confess to Baldwin?, timeframe MW lawyered up, MW's affidavit date, when was MW affidavit filed w/ Court (by H or Rozzi, iirc)).

Per Rozzi’s 10/12 letter:
-Monday, October 9, 2023 4:00PM MW confessed to Balwin.
-October 9, 2023 4:48PM Baldwin emailed Rozzi abt the leak.
-October 10, 2023 abt 5PM Rozzi saw the email for the first time and called AB.
-October 11, 2023, afternoon, NM & JG were informed per the letter on Oct 12 “We agreed that we needed to disclose these facts to Nick, immediately, which we did. This occurred by way of a phone call with Nick just minutes before we spoke with you yesterday afternoon.”
-Between Oct 9-12, MW lawyered up.
-October 18, 2023 MW affidavit filed by Attorney Huntzinger.

-Date MS notifies ISP Holeman of receiving leak
October 5, 2023.

-Date 10/2-ish from Rozzi's letter timeline when D heard rumblings of leak?
October 2, 2023 “During the week of October 2nd the Defense became aware of a gentleman in Texas who had claimed that crime scene photos had been leaked and that Andy was the party who leaked the photos. Naturally, this called for some immediate disclosure. Andy and I discussed the matter and believed that it was important to communicate our concerns with the Prosecutor and Court.”

Idk the other dates, is there a way to search WS for when their shaming podcast originally aired?

From above:

I will issue an order directing the immediate return or they will be subject to contempt of Court. That contempt will result in an immediate arrest and incarceration until such time as the photographs are returned. This is a drastic measure I should not have to take but will if necessary.

Just how exactly does one satisfy this bar? Sure, in 1927. Return the photos. Pony express. But return digital images.... at once? Symbolic.... zip the email right to the judge. But there's nothing to stop one from retaining copies.

I suppose it's all a big pretty, pretty please. The images should never have been available, viewed, screenshotted, shared soooooooo pretty pretty please let the leak stop at you.

Those images are seared into hard drives, if not minds' eyes. Seems kind of like asking a river to flow back to the beginning and give its water back.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

No, Judge Gull advised in the email threads that she would addressing the recent events that have come to light. They knew darn well, AB had representation by his attorney DH.

Don't forget they were ordered to stop working on the case Oct 10th or 12th. They knew.

MOO

Doesn't that beg the question? Why didn't RA have actual representation at that hearing? Not the ones the judge ordered to cease and desist but an emergency appointment?

 

[girlhasnoname]

This is the exact quote from the email from McLeland Oct 12 4:07AM:

“As part of the investigation, an ISP detective went to the Air Force Base in Fort Wayne to interview RF on Tuesday afternoon to get a statement from him about the leaked information. The goal was to 1) gather the photos that he had and make sure they were deleted from his phone and 2) find out who gave him the photos and who he gave the photos to.

RF met with the ISP detective but refused to answer any questions and stated that he wanted an attorney. Soon after that we had our phone conference between the 4 of us. At 10:00 P.M. last night, RF committed suicide. One self inflicted gun shot wound. He is married and has a teenage daughter. The initial information that I have is that his wife stated that he was worried sick about being in this situation and the last info that I have is that R stated to his wife that if I just be honest or "come clean" about where I got the photos I will be ok.”

If he didn’t talk and he immediately asked for a lawyer, how did they “2) find out who gave him the photos and who he gave the photos to.”?

Forensic analysis of his computer and phone would tell exactly who and when the pictures were sent by.

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Tysm! I cannot find these 10/27 filings on mycase today, are they still up on your side? (In that case I am searching incorrectly)

They are. I just put the case # in and then scroll down, and scroll down... until I get to the date. Sometimes I do a word search using ctrl F; is that what you were doing?

10/27/2023	Motion to Reconsider Motion to Reconsider Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 10/27/2023
10/27/2023	Praecipe for Transcript Filed Praecipe Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 10/27/2023
10/27/2023	Appearance Filed Notice of Appearance For Party: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 10/27/2023

 

[girlhasnoname]

Doesn't that beg the question? Why didn't RA have actual representation at that hearing? Not the ones the judge ordered to cease and desist but an emergency appointment?

Judge Gull would have had to held the meeting with the attorneys of record for withdrawal or recusal before she could appoint a new Defense Team. Until after the meeting of the 19th Rozzi and Baldwin were still attorneys of record for RA.

MOO

 

[zh0r4]

They are. I just put the case # in and then scroll down, and scroll down... until I get to the date. Sometimes I do a word search using ctrl F; is that what you were doing?

10/27/2023	Motion to Reconsider Motion to Reconsider Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 10/27/2023
10/27/2023	Praecipe for Transcript Filed Praecipe Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 10/27/2023
10/27/2023	Appearance Filed Notice of Appearance For Party: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 10/27/2023

I was searching “Hennessy” then “Allen” under name. Serious question: How do I find case numbers from docs I’m unsure have been filed? Lol. TIA- I want to learn how to search the docket properly!

 

[everlearning]

I need help understanding something. I just read in exhibit T transcript where Rozzi says they verbally withdrew as a strategic move to protect their client and to avoid the "lashing" that was about to take place in open court. So, did they strategically withdraw, or did she remove them? Thanks for helping me understand

 

[girlhasnoname]

Per MS podcast they looked into the chain of individuals that had leaked the photos through Facebook messenger. This evidence had been turned over to LE during a formal interview on 10/9.
They had evidence that MW had leaked the photos to RF and RF had leaked the photos to Mark ( IMO in Texas) and othe individuals. Mark sent the photos to MS along with Facebook messenger chain.
What they didn’t know is who else RF leaked photos to, and if he had any involvement with defense or in the plan to steal and distribute the photos.

I'd wager that they now know exactly where and when those images were received and who they were sent on to. It was a grave enough situation that the man would actually kill himself. That speaks volumes to me instead of some little leak that was passed on.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Why not? Many online case followers seem to have no problem believing this - all one needs to do is read across various social media sites devoted to discussions regarding this case to realize this theory seems quite valid to many followers from varied professions!

Everyone has an opinion and I'd say the majority I've read online about RA, his sneaky former Defense team and their fan fit Memo in support of Franks Hearing believe that they are delusional at best and conspiracy stirrers at worst.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Has Mark (C) not been officially named? But RF and MW were named? Why is MC not being named and held accountable for circulating these photos?

We aren't privy to the findings of the ISP investigation, I'd bet they are all going to face some charges at some point. What they did was an illegal act, not to add a perverse one as well.

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

@zh0r4
You can search by name to see how many cases a person has.
If you're looking for the document pdfs, you won't find them, other than the ones in the judges' doc dump. We can only see what I've shown you (and you showed me)

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

 

[girlhasnoname]

I agree that the judge has been slow as molasses and I’ve griped about it before. The void caused by her slowness was filled by nonsense from the defense.
The ex-defense admitted all of this was their strategy. They have succeeded in vilifying everyone except themselves. They are not the victims here. They do not deserve the hero worship they are receiving.

Their unprofessionalism and misconduct are the reason we are even having this debate at all right now.

MOO

 

[Jurisprudence]

I think a judge has the right to sanction public defenders, including removing them in cases of gross negligence and/or the perception there of.

Agree. They can sanction. Remove? Depends on state law. The attorneys who filed the brief yesterday said not an option in Indiana. (Brief 2)

I can't think of a time an accused murderer has been allowed into chambers. Is that a thing????? Seems dangerous, ill-advised.... and a confidentiality nightmare. How many baliffs and deputies would that require, to flank one individual?

Me either. But, I also can't think of a time where I've ever heard of something like this happening. RA's presence in chambers, which would be odd I agree, would be a non-issue if there was a subsequent hearing scheduled. I realize this sounds like a broken record but I hope people can start to see just how significant an impact that one decision had. It was huge imo.

Like nearly every sudden arraignment, why wasn't RA assigned The Next Available Public Defender, to represent his best interest in chambers?

Good question. Why wasn't he assigned attorneys from his county?

[sbm]

jmo

 

[Emma Peel]

(what should I do when I quote your questions?/do I bold and bbm them or? TIA)

bbm

-the date JG's email between JG, P, D where JG put on her LE hat, and ordered LE to arrest and (until they gave the CS photos back) jail the "defense leakers"? Including who she ordered to do this?
I am unsure if this is related to your question, but according to the exchanges emails, October 8, 2023 @ 11:05am, JG responds:

“Good morning Gentlemen,

Thank you for passing this troubling information along to me, I am quite disturbed by this new development. Since Nick has been made aware of this information, I am making some assumptions that I would like a response to:

1. I assume that law enforcement is investigating

2. I assume the "local contact creator", Rick Say, has been interviewed.

3. I assume the individuals named, Aine and Kevin, have been interviewed.

4. I assume law enforcement has demanded the return of the photographs in the possession of Rick Snay, Aine, and Kevin.

5. I assume that Brad and Andy have provided the name of their staff member and the uninvolved third party to Nick for interview by law enforcement.

I recall our communication back in December 2022 regarding an email from Andy to Brad which contained discovery information but was sent to the wrong "Brad" in Andy's address book. Has that individual been interviewed? Could that be the source of the leak?

l am also recalling a bill I received from Brad and Andy for duplication of exhibits by a vendor which I disallowed... is it possible that vendor is involved? Brad and Andy should share the name of that vendor and the date that vendor was hired to Nick and/or law enforcement for investigation as a possible source of the leak.

These local content creators are not journalists and have no right to claim any type of privilege. They should divulge to law enforcement who they got these photographs from to allow law enforcement to continue to investigate. The photographs must be returned to law enforcement. It they refuse to turn them over voluntarily. I will issue an order directing the immediate return or they will be subject to contempt of Court. That contempt will result in an immediate arrest and incarceration until such time as the photographs are returned. This is a drastic measure I should not have to take but will if necessary.

Each of you have numerous staff and assistants helping you with your work. I am also assuming that you all trust those individuals to maintain the integrity of the case and that you are confident none of those individuals are involved.

Please let me know at your earliest convenience what your thoughts are about moving forward.

J. Gull”

-the date Hennessey filed temp appearance repping Baldwin and filed a memo - was it 10/18?

I am unsure if things are being filed on mycase later than the date they are filed? (It also seems, as of right now, some stuff that was up is now down or either I’m doing it wrong @FrostedGlass ?)
Either way, Hennessy filed a PRAECIPE and MOTION TO RECONSIDER (linked below) on 10/27/2023. The same day, the docket had Motion to Reconsider, Praecipe, and Appearance Filed (pic of docket activity that day attached below). Does this mean Hennessy’s appearance was filed on 10/27?

PRAECIPE
Attorney Hennessy, filed 10/27/2023
Adobe Acrobat

MOTION TO RECONSIDER
Hennessy, filed 10/27/2023
Adobe Acrobat

-MW's timeline from Rozzi's Oct 12th letter (e.g. when did MW confess to Baldwin?, timeframe MW lawyered up, MW's affidavit date, when was MW affidavit filed w/ Court (by H or Rozzi, iirc)).

Per Rozzi’s 10/12 letter:
-Monday, October 9, 2023 4:00PM MW confessed to Balwin.
-October 9, 2023 4:48PM Baldwin emailed Rozzi abt the leak.
-October 10, 2023 abt 5PM Rozzi saw the email for the first time and called AB.
-October 11, 2023, afternoon, NM & JG were informed per the letter on Oct 12 “We agreed that we needed to disclose these facts to Nick, immediately, which we did. This occurred by way of a phone call with Nick just minutes before we spoke with you yesterday afternoon.”
-Between Oct 9-12, MW lawyered up.
-October 18, 2023 MW affidavit filed by Attorney Huntzinger.

-Date MS notifies ISP Holeman of receiving leak
October 5, 2023.

-Date 10/2-ish from Rozzi's letter timeline when D heard rumblings of leak?
October 2, 2023 “During the week of October 2nd the Defense became aware of a gentleman in Texas who had claimed that crime scene photos had been leaked and that Andy was the party who leaked the photos. Naturally, this called for some immediate disclosure. Andy and I discussed the matter and believed that it was important to communicate our concerns with the Prosecutor and Court.”

Idk the other dates, is there a way to search WS for when their shaming podcast originally aired?

Thank you.
Maybe Keyword "Mark" in this thread? MS kept naming "Mark", "M", "R" as leakers.
The link to the MS webcast (although this is the 2nd take on the webcast; it was edited though due to negative feedback.) Webcast dates it as the 10/14 episode. I'm thinking that may still be the MS podcast original date in spite of editing a day later ...

ETA: oops forgot the linkie - you'll need to invest in some ear protection for this one.
The Delphi Murders: Leaked Crime Scene Photographs

 

[photographer4]

No, unless I left my car unlocked w/keys in the ignition.

Leaving sealed trial documents in an unlocked unsupervised room is negligent. JMO

I disagree and re-assert that if lawyer was in his own office, on a call or in a mtg, and left the conference room open and or unlocked, then he was not negligent. Do you mean to suggest that he should lock the door behind him before taking a call a room over? Surely not. Especially if he was not anticipating the arrival of MW - which, I don't believe we've been told - I don't even know if anyone has asked MW / the lawyer that question. Did he just pop by or was he an expected guest arriving at a prescribed date and time? We do not know how long he was alone in the room either. Was he in there for 30 minutes unnoticed by his friend? Two minutes? It appears the MW CONFESSED to the lawyer his misconduct and theft and forwarding of the CS photos -- so it doesn't appear that the lawyer was even aware his friend had entered the conference room at all until several weeks later! This isn't his fault necessarily. This is a bad friend / former colleague gone rogue for whatever reason and he should be held accountable. That isn't to say the lawyers have done nothing wrong or questionable at all throughout the case to now, but this particular issue? Not his fault I don't think (based on information we have available at this time).

 

[zh0r4]

Thank you.
Maybe Keyword "Mark" in this thread? MS kept naming "Mark", "M", "R" as leakers.
The link to the MS webcast (although this is the 2nd take on the webcast; it was edited though due to negative feedback.) Webcast dates it as the 10/14 episode. I'm thinking that may still be the MS podcast original date in spite of editing a day later ...

ETA: oops forgot the linkie - you'll need to invest in some ear protection for this one.
The Delphi Murders: Leaked Crime Scene Photographs

Thank you @Emma Peel

So it appears the Podcast (specifically MS) re: the leaks:
October 14, 2023

Post in thread 'IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #168'
Post in thread 'IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #168'

Also,

October 5 MS: “The Delphi Murders: Discussing the Franks Memorandum with the Hoosier Public Defender”

Post in thread 'IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #167'

 

[duckcat]

This is a bit long but I’m working on a timeline to piece events together and pulled some from another sleuther who posted earlier. This may not be popular to all but from my POV there appears to be a distinct correlation to BW’s legal issues as far as RA’s timeline goes since his arrest. BW’s stuff is complex but I do find him credible.

• 8/4/22 - BW is summoned for non-payment of child support. Becomes an ongoing dispute with the former mayor of Delphi, SE, who now works on the prosecution in RA’s case. BW claimed (and still claims) SE is actually the child’s father.
• 10/28/22 - RA is arrested
• 11/2/22 - Judge Diener (also involved with BW’s case, but I’m not sure if relevant) recuses himself from RA’s case. Judge Gull is appointed.
• 11/?/22 - Baldwin contacts BW asking if he would testify during the murder trial about his 2019 abuse from CC and McLeland allegedly planting evidence.
• 12/?/22 - Thumb drive is leaked to BW from Baldwins office
• 4/9/23 - search warrant issued at BW’s residence over over child payment dispute. He claims illegal search. His father’s gun is found.
• 4/28/23 - Felony charges are filed against BW because his father’s gun was found during search, has a felon record.
• 7/7/23 - BW files a tort claim against Delphi police department, Flora Town Council, Sheriff Liggett, Andrew Baldwin and others related to the 4/9 incident
• 8/?/23 - D is prepping materials for depositions including CS pics
• 8/?/23 - MW takes pics of the CS pics
• 8/8/23 - Sheriff Liggett deposition, learns D is interested in Odin/Rushville connections
• 8/?/23 - Holeman deposition
• (the above August events could be in a different order)
• 8/13/22 +/- a few days - BW and MR sharing information with each other on FB messenger including the leaked Discovery thumb drive, some discussion about BW’s knowledge of Odinism and locals, various rumors, BWs lawsuit. Mentions that he doesn’t trust Baldwin. MR thinks RA is involved BW doesn’t.
• 8/22/23 - warrant for BW’s arrest for violating terms of release (unclear if he ends up in jail at this point?)
• 8/25/23 - discovery thumbdrive posted on FB and screenshots shared on r/ delphitrial
• 8/26/23 - u/dreadpirate33 (MR) begins posting on r/delphitrial
• Week of 8/28/23 - Holeman requests meeting with Click
• Week of 9/4/23 - Click meets with Holeman and another detective
• 9/?/23 - Click submits affidavit regarding the meeting "I believe the interview was an attempt by them to clean up their loose ends"
• 9/18/23 - D file Franks Memo, note they are still waiting for videos of interviews of P1 and P2 and going to pick up another drop of discovery that day.
• 9/25/23 - Todd Click statement that no one in LE believes the murders were a ritual sacrifice
• 9/26/23 - State responds to Frank's memo, confirms guards wore Odin patches, continues to oppose broadcasting
• 9/28/23 - BW launches funding campaign for help with legal fees. BW recently received some of his payout from his lawsuit and seems to have used it all fighting these new charges.
• 10/2/23 - D moves for discovery deadline in RA case
• 10/4/23 - D informs NM & JG they intend on going to trial on 1/8/24
• 10/4/23 - last comment activity from dreadpirate33 (MR)
• 10/4/23 - BW posts now deleted YouTube video, Delphi the Beginning pt. 2 showing screenshots of a convo with MR from August.
• 10/5/23 - MS receive CS pics and alert Holeman
• 10/6/23 - youtuber posts he has also rec'd photos from anon email
• 10/6/23 - search warrant executed at BW’s residence
• 10/8/23 - LE at home of MW, youtuber says he contacted Holeman and was told to delete pics and not asked the email that sent them
• 10/9/23 - MW informs Baldwin about his role in the leak at his office
• 10/10/23 - D/NM/JG state suggests disqualification of defense counsel. JG indicates she is leaning toward disqualification. NM doesn't oppose motion for discovery, JG sets discovery deadline at
• 10/11/23 - ISP try to interview RF
• 10/11/23 - 911 calls re: RF death
• 10/11/23 - BW back in jail for violating terms of release
• 10/12/23 - NM alerts JG/D of death of RF by suicide and statements to wife. JG tells D to stop working on the case. BR submits letter opposing disqualification. JG sets hearing date for 10/19/23 re: "other matters which have recently arisen".
• 10/17/23 - JG orders allowing media recording of the 10/19 hearing for the first time.
• 10/18/23 - affidavit written by MW filed by defense
• 10/19/23 - JG gives D "choice" to withdraw or be publicly shamed and then disqualified. AB orally withdraws, BR says he will submit in writing. JG asks them to return discovery. At hearing JG announces they withdrew and tells media she will appoint new counsel.
• 10/20/23 - BW indigent, his hired lawyer resigns, is assigned Kurtis Fouts as his public defender, the former judge who was forced to resign over the escort video

 

[katydid23]

Gah we should be discussing the search warrant and bullet evidence rather than rollercoaster of secrecy, defense attorneys’ attorneys and Judge’s attorney.

And that is exactly why the defense may have pulled all of these shenanigans. Looks like it's turning out exactly like they wanted it to.

They can now set rid of that pesky judge that tried to hold them accountable for their negligence and jump back in the driver's seat of the clown car.

 

[zh0r4]

Thank you @Emma Peel

So it appears the Podcast (specifically MS) re: the leaks:
October 14, 2023

Post in thread 'IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #168'
Post in thread 'IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #168'

Also,

October 5 MS: “The Delphi Murders: Discussing the Franks Memorandum with the Hoosier Public Defender”

Post in thread 'IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #167'

To add the secret chamber hearing where the media reported the D quit, was 5 days after the MS podcast abt the leaks, on October 19.

October 14-MS podcast re: leaks by the D
October 19-hearing where D quits/DQ’d for gross negligence by JG

When did MS report the leak to LE? October 5? Do they usually put out 1 podcast a week, or do they release them as info comes in?