Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #108

[susiQ]

Are all of the Renner interviews able to be discussed on here, does anyone know? I know some have been but am not sure. He did about 10 interviews altogether. I have seen the Kelsie ones discussed, and the Sheriff one but wondered if the others can be linked and discussed too, specifically the one with Abbey's mum.

JMO but they should be. If they allow GH's why not his? The family was obviously on board with doing them. I would check with a Mod though.

 

[susiQ]

My theory, at this time, is that the murder was targeted and that Libby was the intended target. I also believe it was a crime of opportunity in that had the circumstances in and around the bridge not been conducive to committing the crime and getting away with it that day (too many people around) he would have abandoned his plan and waited for another opportunity. I believe he knew they would be there, either serendipitously or by having lured Libby there and was prepared with whatever implements he needed to subdue them. I understand that it has been stated that it was a "last minute" thing, but I highly doubt this. Many of us older gals will remember "manipulating" circumstances to fit our intentions around that age. Even raising three boys, there were some stories I didn't hear until they were well into their 20's. Nothing criminal, of course, some even hilarious, but dangerous to their person I am grateful nothing serious ever resulted from their escapades. Unfortunately, Snapchat is one of many apps that allow for clandestine communications that are difficult to trace. Parents need to educate themselves and do everything within their power to educate their children of the dangers inherent in using these apps. Not at all judging, JMHO.

 

[Justice101]

deleted

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

Are all of the Renner interviews able to be discussed on here, does anyone know? I know some have been but am not sure. He did about 10 interviews altogether. I have seen the Kelsie ones discussed, and the Sheriff one but wondered if the others can be linked and discussed too, specifically the one with Abbey's mum.

ETA self reported to ask the question.

Ive been asking Tricia re Renner vids for a while. I know she has looked into it but no word back yet. Will ask if any progress

 

[CSIDreamer]

My theory, at this time, is that the murder was targeted and that Libby was the intended target. I also believe it was a crime of opportunity in that had the circumstances in and around the bridge not been conducive to committing the crime and getting away with it that day (too many people around) he would have abandoned his plan and waited for another opportunity. I believe he knew they would be there, either serendipitously or by having lured Libby there and was prepared with whatever implements he needed to subdue them. I understand that it has been stated that it was a "last minute" thing, but I highly doubt this. Many of us older gals will remember "manipulating" circumstances to fit our intentions around that age. Even raising three boys, there were some stories I didn't hear until they were well into their 20's. Nothing criminal, of course, some even hilarious, but dangerous to their person I am grateful nothing serious ever resulted from their escapades. Unfortunately, Snapchat is one of many apps that allow for clandestine communications that are difficult to trace. Parents need to educate themselves and do everything within their power to educate their children of the dangers inherent in using these apps. Not at all judging, JMHO.

I'm curious how you arrived at the conclusion Libhy was the target, rather than Abby. I've missed a bunch of early threads but I've seen this thought a few times. What leads you to that idea?

 

[soylattesandsleuthing]

My theory, at this time, is that the murder was targeted and that Libby was the intended target. I also believe it was a crime of opportunity in that had the circumstances in and around the bridge not been conducive to committing the crime and getting away with it that day (too many people around) he would have abandoned his plan and waited for another opportunity. I believe he knew they would be there, either serendipitously or by having lured Libby there and was prepared with whatever implements he needed to subdue them. I understand that it has been stated that it was a "last minute" thing, but I highly doubt this. Many of us older gals will remember "manipulating" circumstances to fit our intentions around that age. Even raising three boys, there were some stories I didn't hear until they were well into their 20's. Nothing criminal, of course, some even hilarious, but dangerous to their person I am grateful nothing serious ever resulted from their escapades. Unfortunately, Snapchat is one of many apps that allow for clandestine communications that are difficult to trace. Parents need to educate themselves and do everything within their power to educate their children of the dangers inherent in using these apps. Not at all judging, JMHO.

I think this is a pretty solid theory as to what happened that day.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Since Abby and Libby had an open casket viewing and funeral the wounds must not have been too bad.

A mortician wrote the following:

“The majority of people who come into our home have at least one open-casket viewing, even for those who choose cremation. This can present a problem because of the staggering number of very violent ways you can die. We had a homicide victim who had been stabbed over a dozen times and then set on fire. We’ve had a depressing number of people with self-inflicted gunshot wounds to the head and chest. I’ve even dealt with a decapitation. And, with very few exceptions, they’ve all had open caskets.

Restoration is as much an art form as it is a science, and with a good mortician, there's very little that can't be fixed. We have a wide range of tools at our disposal, depending on what needs to be done. Some of the stuff is pretty basic, like covering bruises and cuts with wax and cosmetics. If the person had heavy injuries to their head, we can rebuild large portions of their skull using a special type of putty, wax, or plaster of Paris. We can reattach severed limbs using special materials to rebuild the damaged bone and muscle.

So for instance, to fix a decapitation, you use a wooden dowel to rejoin the head and body, then suture the neck back together. With a little wax and cosmetics, they can even wear a normal shirt or dress.”

https://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1368-5-horrifying-truths-about-funeral-homes-from-undertaker.html

 

[HEY YOU!]

Is it true that Libby reset her phone to factory settings the night before the murders?

 

[JudgeJudi]

Is it true that Libby reset her phone to factory settings the night before the murders?

Not the night before. This is from Becky's interview with Gray Hughes:

"Now I don’t remember a lot of the walking because at that point in time I called AT&T because Libby had reset her phone the week before because it kept glitching, it just kept catching, it kept freezing up on her. So she reset the phone to factory reset, but when she did that, she didn’t reset some of the different apps."

 

[susiQ]

I'm curious how you arrived at the conclusion Libhy was the target, rather than Abby. I've missed a bunch of early threads but I've seen this thought a few times. What leads you to that idea?

Snapchat.

 

[PaulaDC]

The 13th of Feb. is close enough to be a trigger. I have recently broken up friends that start lamenting months prior to Feb because of the holiday. It depresses them. Imagine now if you feel rejected, filled with rage? It could indeed be a trigger and took it out on the first victims he found.

My daughter was born on Valentine's Day so I'm pretty attuned to catching others with this birthdate. Something for you to ponder......moo

 

[tresir2012]

Not the night before. This is from Becky's interview with Gray Hughes:

"Now I don’t remember a lot of the walking because at that point in time I called AT&T because Libby had reset her phone the week before because it kept glitching, it just kept catching, it kept freezing up on her. So she reset the phone to factory reset, but when she did that, she didn’t reset some of the different apps."

"she didn't reset some of the different apps". Could that mean that some of her apps were then open to view by everyone?

 

[tresir2012]

A mortician wrote the following:

“The majority of people who come into our home have at least one open-casket viewing, even for those who choose cremation. This can present a problem because of the staggering number of very violent ways you can die. We had a homicide victim who had been stabbed over a dozen times and then set on fire. We’ve had a depressing number of people with self-inflicted gunshot wounds to the head and chest. I’ve even dealt with a decapitation. And, with very few exceptions, they’ve all had open caskets.

Restoration is as much an art form as it is a science, and with a good mortician, there's very little that can't be fixed. We have a wide range of tools at our disposal, depending on what needs to be done. Some of the stuff is pretty basic, like covering bruises and cuts with wax and cosmetics. If the person had heavy injuries to their head, we can rebuild large portions of their skull using a special type of putty, wax, or plaster of Paris. We can reattach severed limbs using special materials to rebuild the damaged bone and muscle.

So for instance, to fix a decapitation, you use a wooden dowel to rejoin the head and body, then suture the neck back together. With a little wax and cosmetics, they can even wear a normal shirt or dress.”

https://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1368-5-horrifying-truths-about-funeral-homes-from-undertaker.html

Thanks for the info, but I wish I hadn't read it really. :-(

 

[Boxer]

MOO very possible BG knew them, but they did not know him. He is older and out of normal clothes context. Maybe with time they could have placed him or did recognize before their ends.
The most likely breach to their SM is by friends and/or family. It happens at school frequently, some one borrows or observes, overhears or guesses passwords.

"she didn't reset some of the different apps". Could that mean that some of her apps were then open to view by everyone?

 

[JnRyan]

MOO very possible BG knew them, but they did not know him. He is older and out of normal clothes context. Maybe with time they could have placed him or did recognize before their ends.
The most likely breach to their SM is by friends and/or family. It happens at school frequently, some one borrows or observes, overhears or guesses passwords.

That is a possible scenario I've considered. If Liberty knew him it is likely she would said his name and LE would have that as part of the recording. Even if Abigail didn't know Liberty was recording with her phone she might have said something. If they recognized him from somewhere and remembered, Liberty might have said something to the effect, "Weren't you the guy we saw at _____ on [e.g., last week or yesterday]? I believe if either of them had seen him before they either didn't know or couldn't remember his name. But I tend to believe this guy might have been out hunting and they just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[Cryptic]

MOO very possible BG knew them, but they did not know him.

I support this with a targeted scenario. The publically available information suggests that the victims were sufficiently alarmed by BG that they took his photograph, but apparently not so alarmed that they refused his command or asked for an explanation.

This possibility supports the possibility that BG knew them, but they were only partially familiar with him. As he got closer, they recognized him as say, the acquaintance of our friend “F”, or “the relative of acquaintance “A”.

Such possibilities could support a scenario of:

- Victims were lured to the bridge to meet person “P”. They were supposed to provide information, make a promise, make an apology, or though more unlikely make a payment or accept an exchange.

- The victims see BG approaching. They get concerned as they were expecting person “P”. They take his picture.

- They then partially recognize BG as the un-named "friend of a friend". BG directs them down the hill to complete the discussion, transaction etc. Maybe BG states that he is a stand in for “P”…. .

 

[Goggy29]

Snapchat.

Can you elaborate?

Thanks

 

[Torch Carrier]

Why all the speculation about knowledge of sex crimes? Why are some impugning the good names of the victims' families?

Who is impuning good names? I haven't noticed anyone naming any names at all so this question confuses me.

 

[sunshineray]

That is a confusing, misleading statement. When I first read it I thought how would anybody know how they were really left if the search area wasn’t secure during the night. Then I read two more posts with explanations before I think I understand what he was trying to say. Hopefully the person who was supposed to get that message understood.

He just meant that what evil he did to their bodies, their souls are blissful now. I knew exactly what he meant. I'm sorry that I paraphased it poorly.

 

[susiQ]

Can you elaborate?

Thanks

Well, I believe Snapchat figured into this crime. LG was known to use this app. It is difficult if not impossible to trace those communications as they disappear. I believe LG perhaps communicated with the killer or the killer knew through her Snapchat posts that she would be at the bridge that afternoon sometime.

I'm going to post a video from Youtube about Snapchat. I haven't heard back from a mod about it yet, but I feel it is pertinent in understanding that the age our children and my grandchildren are living in is a very dangerous one. It does not involve this case but it is also not off topic given the situation that may have come about. I found it rather scary. If not allowed, sorry, Mods please remove.

ed:gr