Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #110

[Theforeigner]

There was a young charismatic traveling pastor that came to the UMC about 2015(?)

Liberty had the ad for him as her banner on one of her seldom or unused SM accounts.
Does anyone remember this, I can't it find again.

Anyone have the name of that "young charismatic traveling pastor that came to the UMC about 2015" ?

 

[TheVisual]

There was a young charismatic traveling pastor that came to the UMC about 2015(?)
Liberty had the ad for him as her banner on one of her seldom or unused SM accounts.
Does anyone remember this, I can't it find again.

He is in deep doodoo all on his own. Can't put his name out there.(TOS) I even suspected him myself!

 

[HEY YOU!]

The "twist" was mentioned almost right off the bat after the murders. Would DNA analysis been available that soon after?

Then I am guessing the murders were caught on audio.

 

[Boxer]

Liberty German (@libby1227) on Twitter

Thank you.

 

[x_files]

It reminds me of Twin Peaks too.

strange murders of young teens in a small seemingly "normal" smalltown. Almost Norman Rockwell, until you lift up the stone to reveal it's ugly underbelly. yep...

 

[Cutiekitty]

We don't know, they could have pulled them in to interview again and again...or until they lawyered up. It's not like in the Rhoden case where LE made it known who they were interested in and it took them over two years to raid properties and do that.

This case is so odd in that there's video and audio of the killer yet nothing made public about an investigative direction except killer is local and hiding in plain sight.

GH said something else in that cemetery video that was interesting. I'm paraphrasing, he said the FBI being called in right away was definitely because local LE thought serial type killings right away. The way in which the crime scene was, the condition of the bodies, the way scene was set up and left was not just murders, boom your dead or sexual assaults and then killing. I think I have to agree with that.

An FBI agent was in town and offered assistance/resources was my understanding. It’s not unusual at all for the FBI to get involved in a case like this right from the get to. Varying levels of LE tend to respond in instances like this. It’s just what happens.

We had a child abduction in my area around the same time as this and the FBI, state and local LE were involved from the start. The FBI didn’t necessarily stay involved because it wasn’t a federal crime, but they made resources available if needed.

 

[Cutiekitty]

I also think in a small town where the police chief is so sympathetic to the family, if they have sights on someone near/close to the family, they will not move forward until they are 1000% sure - DNA a slam dunk, alibi completely busted open - in order to protect the family. Also for legal reasons considering trial requirements.

Yep

 

[Cutiekitty]

Doesn't FB keep everything for all time?

I doubt it. I know it’s been brought up in the news that they keep info that was supposed to have been deleted, but I seriously doubt they keep all info (posts, photos, videos, etc....). The volume of data would be immense and the bang wouldn’t be worth the buck. I wouldn’t doubt they keep personal info on former users and sell it though. JMO

They are also not exactly LE friendly. Most SM companies aren’t. Just take a look at their LE guidelines.

 

[sunshineray]

Oh really? I missed that but I was fast forwarding and just reading transcript on screen. So he was PM ing with Etter????

I don't know if it ever happened but the person he was asking suggested it

 

[BNA]

Wait though...the timing is actually spot on. If FSG saw BG at 2:52 a couple meters north of the meetup spot, than if I'm understanding that correctly, that's basically on the road right by the trailhead the girls were dropped off at. I measured (yes, more map measuring) the distance from the cemetery to the trailhead and it was around 1900 feet, or about a 10 min. walk. So if the witness saw BG leaving the cemetery around 2:42, and we ignore GH's theory that he walked east, and he walked west instead, that puts him at the trailhead at 2:52 (FSG's first sighting). If BG actually got back on the trail to head back to the CPS lot, instead of taking the road, that's about another 1900 feet (10 min. walk) to the FB trailhead area. That puts him there at 3:02 (FSG's second sighting). D*mn it!

Your measurements seem to be helping here. Nice work.

If FSG and BG are two different people, an important witness was left alive.

 

[gitana1]

@gitana1 you were on the Etter thread with us in the beginning graciously answering some legal questions for us pertaining to DNA.

Gosh my brain is gone! Are you sure?

 

[moonlessnight]

agree. and yet, I have another theory that conflicts with this that cannot be explained away yet, either.

That is what I'm thinking. Plus BG left the phone where his alibi was no tracking it. Plus I think BG had a burner phone so he could be in contact. Also thinking motive is either one of the girls was sexually assaulted or knew about drug sales/use and was going to come forward and 'tell' or was pregnant and keeping baby. I think it was likely that they were killed to silence them. I think BG knew his life was ruined (or his son's life) if the truth came out. The perp may have had military or law enforcement aspirations and knew is future was over if the truth came out. Just a thought.

 

[Boxer]

Wait though...the timing is actually spot on. If FSG saw BG at 2:52 a couple meters north of the meetup spot, than if I'm understanding that correctly, that's basically on the road right by the trailhead the girls were dropped off at. I measured (yes, more map measuring) the distance from the cemetery to the trailhead and it was around 1900 feet, or about a 10 min. walk. So if the witness saw BG leaving the cemetery around 2:42, and we ignore GH's theory that he walked east, and he walked west instead, that puts him at the trailhead at 2:52 (FSG's first sighting). If BG actually got back on the trail to head back to the CPS lot, instead of taking the road, that's about another 1900 feet (10 min. walk) to the FB trailhead area. That puts him there at 3:02 (FSG's second sighting). D*mn it!

MOO FSG was at the Mears Parking entrance at 3:14 since he ran into DG at 3:14.

 

[Howcanppldosuch]

I think we have pretty much worked out that the murders happened in a 15 minute window based on family and GH times provided between 2.30 and 2.47 or so, haven't we?

Wow. If 15 mins, starting at pic to point where found took some time. How long do you estimate it took to walk from photo site to remains site? Doesn’t sound like to me to be enough time to control one girl and SA the other, or both? No SA??

Edit to correct some auto corrects lol

 

[Falling Down]

Hmmm interesting list. Searching the train tracks - do you know if that was near Anderson's terminal or somewhere else? Could he have jumped on an Anderson's grain freight train? Or even have hitched a lift from a lorry driver delivering to Anderson's. MOO.

I pondered the Andersons terminal early on. IIRC, it was not active that week, mainly due to the time of year. You can search their schedules, for each of their operations, on their site.

When I drove through there 2 years ago, along IN 25 and (IIRC) U.S. 24 the main NSRR line had a fast-moving freight on it. First weekend in August. I clocked it at 62 MPH, and they move fast, although not quite that fast, through the crossing on the north side of Delphi. I could hear the horns blaring when I was at the cemetery.

So Andersons takes deliveries of various grains and their byproducts at that terminal, and then sends them out by rail. I don't know if there are any transfers to trucks at that site. When there are stretches of inactivity, it's my understanding no one is there at that terminal.

It's also my understanding there was no activity at the Delphi terminal the day of the murders. So there would have been no truck and other vehicle traffic in and out of there. It would have been desolate and peaceful along C.R. 300, same as during my visit two years ago.

-FD

 

[moonlessnight]

I'm kind of laughing at this idea, but kind of not. Here's something we haven't speculated on regarding what is in front of BG's face/neck. This one is orange but it comes in green, and some people make their own. Could there be a video of the attack on some dark-website somewhere? Is that the twist?

ETA - and it's waterproof

Ever wanted a mouth mount for your GoPro? SP Gadgets have you covered - Newsshooter

in green:
https://www.amazon.com/GoPole-Chomps-Hands-Free-Mouth-Cameras/dp/B01BT7XGX0

ETA - different version: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ODDO6A...uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl

ETA - video:

 

[Falling Down]

The family has also stated there are specifics they don’t remember—such as exact times certain things occurred. Not saying they should have remembered as I doubt in the beginning they felt they needed to be paying attention to every little detail, but it does make things a bit shakey if we are just going off their version of events IMO.

In the recent True Crime Garage podcast, it was said that during the initial search, prior to LE being informed that the girls were missing, Kelsi and Cody crosses the bridge and went to nearby houses to see if any of the residents had seen the girls. They only managed to speak to one resident who said they didn’t see them—does anyone know who the person was who they spoke to or has that person not been named?

One house, the one at the end of the drive which goes under the bridge, was unoccupied at the time, as the owner is a snowbird and thus was in a warmer place. Two other houses are fairly close to the SE end of the bridge, one is real close by kind of obscured from the vantage point of the end of the bridge, even during that time of year, according to locals' accounts I've read. Their barn is closer to the bridge than the house, IIRC.

I figure for most people that Monday was a normal work day for folks in and around Delphi.

Many people in Illinois had the day off for Lincoln's birthday. I've often wondered if there's some significance to that in relation to this case, but who knows?

-FD

 

[Falling Down]

Wait though...the timing is actually spot on. If FSG saw BG at 2:52 a couple meters north of the meetup spot, than if I'm understanding that correctly, that's basically on the road right by the trailhead the girls were dropped off at. I measured (yes, more map measuring) the distance from the cemetery to the trailhead and it was around 1900 feet, or about a 10 min. walk. So if the witness saw BG leaving the cemetery around 2:42, and we ignore GH's theory that he walked east, and he walked west instead, that puts him at the trailhead at 2:52 (FSG's first sighting). If BG actually got back on the trail to head back to the CPS lot, instead of taking the road, that's about another 1900 feet (10 min. walk) to the FB trailhead area. That puts him there at 3:02 (FSG's second sighting). D*mn it!

This kind of lines up with what I think may have been his escape. All I know about GH's suspicious man claim from a witness is the person claimed they saw the individual from the kitchen window of a residence along C.R. 300. I have no idea which residence this might be, the M family live across the road, and the old house they own (rental property being rehabbed at the time of the murders, IIRC), would likely obscure some of their view of 930. I'm going off of Google Satellite and my drive through there.

So that leaves residences further east on C.R. 300, adjacent to and east of RL's property, which I find highly unlikely. By that I mean I find it highly unlikely someone unknown to people along C.R. 300 would be walking east of the cemetery and the drop off point for A&L, and not be recognized.

I've pondered three ways BG may have fled the murder scene:

1. Through the woods, which would be the M property in the gorge, and then to the trail which leads to the MHB. He crosses paths with a witness or witnesses while walking to the former CPS property.

OR

2. He heads up the trail which heads west of the abandoned gravel pit, and up to the perimeter of the M parcel which is farm land on the south side of C.R. 300, again eventually ending up near the trailhead closest to the drop off point. He could have kept to the tree line, in which case I see it is possible someone on the M property looked out a window and saw him across their field. In this case, he would have gotten back on the main trail near to the outbuildings the M family has on that property, the ones right by the main trail and the trailhead for the nature reserve trail, mere feet from the drop off point/parking area and the park bench.

OR

3. Cemetery to C.R. 300, walks to the drop off point area, and gets back on the main trail on the way to FB. I find this highly unlikely, but I've seen that theory batted around, here.

JMO

-FD

 

[Falling Down]

The "twist" was mentioned almost right off the bat after the murders. Would DNA analysis been available that soon after?

I've wondered if "twist" has a different meaning, more having to do with the scene itself, possibly manner of death or something similar.

JMO

-FD

 

[tresir2012]

Wow. If 15 mins, starting at pic to point where found took some time. How long do you estimate it took to walk from photo site to remains site? Doesn’t sound like to me to be enough time to control one girl and SA the other, or both? No SA??

Edit to correct some auto corrects lol

I think TL4S estimated 3 minutes.