Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #112

[Gracie55]

That vehicle was never mentioned until the April LE PC...... I have often wondered if the NASA/Military contacts LE said they used at some earlier point (Lord, don't ask me for a link, because I am not gonna dig back through all this stuff to find it) spotted a ?colored vehicle parked near that CPS Building on the afternoon of the murders, and that info was used at the LE PC to "spook" BG and/or his possible alibi person......moo

Dbm

 

[TL4S]

I watched most of GH latest. He said something I’ve never heard before.

He said the vehicle in question was not parked at the CPS building but in front along the street. So I think that would stand out to someone a little more.. a car parked along the street.

I noticed that, too, and one of his callers said he was surprised anyone could pull off the road there.

 

[TL4S]

So currently if you look at RL property records you will see the area that runs along the creek of what used to be RL property is now owned by the county. It’s hard to tell if that part of the parcel were the crime scene is is included in the part now owned by the county.

I had brought this up a long time ago that I didn’t think RL owned that part of the property where the girls were found and I posted the GIS mapping showing the plat.

Jethro saw my post and posted that same mapping however he was smart enough to save it on his hard drive. His shows at the time of the murders RL did own the property all the way down to the water.

So I don’t know why the county now owns that little easement along the water. The only thing I could come up with is some kind of eminent domain thing associated with the bridge renovation.

I remember us talking about that. Is that kind of thing normal for bridge repairs or similar work?

 

[TL4S]

It makes more sense as a premeditated mission than a strictly disorganized blitz attack. Locals say the bridge isn't heavily traveled. It's more likely a planned than a spontaneous occurrence that happens to perfectly trap the girls at the end of the bridge. Coincidences do happen, but man...I don't know.

You know, I've never thought this was a planned occurrence, but the more I've studied the footage and maps of the area, that spot really is the perfect trap. My thinking is more open to the idea now.

It did always seemed to me he was cornering them. As long as he stayed behind them, they really had no way back except by recrossing either the bridge or creek.

 

[jash]

Court docs: Indiana couple changed daughter's age before abandoning her, moving to Canada

That's terrible. I'm not connecting the dots to Libby & Abby though?

 

[TL4S]

When I found out LE requested PE's DNA and autopsy report, and that KG uses the Genmatch symbol on her Twitter account, I hoped those things indicated LE does have the perp's DNA. Today I found this article. I'm sure it's been posted before, but it's new to me.

6/1/18

Familial DNA search might unlock Delphi killer's identity

Recently asked about familial DNA searches and the homicide investigation into German and Williams' death, Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said, “Obviously the answer hasn‘t come to the surface, yet.

“This is out of the box, so what can it hurt?”

Leazenby said Indiana State Police Maj. Steve Holland telephoned Leazenby after the Journal & Courier interviewed Holland, who is director of the Indiana State Police laboratories. Leazenby said Holland was giving him a courtesy call to expect the J&C's questions about familial DNA.

“That’s being discussed," Leazenby said of the outcome of Holland's call, "but there hasn’t been a decision made yet. It’s on the table.

“It might help us reach success.”


*I think they have his DNA. JMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Always thought preplanned as well.

Still, that one article about the bridge linked above quotes a guy who says he traveled half an hour to get there because it is a location considered to be a "destination." So, who knows.

Cannot wait until the day that we all know.

Some locals have said the bridge is not easy to get to, known mostly to locals. Yet Indiana Landmarks says it’s been a destination.

“While the High Bridge has been a popular destination for generations, including the period when it carried trains, it has never been considered a safe structure for pedestrians.”

Indiana Landmarks Announces Rescue of Monon High Bridge - Indiana Landmarks

 

[steeltowngirl]

COMPARING DELPHI VENTURES TO CONNER PRIAIRIE

Recently Canal President Dan McCain made some comparisons to Conner Prairie’s very popular indoor/outdoor museum. “Although we are in a much smaller community 50 miles north of Noblesville, we are somewhat in the same league since we have been attracting visitors from all over the US and even from other countries in the world. On the Canal Center’s weekly attendance register for the warmer six months of each year names of visitors signing in represent an average of a dozen states per week – even a country or two per week,” McCain stated.

He was comparing successes of Conner Prairie as a historical site in a recent release by Indianapolis Business Journal quoting the new CEO from their 800 acre site in Hamilton County. “Conner Prairie is well-known nationally to museum insiders. The new CEO and President, Norman Burns II, wants to make the historical park even better.” And so does McCain in envisioning an even bigger draw of visitors coming to Canal Park in Delphi. One recent example was the local hosting of a multi-state museum group’s conference at Delphi. The Midwest Open-air Museum’s Coordinating Council (MOMCC) brought eighty six leaders from nine states and was assisted in program planning by Conner Prairie staff, MOMCC leaders, and locally by Julia Leahy and Mark Smith.

DelphiTimes.net

 

[steeltowngirl]

But.. LE has said the killer is likely local, has local ties.
The witnesses were local.
The searchers were local.
It’s a small town.

The odds weigh heavily in favor of a local is responsible for these murders, and another local, or group of locals, is hiding the information.

Sometimes I feel like people from across an entire country are more invested in wanting this solved, than the locals are. Just my current opinion.

 

[ScumbagTrav]

MOO possibly catfished by a local. Libby was presenting herself as older before she was a teen.

Personally i have a difficult time believing the "catfished" theory/theories. It seems that it would be clear in the audio if that was what happened. Even if the audio was inconclusive, there seems like there would be some evidence that point point in investigators that direction. There has been no indication or even hinting at this by LE. And they have info we dont.

 

[MingyMoo]

I have over the last few hours been considering the definition Local. Once again it depends on where you live in the world and if you live in a small rural community. For example I drive 2 miles to my nearest local convenience shop. Its local and I don't think anything about it. I am one of those rural types that also lives in a place where the local countryside and its readily made natural amenities is an escape for our Neighbours from nearby Suburbs/Towns/Cities. That got me to thinking as to all the things we really do take for granted as really local people and the visitors our environment attract during holidays, weekends or days off work etc,etc. we attract

• Ramblers
• Fishermen
• Wildlife watchers
• Conservation Groups
• Twitchers
• Railway Enthusiasts
• Geo Cachers
• People wanting a day out in the Countryside
• Criminals (They have a frigging field day)

Just to name a few but it is nothing for them to travel half an hour to get to the spot where on the whole they can participate in their hobbies, know the area and be close to home. Therefore when LE say Local I perhaps don't think they mean as in Delphi Resident i think they mean as in within a 20 mile radius.

 

[TL4S]

I have over the last few hours been considering the definition Local. Once again it depends on where you live in the world and if you live in a small rural community. For example I drive 2 miles to my nearest local convenience shop. Its local and I don't think anything about it. I am one of those rural types that also lives in a place where the local countryside and its readily made natural amenities is an escape for our Neighbours from nearby Suburbs/Towns/Cities. That got me to thinking as to all the things we really do take for granted as really local people and the visitors our environment attract during holidays, weekends or days off work etc,etc. we attract

• Ramblers
• Fishermen
• Wildlife watchers
• Conservation Groups
• Twitchers
• Railway Enthusiasts
• Geo Cachers
• People wanting a day out in the Countryside
• Criminals (They have a frigging field day)

Just to name a few but it is nothing for them to travel half an hour to get to the spot where on the whole they can participate in their hobbies, know the area and be close to home. Therefore when LE say Local I perhaps don't think they mean as in Delphi Resident i think they mean as in within a 20 mile radius.

I've had the exact same thought. 20 miles is nothing for rural areas. And considering it was a rather nice day for the season, outdoor activities would be running high.

 

[Pedrosmom]

I have been obsessed with the cemetery since day 1. Went I went to Delphi, to the trails, the bridge and the Cemetery. We parked down in the very back corner of the cemetery, by RL's property. Looking forward, into the woods, you would be looking towards the CS.
I walked back up to the road and looked towards the cemetery and could NOT see my car parked down in that corner. Also, while parked down in that corner, I looked up towards the main road and could not see the road or any vehicles driving by. It would be a good place to "hide" a vehicle for a quick getaway.
In the first picture--it is N end of bridge to Cemetery--you can clearly see you would NOT have to cross the creek to get there. We know the girls were at the S end and then over by cemetery, RL property, ACROSS the creek.
Pics 2,3,4 and 5 are pictures in the back corner of the Cemetery that butts up to RL property and one looking towards the other back corner.
There is a bit of a path( not dirt path, but just worn down) from corner that butts up to RL towards the CS area
6th is picture of cemetery, RL and trails

This was exactly what I was talking about. Let’s just say a witness calls in the tip line that he was there that day and heard a “couple” arguing under the bridge. I don’t think anyone near that bridge when those girls were abducted would not have noticed this scenario as wrong at best. I also don’t believe anyone other than BG and the girls were under the bridge that day. I also believe that they fought for their lives, screamed, ran, anything. So police go back to all of the cars that were there and they’re missing one - BGs. Two years later, the “couple” arguing under the bridge never pans out, all other witnesses are accounted for as to cars but one - by process of elimination they believe this is BG reporting the couple under the bridge. Then he’s gone. No one saw his vehicle. How convenient that this location is so close to the CS and no one saw it. I personally think the vehicle at the CPS building is a red herring. I do not think he would ever risk parking in plain sight much less so far from the CS he would risk passing people. Police put this all together and this witness is BG. He gave false ID, never came in for an interview and possibly provided a bad address - perhaps a reason for a police raid early on. He has ghosted LE and they changed their strategy. Unfortunately a little late, MOO

 

[ScumbagTrav]

I have over the last few hours been considering the definition Local. Once again it depends on where you live in the world and if you live in a small rural community. For example I drive 2 miles to my nearest local convenience shop. Its local and I don't think anything about it. I am one of those rural types that also lives in a place where the local countryside and its readily made natural amenities is an escape for our Neighbours from nearby Suburbs/Towns/Cities. That got me to thinking as to all the things we really do take for granted as really local people and the visitors our environment attract during holidays, weekends or days off work etc,etc. we attract

• Ramblers
• Fishermen
• Wildlife watchers
• Conservation Groups
• Twitchers
• Railway Enthusiasts
• Geo Cachers
• People wanting a day out in the Countryside
• Criminals (They have a frigging field day)

Just to name a few but it is nothing for them to travel half an hour to get to the spot where on the whole they can participate in their hobbies, know the area and be close to home. Therefore when LE say Local I perhaps don't think they mean as in Delphi Resident i think they mean as in within a 20 mile radius.

When LE says local i think they mean exactly this:

"We also believe this person is from Delphi- currently, or has previously lived here, visits Delphi on a regular basis, or works here."

That covers lot of ground. Much more than a 20 mile radius imo.

 

[MingyMoo]

When LE says local i think they mean exactly this:

"We also believe this person is from Delphi- currently, or has previously lived here, visits Delphi on a regular basis, or works here."

That covers lot of ground. Much more than a 20 mile radius imo.

May be but its a start. instead of looking at the same old same old.

MM

 

[TL4S]

This was exactly what I was talking about. Let’s just say a witness calls in the tip line that he was there that day and heard a “couple” arguing under the bridge. I don’t think anyone near that bridge when those girls were abducted would not have noticed this scenario as wrong at best. I also don’t believe anyone other than BG and the girls were under the bridge that day. I also believe that they fought for their lives, screamed, ran, anything. So police go back to all of the cars that were there and they’re missing one - BGs. Two years later, the “couple” arguing under the bridge never pans out, all other witnesses are accounted for as to cars but one - by process of elimination they believe this is BG reporting the couple under the bridge. Then he’s gone. No one saw his vehicle. How convenient that this location is so close to the CS and no one saw it. I personally think the vehicle at the CPS building is a red herring. I do not think he would ever risk parking in plain sight much less so far from the CS he would risk passing people. Police put this all together and this witness is BG. He gave false ID, never came in for an interview and possibly provided a bad address - perhaps a reason for a police raid early on. He has ghosted LE and they changed their strategy. Unfortunately a little late, MOO

The reported witness to the "couple under the bridge" is known, I believe. Whether or not his statement has been confirmed, or whether the couple were "arguing," I don't know. After that, there's nothing else said about them. Was there a couple? Were they accounted for? Were they two of the witnesses LE has talked about? Were they arguing because they saw a man harming two young girls and one wanted to report while the other didn't (maybe because they were up to no good themselves)? There's too many unknowns, and part of the reason I don't like relying on SM, family, and GH recollections of witnesses is because there's so many variables and contradicting stories.

As for the car, I think if it was a red herring, LE would be asking about it more. It was quietly put out there at the start of the PC, then only mentioned again when asked by interviewers. I, personally, wonder if LE knows after over 2 years, nobody will have reliable information on this car. I'm hopeful the car belongs to BG, and whatever info makes YBG the new face, also makes that car newly significant.

 

[distracted]

When I found out LE requested PE's DNA and autopsy report, and that KG uses the Genmatch symbol on her Twitter account, I hoped those things indicated LE does have the perp's DNA. Today I found this article. I'm sure it's been posted before, but it's new to me.

6/1/18

Familial DNA search might unlock Delphi killer's identity

Recently asked about familial DNA searches and the homicide investigation into German and Williams' death, Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said, “Obviously the answer hasn‘t come to the surface, yet.

“This is out of the box, so what can it hurt?”

Leazenby said Indiana State Police Maj. Steve Holland telephoned Leazenby after the Journal & Courier interviewed Holland, who is director of the Indiana State Police laboratories. Leazenby said Holland was giving him a courtesy call to expect the J&C's questions about familial DNA.

“That’s being discussed," Leazenby said of the outcome of Holland's call, "but there hasn’t been a decision made yet. It’s on the table.

“It might help us reach success.”


*I think they have his DNA. JMO

I've been thinking about this since I read the article.

I really hope that if the testing hasn't taken place, it's not because of the cost because that's a cause that people all over the country would be happy to donate to, especially if it saves another life.

I'm assuming, like other small departments across the nation, that their funds are limited. If that's what's holding them back, all they need to do is ask for help.

ETA - one would think the FBI would be able to do it but the article didn't suggest that it's an option.

 

[MingyMoo]

I've had the exact same thought. 20 miles is nothing for rural areas. And considering it was a rather nice day for the season, outdoor activities would be running high.

That's the difference between USA and UK we are a small island/s and equivalent in size to the State of Oregon. Our perception of Local is very different to the USA and on a lot smaller scale

In its entirety, the United Kingdom is about 94,000 square miles in size. Oregon is just under 96,000 square miles. Wyoming is just over 93,000 square miles, which makes the difference in square miles less between Wyoming and the United Kingdom.

MM

 

[sunsetbeach]

Thanks Tresir !! I now recall hearing something about that, but KG replay of how girls were found included someone finding a shoe, then a searcher saw a Deer and looked up by the deer and that's when they saw the girls. Sort of conflicting info, IMO

I heard the same thing (deer story from KG). Didn’t the person who saw the deer use a phone camera to zoom into the area and that’s how the CS was originally discovered?

 

[tresir2012]

Believe me, I have also wondered that very same scenario you just mentioned. He walked to the N end and got them from there, however, by looking at map that I posted, they would not have had to cross the creek to be left where they were found. One reason I have thought of your scenario is because LE has mentioned that the youtube videos are incorrect. I think we all assume everything happened on S end, DTH, across creek..but what if that is what is incorrect in all of the videos ??
IDK..this case drives me to drinking, but I have contemplated your very scenario described.

The only thing that we know is criminal activity began straight after that video. Perhaps one ran across and he dragged the other across. Also LE wouldn't admit it, if the reenactments were correct. Didn't GH say LE had talked to him to ask him how he could be so accurate? Unless that was just BS from him.
What if he had a small canoe moored on the bank there and they went across in that? MOO