Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #115

[Charlot123]

Interesting also that there was a fundraiser that night at 5. Any locals care to weigh in on this fact? Also do we know if the girls were enrolled in the Delphi public school system or did they attend private schools? TIA!
Eta I can’t tell by the screenshot whether this is a public or private school but the fundraiser has me wondering.

Was it an official fundraiser? You know, there are professionals whom you invite to lead such events? Do we know if they invited one?

 

[Charlot123]

I don’t know why @FinePrint thinks the vehicle might not be involved, but I can present a scenario where the vehicle might not have been BG’s transportation, but still important. The driver of the vehicle could’ve met BG at the trail or even just the parking lot, they hung out/spoke, then the vehicle left. LE asked for people that saw the vehicle there between a certain time frame, but didn’t say the vehicle was there during the entire time frame. A while back @MistyWaters suggested the vehicle might’ve had more to do with a witness than BG himself and I’ve thought about that ever since.

My first impression after the PC was that the vehicle was transportation for BG TBH, but I keep an open mind.

I was thinking the vehicle driver could be his BF or somehow related to BG, hence he does not want to come forward with any info.

 

[Sillybilly]

Landing at random here ...

Stop the bickering and personalizing in this thread.

Some members may have an opinion based on something they can't discuss under TOS, or perhaps just based on gut feeling, or whatever.

You may politely ask what they base their opinion on but they are not required to respond. If you don't get an answer, you don't get one; just move on.

 

[Charlot123]

This is the one

Now I understand. This conversation started before 2:00 and the caller’s brother won some election.

 

[ScumbagTrav]

Now I understand. This conversation started before 2:00 and the caller’s brother won some election.

Ahhh thanks. I was wondering about that myself.

Been seeing what i can find out about the fundraiser... not much at all.

 

[cody22]

***...moo

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Bad news:
Police were cracking cold cases with a DNA website. Then the fine print changed.
The announcement kindled a revolution in forensics that has since helped solve more than 50 rapes and homicides in 29 states.

But earlier this year, that online database changed its privacy policy to restrict law enforcement searches, and since then, these cold cases have become much harder to crack. The change is allowing some criminals who could be identified and caught to remain undetected and unpunished, authorities say.

 

[sunshineray]

This is the one

Thanks SBTrav...Wow that was upsetting. My instincts on listening to that caller are he's for real and in-the-know about what he speaks to.

All LE has is very little touch DNA found on one of the girls sweatshirt, on the shoulder.

The investigators just can't believe how little DNA recovered because of how the murder scene was left. That tells me the murders were very invasive to their poor bodies, IMO. (Not necessarily SA)

Killer(s) stayed in the area until the 3:45 timeframe. Libby's dad was there looking and his daughter's killer was still nearby. Just bold or stuck hiding in the woods waiting to slip away? I wonder how LE came to that conclusion?

This is all very disheartening. I don't know what to think...about so many things.

 

[Falling Down]

If he's not local and didn't meet anyone on the trails before the girls, he might have thought it was more remote and isolated than it really was.

Edit- spelling

My understanding is there were other witnesses who saw him before the girls were dropped off, LE have indicated they're looking for information about who was driving the vehicle parked at the abandoned CPS building "between Noon and 5", per the April PC. People were on the trails, at various times, during the morning and afternoon hours, although Libby's older sister has mentioned in interviews in recent months she didn't see anyone else there when the girls were dropped off. They were dropped off at approximately 1:40PM.

MOO is BG was there lurking for a time before 1:40PM, he was waiting until someone fell into his trap at the end of the bridge.

JMO

-FD

 

[Charlot123]

Bad news:
Police were cracking cold cases with a DNA website. Then the fine print changed.
The announcement kindled a revolution in forensics that has since helped solve more than 50 rapes and homicides in 29 states.

But earlier this year, that online database changed its privacy policy to restrict law enforcement searches, and since then, these cold cases have become much harder to crack. The change is allowing some criminals who could be identified and caught to remain undetected and unpunished, authorities say.

Well, the site is Gedmatch. And the fine print asks owners of the DNAs to merely opt in so that their DNAs could be accessible for the LE pool.

I can imagine there might be ways to bypass the fine print, to find out who the match is, but in all such cases, the results will not be admissible in court.

With the abundance of commercial ancestry sites, Gedmatch is by far not the limiting one. But for today, and for the Delphi case, it might be. All because someone did not opt-in.

 

[Charlot123]

My understanding is there were other witnesses who saw him before the girls were dropped off, LE have indicated they're looking for information about who was driving the vehicle parked at the abandoned CPS building "between Noon and 5", per the April PC. People were on the trails, at various times, during the morning and afternoon hours, although Libby's older sister has mentioned in interviews in recent months she didn't see anyone else there when the girls were dropped off. They were dropped off at approximately 1:40PM.

MOO is BG was there lurking for a time before 1:40PM, he was waiting until someone fell into his trap at the end of the bridge.

JMO

-FD

I think he perfectly well knew who he was waiting for.

 

[Charlot123]

Thanks SBTrav...Wow that was upsetting. My instincts on listening to that caller are he's for real and in-the-know about what he speaks to.

All LE has is very little touch DNA found on one of the girls sweatshirt, on the shoulder.

The investigators just can't believe how little DNA recovered because of how the murder scene was left. That tells me the murders were very invasive to their poor bodies, IMO. (Not necessarily SA)

Killer(s) stayed in the area until the 3:45 timeframe. Libby's dad was there looking and his daughter's killer was still nearby. Just bold or stuck hiding in the woods waiting to slip away? I wonder how LE came to that conclusion?

This is all very disheartening. I don't know what to think...about so many things.

If people do the Google search “how to get rid of DNA traces”, and then delete their Google history, is there a way to still find out?

 

[Charlot123]

I know the sketch isn't a photograph, but to me that sketch looks like a young man.

The sketch, of course. But given that once we were presented with another sketch, why should we believe this one?

The LE gave the age brackets from 18 to 40. Whatever one can make out of it.

The video is grainy, and I have seen it being reconstituted into a young man, an old Turk, someone with a rabbit on his chin, etc, etc.

I think the video resembles one young man, though.

 

[sunshineray]

If people do the Google search “how to get rid of DNA traces”, and then delete their Google history, is there a way to still find out?

Well Casey Anthony had quite a bit of her deleted google searches recovered and I believe so did Jody Arias too. Problem is a phone or computer are so easily gotten rid of, unless info is also stored in a cloud, like Hillary's emails, killer has most likely gotten rid of evidence.

 

[gregjrichards]

If people do the Google search “how to get rid of DNA traces”, and then delete their Google history, is there a way to still find out?

LE IT specialists can still find computer searches done on your computer even if you delete your google search history. If the computer is destroyed though then I don’t think it would be possible. I doubt internet service providers would have information on the searches a customer made.

 

[cody22]

If people do the Google search “how to get rid of DNA traces”, and then delete their Google history, is there a way to still find out?

Someone might have knowledge about how to avoid leaving or contaminate their DNA through their work, or friends with knowledge of the subject ?....moo

 

[Charlot123]

Well Casey Anthony had quite a bit of her deleted google searches recovered and I believe so did Jody Arias too. Problem is a phone or computer are so easily gotten rid of, unless info is also stored in a cloud, like Hillary's emails, killer has most likely gotten rid of evidence.

Or he could have Googled “protein degradation” instead.

But - I just Googled this question. And the best answer is not what you think it is. So one might be looking not for a guy stashing oxyclean, but for a totally different behavior a couple of weeks prior to the murders. I wonder if this, in fact, is what he did.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

How about the theory he IS a tool? Wait and see! #JusticeForLibbyAndAbby

Do you think of a human missile perhaps? I'm waiting with you to see one day.

 

[Falling Down]

Well now, since I've not been around for a couple years worth of discussion, would anyone care to give a synopsis on the possible escape routes of this killer?

I can't imagine he'd walk back across that bridge and out. It appears to me out through that cemetery might be a decent theory. The thing that I see that's interesting is that driveway at the bottom of the hill the girls supposedly went down. (I'm not convinced they went down the hill when he said "down the hill", unless there is proof of the matter?)

Then I see that rail bed extends southerly all the way through the woods, around a farm that has a bunch of equipment strewn about the place, and crosses over Indiana W 200 N.

Lastly, the creek bed could provide a route out of there, to somewhere on W 300 N.

What's the historic discussion regarding this matter?

Member MY further upthread wondered about some of the same stuff, both both yours and theirs are good posts. We've covered it here quite a bit in earlier threads, and from my experience driving around there two years ago I can give a decent perspective on the possible escape routes. One of the biggest reasons why I drove to Delphi was to see for myself how many escape routes would have been possible, it bothered me quite a bit.

I picture in my mind two escape routes through the woods, on the north side of the creek.

-Through the cemetery, on to C.R. 300, or

-Through the woods and then back on to the main trail, I think this is most likely and kind of jives with what we think eyewitnesses saw after the murders.

I checked east up the creek, by the Wilson Bridge. The vegetation is thick and the walls of the gorge are steep where it narrows by the bridge. So that's out of the question. I did see two trucks parked there and a couple of guys fishing. On Google Earth you can see trucks parked there.

I then drove down C.R. 425, then west on C.R. 200. Where the old railroad bed went through there is terribly overgrown and had standing water in it, this was middle of the Summer time. So that eliminated him getting out that way, and possibly parking along 200, plus the chances of him being seen would be very high.

I ended up in Delphi, and visited the park on the north end of town, which just happens to be where the April PC was held, in a community type building.

Spent some time there, and then drove back south to Riley Park, which straddles the south side of Deer Creek. I eliminated going west along the creek and ending up in town, there's a sand bar for a short distance east of the park on the north side of the creek, popular for fishing and baptisms from what I saw that day. On the south side the wall of the gorge is steep and the vegetation thick along there.

Others have wrote similar posts about this issue, locals and folks who have been to the area and came up with pretty much with the same as what I've described above.

Even as easy as it is to get to the bridge, at least one local was interviewed early on by a news reporter out of Indy who indicated they knew there was an old bridge out there, but they didn't know how to get to it.

JMO

-FD

 

[moonlessnight]

they don't need the computer. the ISP stores your history.

Your ISP Knows Everything About You. Here’s How to Secure Your Privacy in 2019.

Well Casey Anthony had quite a bit of her deleted google searches recovered and I believe so did Jody Arias too. Problem is a phone or computer are so easily gotten rid of, unless info is also stored in a cloud, like Hillary's emails, killer has most likely gotten rid of evidence.