Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #118

[Charlot123]

Here is the article that I had already linked.

The situation was not the change, rather, the earnings taken away, but I don't know the game they used, so I explained in a simplistic way.

Monoamine oxidase A gene (MAOA) predicts behavioral aggression following provocation

My feeling is, the perpetrator is the carrier of MAO-L and it is a genetic thing. He is prone to violence, extreme violence, but not in all situations. He is able to hide in plain sight because if he is not "dissed", he responds exactly like everyone else. Probably, he was not even viewed as extremely aggressive, except for people who knew him well.

What and why made him view the situation with the girls as "dissing"? I don't know but maybe he changed with age, or something happened in his life?

If it is a young athlete, maybe, ironically, sport offered a good outlet for his aggression, and it looked normal? And then he could not play (a trauma?) and stress started flooding his brain?

From the article, I surmise that carriers of MAO-L are also more prone to PTSD, so perhaps, he suffers from it, too? MOO.

 

[Charlot123]

Immediately I remember of a certain person in my ex-environment, which has the warrior gene, haha. These people may have further psycho-problems, which may turn into aggressiveness, dependent on the situation. So, it could be both: expecting something, the person didn't get or just hate for another reason, the start point perhaps lying in childhood/teen's age.

You know, the more I read about the MAO, the more I understand why guys get in trouble, domestic violence, jail.

It is their misfortune. The gene coding for MAO activity is sex-linked. So women have two copies, on both X-chromosomes, and men have only one. So if they have MAO-L, then this is it... Women carry either MAO-F( fast), or a combo of MAO-F and MAO-L. But very seldom do they have two MAO-L copies.

Nature. It can ill afford women to get homicidally angry, as they need to raise the kids.

Men - they were supposed to hunt, to be at war. They were more expendable, evolutionary. And yes, they had to be aggressive, to fight for their tribe... Achilles and Hector. So maybe evolutionary, MAO-L has some benefits. (BTW, MAO-L carriers in separate experiments have been shown to be faster thinkers, too).

But - no one expected men to end up working in small cubicles, surrounded by noise and lots of other people. Small use of MAO-L in open office. (((

 

[MingyMoo]

bbm
If he is verrry smart and very firm with crime/forensics (amateurish but near a pro), which I think he is MOO, then I can imagine such an approach.

@FromGermany I tend to agree with you on this and have been thinking it for a while.

MingyMoo

 

[Charlot123]

Immediately I remember of a certain person in my ex-environment, which has the warrior gene, haha. These people may have further psycho-problems, which may turn into aggressiveness, dependent on the situation. So, it could be both: expecting something, the person didn't get or just hate for another reason, the start point perhaps lying in childhood/teen's age.
I wonder, if ADHS/OCD people in general often are still hating as an adult, how their (helpless) environment had responded to their disease during their upbringing. Do I have expressed well, Idk. Of course, there haven't to be murderous cravings, but perhaps something like fury. I would like to know.

I was thinking about it. It all differs and much depends on general IQ, but here is just my personal feeling. They got these traits from one of the parents, right? Again, MOO - for helpless, introverted kids, it is better to have a social, extroverted mom, and introverted dad, than vise versa.
Extroverted moms will have friends, whom they will bring into the house. And moms will bring in kids, so there will be more exposure to peer group.
But to answer your question - most of these people are not hating at all. On the opposite. Our biggest philanthropists come from this group.
There should be something else (today we think, perinatal brain trauma, perhaps? Tomorrow, genetic will tell) that creates murderous types. Not ADHD/OCD per se.

 

[Charlot123]

Recently, I came across this news item of a gas station robbery that took place in Delphi just a few days prior to Abby and Libby's murders.

That perp. was arrested and is in no way connected to the girls. Seeing this video got my mind racing though....

This a freeze frame of what the guy was wearing.

View attachment 220539

When I saw what the guy was wearing, I couldn't help but be struck by the way he is so covered up in a blue jacket, wearing a hoodie and with the lower part of his face covered.

It is similar to what I personally see in certain still shots of the video that Libby took of the killer on the bridge.

This is one example....(source is frame #4 of this frame by frame file) Images from the video : DelphiMurders


View attachment 220542


I have read (linked previously in these threads) that the man on the bridge was described by at least one witness as covering the lower part of his face with a scarf that day. We have discussed this possibility within these threads several times.

It's possible the killer saw this type of 'disguise' from the gas station video on the local news just days earlier and reminded by it, thought it could be a good idea for him to try a similar method of disguising himself to commit this crime.

I still believe that it was planned....but who the victims were going to be was not planned.

Anyhow....JMO and speculation.

Very interesting. We thought, a respirator, or something like it. But I agree, it looks like a white scarf. Or a neckerchief, or a handkerchief.

 

[tresir2012]

I read somewhere a strange thing, they saw two deers, and then lifted their gaze and saw the girls. Which makes me wonder, were the girls somehow mounted/placed high up, or were the deers at the bank near the water. Why "lifted"?

I thought it was the other way, they saw the movement of the deer then looked down and saw the girls. I took it to mean the deer were higher up the hill on a deer trail. MOO.

 

[Boxer]

You know, the more I read about the MAO, the more I understand why guys get in trouble, domestic violence, jail.

It is their misfortune. The gene coding for MAO activity is sex-linked. So women have two copies, on both X-chromosomes, and men have only one. So if they have MAO-L, then this is it... Women carry either MAO-F( fast), or a combo of MAO-F and MAO-L. But very seldom do they have two MAO-L copies.

Nature. It can ill afford women to get homicidally angry, as they need to raise the kids.

Men - they were supposed to hunt, to be at war. They were more expendable, evolutionary. And yes, they had to be aggressive, to fight for their tribe... Achilles and Hector. So maybe evolutionary, MAO-L has some benefits. (BTW, MAO-L carriers in separate experiments have been shown to be faster thinkers, too).

But - no one expected men to end up working in small cubicles, surrounded by noise and lots of other people. Small use of MAO-L in open office. (((

MOO Delph has a timeless social environment. Farmers, livestock handlers, merchants, police, clergy. Being a soldier is usually a matter of just signing up. MOO there are always boogie men in the population (killers) this one was literally on a bridge.

 

[sunshineray]

For some reason, I still think BG knew the area well, probably was on and to the side of the trail a lot and knew it very very well. One week day.. he sees an opportunity of a young girl. He checks and the coast is clear in both directions and he makes his move. He moves them "down the hill" so that so new people coming along from the NW will spot them.

This guy HAD to be seen on that trail before that day.

I agree and those three former FBI agents that talked about a "lair" being set up ahead of time.

A lair would indicate the killer possibly had items used in the crimes or cleanup stashed there or at the very least the area to bring them to was chosen beforehand. But then that makes him planning to cross a very cold creek unlikely, I would think.

After finding out just how many people were around Monon Bridge area that day, someone planning to kill one within a short distance of that bridge, yet alone deciding to kill two, makes me wonder why that spot was chosen at all?

So much that just doesn't fit with a multitude of senarios, especially killer staying in the area until DG arrived. I wonder if he was part of a group there that day. Sorry, went off on a few tangents.

 

[sunshineray]

As kids today are very tech savvy and many are smart and also cheeky, the girls could have "stalked" an attractive man (well known not only to them!!) and then he annoyingly started stalking the girls. Maybe, since his HS time (a decade ago or so) he was so-to-say a victim to idolizing by little girls, aged between 9 and 13 - and he really hated it for one reason or another. Maybe, he expected respect by important adults (male/female), which he meant to have deserved, but what he got in his eyes, was only idolizing by unimportant little girls all over the place.
I would like to know, if the girls had posters on the walls in their room at home.

Young teens girls can certainly do their share of "stalking" the boys, especially the cute "bad boys". My friends and I would ride our bikes down their streets just for a chance sighting. All very harmless, never stopping, just looking. Now with the internet that innocent stuff can easily become more bold and dangerous. JMO

 

[TheVisual]

As kids today are very tech savvy and many are smart and also cheeky, the girls could have "stalked" an attractive man (well known not only to them!!) and then he annoyingly started stalking the girls. Maybe, since his HS time (a decade ago or so) he was so-to-say a victim to idolizing by little girls, aged between 9 and 13 - and he really hated it for one reason or another. Maybe, he expected respect by important adults (male/female), which he meant to have deserved, but what he got in his eyes, was only idolizing by unimportant little girls all over the place.
I would like to know, if the girls had posters on the walls in their room at home.

You mean like CJ? I have thought of him also.

 

[Boxer]

I agree and those three former FBI agents that talked about a "lair" being set up ahead of time.

A lair would indicate the killer possibly had items used in the crimes or cleanup stashed there or at the very least the area to bring them to was chosen beforehand. But then that makes him planning to cross a very cold creek unlikely, I would think.

After finding out just how many people were around Monon Bridge area that day, someone planning to kill one within a short distance of that bridge, yet alone deciding to kill two, makes me wonder why that spot was chosen at all?

So much that just doesn't fit with a multitude of senarios, especially killer staying in the area until DG arrived. I wonder if he was part of a group there that day. Sorry, went off on a few tangents.

I haven't seen the "lair" discussion ny FBI etc. Can you point me in right direction?
MY first inpression of the CS that someone had hung out there as a kid and knlew it was a weird soundproof, hidden area near the bridge.

In the beginning I assumed from the older age of the suspect, that the killer had hung out there as a kid, but with the new sketch, I would say BG was hanging out there in contemporay times.

But as with all speculation it is also possible the sound proof, hidden quality of the CS area also was noted by an adult fisherman/hunter or transient as well.

One thing - of all the community searchers that night 2/13/17, some must have known about that flat as a hang out' resting place, it was a destination of some sort. I would think they would check all known areas like that along the creek thay evening before dark.

 

[Falling Down]

I don't know the area and I am only going on memory from what I have seen and read, but wasn't the slope going down the hill only easily navigable from the one side? I thought it was pretty steep on the other side, going directly down to the water's edge. I thought I remember reading that they would have gone a ways back before going that direction. I could be wrong though. In any event, I think LE would know from what evidence they have whether or not they actually waded through the creek.

You are correct.

At the NW end of the bridge the creek side is very steep, I would call it a cliff of sorts.

 

[Falling Down]

bbm
At least once, I think, he has to have been there. What, if he had a completely different outfit, another hairstyle, facial hair in a different style AND had a girlfriend, maybe even a dog by his side?

Could be all of the above.

I believe he's been there before, most likely many times before. He had to be familiar not only with the terrain and where he wanted to kill, but he was familiar with how people behave in the bridge area. By that I mean their guard would most likely be down.

I've been to the area around the one in question. It's very peaceful, and at the Wilson Bridge it's beautiful in the Summer. So I'm sure the gorge through there is stunning in its beauty, seeing it in person.

Per accounts we've seen from members here, they would probably agree with my assessment, and it appears that hours can go by with no other foot traffic taking place near the bridge. BG knew this and knows this, and took advantage of the serenity of Deer Creek through there.

JMO

 

[Boxer]

Very interesting. We thought, a respirator, or something like it. But I agree, it looks like a white scarf. Or a neckerchief, or a handkerchief.

MOO an observation: not a lot of men in Indiana would wear a white scarf by choice, seems like something grabbed in the car.

 

[kkdj]

bump

 

[sunshineray]

I haven't seen the "lair" discussion ny FBI etc. Can you point me in right direction?
MY first inpression of the CS that someone had hung out there as a kid and knlew it was a weird soundproof, hidden area near the bridge.

In the beginning I assumed from the older age of the suspect, that the killer had hung out there as a kid, but with the new sketch, I would say BG was hanging out there in contemporay times.

But as with all speculation it is also possible the sound proof, hidden quality of the CS area also was noted by an adult fisherman/hunter or transient as well.

One thing - of all the community searchers that night 2/13/17, some must have known about that flat as a hang out' resting place, it was a destination of some sort. I would think they would check all known areas like that along the creek thay evening before dark.

Boxer, the "lair" discussion is about 3/4's in, maybe a little less. There's no timestamp on the recording that I see so I'm approximating.

122 | Worst Case Scenario: The Delphi Murders Best Case Worst Case podcast

 

[JudgeJudi]

This has gone on almost three years and there’s a reward of almost $250,000.

Very few people ever claim rewards.

Even if the police receive a tip off, conditions on the reward may mean the tipster is not eligible for the money unless the information leads to an offender being charged and convicted.

What a large reward will do is generate a lot of media publicity particularly in cold cases. In Australia we have 25 $1 million rewards on offer but all 25 are still cold.

 

[Charlot123]

I haven't seen the "lair" discussion ny FBI etc. Can you point me in right direction?
MY first inpression of the CS that someone had hung out there as a kid and knlew it was a weird soundproof, hidden area near the bridge.

In the beginning I assumed from the older age of the suspect, that the killer had hung out there as a kid, but with the new sketch, I would say BG was hanging out there in contemporay times.

But as with all speculation it is also possible the sound proof, hidden quality of the CS area also was noted by an adult fisherman/hunter or transient as well.

One thing - of all the community searchers that night 2/13/17, some must have known about that flat as a hang out' resting place, it was a destination of some sort. I would think they would check all known areas like that along the creek thay evening before dark.

If you go to thread 1 post 1 of this case, it says that according to the information received by friends and families, foul play not suspected.

I wonder what exactly f@f said to the police.

 

[Justice101]

There has been talk that the words 'guys' and 'down the hill' were from 2 different parts of the conversation that Libby recorded. Also that the girls possibly did not (or could not have) crossed the creek and climbed the hill to where they were killed. Here is a different idea as to how it may have happened:

Girls walk on bridge, Libby takes pic of Abby and video of BG, BG gets closer and asks 'hey guys, where does the trail end?' They answer that it ends right at the end of the bridge where they are. He says, 'thanks, I better turn around and head back.' Then he goes back over the bridge and lays in wait. Girls cross back over, BG comes out and directs them 'down the hill' at that point. This way he does not get wet, girls don't have to climb steep, wet hill. Just a thought.

That's what I've always thought. That he went back across and waited for them. That makes sense in they would also have to go "down the hill" and that way BG new there was nobody on the SE side of the bridge and he could look back to the NW and see nobody new was coming down the trail. The three of them crossing the creek in February (even though the creek was low) just doesn't add up to me for someone cleverly planning this.

 

[Charlot123]

deleted by me