Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #118

[Boxer]

IMO the police should have released a drawing of the hat, too.

Hat? Must be part of their withholding information tests to confirm real witnesses.

 

[BigTexas]

In the broad sense of all things, what does it matter if he was wearing a hat or not? I believe we have to focus on as much of the face/mannerisms/walk/voice to the extreme. Everything else is less important. MOO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

And--wouldn't the witness have seen that his Jeans were wet ???
Maybe?? Maybe not?? some jeans have the 2-toned look, dark and light, but I think BG jeans are NOT like that and a witness seeing him afterwards would have noticed WET jeans. I don't know, just me thinking out loud and JMO

I agree it’s weird. I’ve begun to question whether these witnesses actually saw BG or if they did, they saw him before he accosted the girls but not after.
My current theory...my previous 3,567 theories should now be considered secondary...is that BG is very familiar with the trails and the area and visits with someone there frequently. Perhaps works occasionally for farms around there. He was visiting or housesitting at one of the rural houses within a couple miles of the trails and while driving spotted the girls on the way to the trails and followed them. Saw them pull into the trailhead parking drove past and parked himself at the CPS building deciding on the spur of the moment to attack them. He had a gun and knife in the car and took those with him. He wasn’t sure an opportunity would arise. It did. He trapped the girls at the end of the bridge. I think his intent was to take the girls to either the little deer shed/shack on the south side of the creek or to a barn or out building at a nearby farm on the north side. If he had evil intent to attack them I would think someplace a little warmer would have been his plan. I can’t imagine sloshing through a freezing cold creek was his plan unless he was trying to get them somewhere inside. Anyway...the girls bolted and tried to escape by running across the creek. This sent the killer into a rage and when he finally caught Abby he killed her with his knife quickly. Libby came to her defense and the killer turned on her and a fight ensued eventually battering and injuring her much worse and eventually killing her too. By now he is so angry at them for spoiling his plans he moves them to where they are found and poses them or defiles them in some way that shocks LE when they are found. The killer is startled out of his killing trance by Libby’s phone ringing. He leaves by heading up the creek away from the bridge thinking he cannot head to his car or he will be seen. He follows the creek for awhile sometimes wading in to rinse blood off his clothes. Then leaves the creek to walk across fields or the tree line to whatever house he’s staying at. It is during this trek I think the person who helped with the first sketch saw him and decided it was “something that needed reporting”. After showering, washing or maybe burying his clothes, gun and knife. He calls someone he knows and tells them his car broke down and is parked at the CPS building. They help him retrieve his car. He stays in town a few days so it doesn’t look suspicious. A few days later he leaves town. Never has been back.
All just my thoughts and opinions...until I come up with another theory.
Feel free to point out the flaws!

 

[almagata]

What prosecutor Robert Ives has to say in just this brief clip is more info that we've heard about the actual crime scene in...I don't know when. He puts one common argument here to rest and maybe more. Are we allowed to discuss this here?

Yes, I really want to hear that whole Robert Ives interview now.

 

[Falling Down]

Yes, I really want to hear that whole Robert Ives interview now.

Interesting he made that one claim in that short clip.

 

[Andreee]

My adult son has OCD. Diagnosed at age 15. There is no possible way to diagnose OCD from a still shot from a video enhanced in a myriad of ways, a two second video clip, and four words from an audio clip, which is really all we have.
It may end up that BG has OCD but it’s just as possible he suffers from one of hundreds and hundreds of other disorders, none of which, I believe are diagnosable from the limited information we have.
If the intent is to determine a disorder to whittle down the suspect pool, my opinion is that is that’s a good thought but impossible in this case. If the implication is that people with OCD are more prone toward violence and heinous crimes, my opinion is that you are wrong. Evil cuts across all economic classes, all genders, all social classes, all education levels, all disorders and health concerns. All everything.

Agreed. If anything, OCDers are hyper sensitive and only are fearful of inadvertently hurting others, not actually doing so.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Retracing Libby and Abby's step Monon High Bridge-Down by creek (1.33)

I watched this on a full screen on my PC. At 0:27 the crime scene tape is visible and you’re looking directly towards the steep embankment where the detective stood in photo 5. There’s no reason to suppose the girls must have climbed up the embankment there.

Once they reached the sandbank in the middle of the creek, you will see there are other points where you can cross the remaining distance. At 1:12, immediately to the left of the fallen branch in the creek, the embankment is nowhere near as steep.

 

[stattlich1]

And--wouldn't the witness have seen that his Jeans were wet ???

That one vid a couple pages back showed a demonstration of a guy with wet jeans all the way up to his waist, they were saying you couldn't tell they were wet if ALL the material was wet. I imagine if he had an hour out of water that indeed he was not dripping wet, and it might not have been so noticeable to a passerby.

And I don't think hypothermia would come in to play on this particular day in February.

MOO

 

[tresir2012]

How about BG is a substitute teacher? Had the day off, familiar with the area and possibly familiar and/or acquainted with both girls and middle school aged kids in general?
Hence the down the hill, guys comment? I teach and frequently use the term guys and also Bud, but mostly when speaking to a single male child. MOO

How many think this could be a High Schooler as the new sketch appears to be so young looking?

 

[Moonracer]

How many think this could be a High Schooler as the new sketch appears to be so young looking?

I have thought high school from the get-go. . .

 

[Ozoner]

That one vid a couple pages back showed a demonstration of a guy with wet jeans all the way up to his waist, they were saying you couldn't tell they were wet if ALL the material was wet. I imagine if he had an hour out of water that indeed he was not dripping wet, and it might not have been so noticeable to a passerby.

And I don't think hypothermia would come in to play on this particular day in February.

MOO

This is a creek, not the Ohio River. There are probably places where BG could have crossed it without getting anything but his boots and maybe an inch or two of his pant legs wet.

 

[Evinrude]

This is a creek, not the Ohio River. There are probably places where BG could have crossed it without getting anything but his boots and maybe an inch or two of his pant legs wet.

Im assuming maybe a foot or in depth. With that said, regardless if your adrenaline is in high gear or not, you would succumb to exposure of that water in some way.
Like I had mentioned at an earlier time, if you dont believe me, put your feet in a foot of water that is 40 degrees for 20 seconds. Then stay outside for another 20 minutes.

 

[tresir2012]

This is the best I can do. Here is another day of discovery photo from the same guy who took photo #5. Same area and obviously the same time frame. Perhaps more of a close up:

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These are photos from my recent visit. I took quite a few of the opposite bank because obviously that's a key variable. In the first photo you can see that depending on the angle it doesn't look particularly daunting from the opposite side at ground level, just after emerging from the woods. This is looking left (downstream) :

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But once toward the middle of the creek and different angles the 3-5 foot bank is obvious:

Imgur
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Imgur

This last one is taken from further downstream. Bodies were found at left. I was trying to capture several aspects in this phot0...the approximate elevation dropoff from bridge level (right) to creek level, the potential view the home beyond the barrier may have had toward the crime scene area, and the quick ascent required on the far bank (left). The home beyond the barrier with the big open field would be straight ahead in the upper center of the photo. Not visible. Home is tucked along the edge of their property overlooking Deer Creek. End of bridge is approximately 2:30 on a clock face in relationship to right side of photo, and up the hill roughly same level as top right. End of bridge is maybe 300 yards from where I took this photo, if I had to estimate. I have no idea where this half mile nonsense comes from.

Imgur

Those pictures require a sign up which I don't wish to do so could you screenshot them directly into here or post them from the source if they are MSM? If they are your own pictures I think that is allowed but you may need the ok from a mod first.

 

[tresir2012]

This is a creek, not the Ohio River. There are probably places where BG could have crossed it without getting anything but his boots and maybe an inch or two of his pant legs wet.

Im assuming maybe a foot or in depth. With that said, regardless if your adrenaline is in high gear or not, you would succumb to exposure of that water in some way.
Like I had mentioned at an earlier time, if you dont believe me, put your feet in a foot of water that is 40 degrees for 20 seconds. Then stay outside for another 20 minutes.

Nobody needs to do such a dangerous experiment in December. Just go to the media thread and look at the searchers in the creek the day they found the girls. The depth varies from inches in places on the sand bar to waist deep in other places. The searchers are well protected in the gear they are wearing.

 

[Tiger Stripes]

I have thought high school from the get-go. . .

Late teens to mid-20s. MOO. Could have been a college/community college student, too, as well as someone who graduated h.s. but not yet sure whether or not he'll go to college/tech school. Thus, he happens to be around in the daytime on a relatively warm-ish day for mid-February in central Indiana.

 

[tresir2012]

I've thought since early on he could have had some kind of skin-tight waterproof fabric underneath the jeans. That way there would have been no direct water-to-skin contact on his feet and legs.

Hypothermia would take some time being wet in 42-43F weather, but I agree about limited movement of the lower extremities if there was direct contact of the cold creek and his skin. The muscles contract and stiffen, blood flow slows, and yes movement slows in the legs, until they warm up.

JMO

A neoprene wetsuit like surfers wear. Or just waterproof boots under his jeans.

 

[Justice101]

Nobody needs to do such a dangerous experiment in December. Just go to the media thread and look at the searchers in the creek the day they found the girls. The depth varies from inches in places on the sand bar to waist deep in other places. The searchers are well protected in the gear they are wearing.

I'm a fly fisherman and wade in creeks, streams, rivers all the time. In February, the streams are typically half full (full in spring and low in summer). That creek was small enough to easily get traversed in that spot. Slightly over knee high and fairly slow flowing current. But all their pants would have definitely gotten wet... and they would dry out afterwards extremely slowly in that temperature.

 

[tresir2012]

This may be a crazy question, but how do you look up hitmen? Would really like to know, not because I want one, just curious!! MOO. Thank you. Katt

There is a recent murder conviction on a WS thread on here (victim was Bill (William ) Taylor) where the perps asked a friend about getting a hitman and the friend was in his local pub and asked another friend about this but it was not revealed whether a hit man was ever contacted. The conspiracy charges against that friend were dropped but the perps were both convicted as having done the murder themselves. So this is something that you find out from a friend of a friend by the look of it.

 

[Akweks]

What prosecutor Robert Ives has to say in just this brief clip is more info that we've heard about the actual crime scene in...I don't know when. He puts one common argument here to rest and maybe more. Are we allowed to discuss this here?

That was quite interesting but I’m stuck on the man talking about the bridge at the beginning of the audio. That voice! I’ve been waiting to hear THAT voice.

https://cms.megaphone.fm/channel/sceneofthecrime?selected=HIM1005356840&fbclid=IwAR05q4yXz1fEco1luId9UqY4O5UW1pEUBZI-okzUSs5-_FeuP9G0rFXHNBk

 

[tresir2012]

And--wouldn't the witness have seen that his Jeans were wet ???
Maybe?? Maybe not?? some jeans have the 2-toned look, dark and light, but I think BG jeans are NOT like that and a witness seeing him afterwards would have noticed WET jeans. I don't know, just me thinking out loud and JMO

I'm not sure that anyone definitely saw him afterwards though. Did they?