Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #123

[Jax49]

That link doesn't work for me. It just shows the broken symbol after I press play.

Can you access if directly thru youtube?

 

[Falling Down]

I am curious about your statement that Robert Ives is the top prosecutor again. We know he was re-sworn in as a deputy prosecuting attorney close to the time of the April 2019 press conference. There is another poster here who recently asserted that he left again. I wanted to see if what that poster said was true and I can find no information that Ives is still associated with the Carroll County Prosecutor's Office. Both IN.gov and the Carroll County court pages list Nick McLeland as the head prosecutor with Troy Hawkins acting as deputy. @Falling Down, you are somewhat local, I believe? Have the websites just not been updated? Can you confirm that Robert Ives has entirely replaced Nick McCleland?

I'm not local, but I follow the local news there.

I live in Fort Wayne.

I could be wrong about Ives.

Thanks.

 

[Falling Down]

I’d also presume most of the walkers on the Delphi trail system are more or less regulars. At the time the girls were reported missing all that was known was they weren’t at the place they were supposed to be picked up at. Maybe they went somewhere else with friends, maybe they kept walking and got lost, all sorts of possibilities would’ve passed through people’s minds and without a doubt the least was they were murdered by someone on the bridge and trail system.

So a day later, upon the horrible discovery of their bodies, these regular walkers would be called upon to remember precisely who and what they observed the day before, but not two days before or a week before. I could compare that to a regular shopping trip to the same store and unless I observe somebody that really stands out for a specific reason it’s quite common for recent observations to blur together. Not all of us have extraordinary instant recall of prior events that aren’t significant at the time, in fact I’d guess very few of us do.

Good post.

Who else would know all this stuff about the trails, its users, traffic on them, etc.?

Bridge Guy

JMO

 

[Falling Down]

OMG. ------ I think, I didn't see the video until today. Noticing: In between I also saw the date July 2015. The shadow at 13:34/41:27 looks like a man with a t-shirt with short sleeves. The shoes/steps aren't sounding like soft soles, but like hard soles with cleats (or very similar), especially when stepping over a transition with wooden planks once in the video. The shadow looks, like the person is holding a camera with his right hand near his right side of head at that moment. How did the person manage, that I don't hear one single breath? (My ears?)

Who does such a video with looking in front, back and around himself all the way from Pittsburg IN to MHB so often, that the viewer gets nearly dizzy? I'm sure, the videographer isn't a nature lover but someone curious/attentive like a spy.

With this video, all questions are answered re local or not and re knowledge of the area beforehand or not, I think.

Thank you @FromGermany for watching.

It is the first YouTube video I came across that showed the actual bridge area, there may have been three at the time right after the murders, posted in 2016, one is a drone video from late 2016.

Yes I think the user was there on different dates, the video is kind of disjointed, as we would say in English, looks like the video is a compilation of video and images from separate trips the user had taken to the bridge.

I think they are a railroad enthusiast.

I forgot, yes it starts in Pittsburg, IN, northwest of Delphi.

IMO, it gives the best "feel" of the bridge and main trail areas, pre-murders.

 

[ZoriahNZ]

GH Derrick Path on YouTube. At around 10. 30. I heard it as "Derrick asked the man if he had seen the girls. He said no. I saw a couple On the bridge" Derrick then took another path thinking the girls would be gone from there. I also heard on a Renner interview, can't find it now, that Derrick was told by this guy that he saw a couple under the bridge.

Here is the Derek's path GH video.

He talks about Derek encountering FSG at about the 10:00 minute mark. "and that person after he was asked have you seen two girls, he said: no, I saw a couple on the bridge."

So, I also looked through some other interviews with Becky and Mike Patty.

When Becky runs through the timeline, she mentions Derek and FSG at timestamp 23:18.

"He asked him did you see a couple of girls there, and he said no but there's a couple down underneath."

On this next one it's about 14 minutes in when she mentions Derek and FSG again. "He met a guy there and he asked him if he saw a couple of girls, young girls up on the bridge and he said no."

 

[Thelastleg]

The link I found was a broken one, well it said video was removed. I don't see post numbers, just pages.

Hi, I just checked again. I can definitely play the video. It was posted by Tresir2012. If you are looking on your phone you can see post numbers if you turn it sideways. Anyway I think someone else has posted it now.

 

[Thelastleg]

Here is the Derek's path GH video.

He talks about Derek encountering FSG at about the 10:00 minute mark. "and that person after he was asked have you seen two girls, he said: no, I saw a couple on the bridge."

So, I also looked through some other interviews with Becky and Mike Patty.

When Becky runs through the timeline, she mentions Derek and FSG at timestamp 23:18.

"He asked him did you see a couple of girls there, and he said no but there's a couple down underneath."

On this next one it's about 14 minutes in when she mentions Derek and FSG again. "He met a guy there and he asked him if he saw a couple of girls, young girls up on the bridge and he said no."

On the bridge, underneath the bridge. Wonder which one it actually was. If at all.

 

[Yemelyan]

I'm not local, but I follow the local news there.

I live in Fort Wayne.

I could be wrong about Ives.

Thanks.

Because former prosecutor Ives said he would return from retirement to prosecute either this case or the Flora one, when he was re-sworn I think we all got our hopes up. But in MOO he came back on as deputy only briefly to assist with workload issues in the department that were unrelated to either case. The Carroll County Prosecutor's office was looking to hire a permanent third prosecutor (not Ives, they had someone else in mind) and were seeking funding for it. There are news articles out there that detail this.

We all want movement on this case so as usual we read too much into Ives' actions IMO.

 

[Yemelyan]

I am surprised that DNA has not linked anyone yet. So many of us think it's a local person. And they have asked locals for DNA. I can't imagine that anyone would refuse. I'd love to see the list of people who have not submitted DNA and do not have any family members who have done so. I bet it's a short list.

I think "local" could be a bigger number of people than just the current population of Delphi. I'm probably going to bungle this, but when Carter talked in the April 2019 press conference about the person hiding in plain sight, he gave several definitions of "local" - lives in Delphi currently, lived in Delphi in the past, works in Delphi, and wasn't there a fourth category...like travels here frequently or worked here in the past? I'm sure someone will quickly fill in what he said. I would submit that LE are looking farther out than Delphi to the whole of Carroll County. Personally, I think the net could be as far as Logansport, Kokomo, Lafayette, etc.

Sorry, @Falling Down, I was too lazy to also bring a portion of your post over but I agree with you on railway enthusiast. In fact, I mentioned this three years ago in one of my very first posts on this forum. I've known a couple of people in my life with this interest and they do intensively research features like Monon High Bridge and they do travel long distances to visit in person. It's definitely something that needs to be looked at along with people who travel through Delphi for work but aren't actually local (insurance adjusters, auto glass repairers etc). But, I'm sure LE has thought of all of these things.

 

[MistyWaters]

Because former prosecutor Ives said he would return from retirement to prosecute either this case or the Flora one, when he was re-sworn I think we all got our hopes up. But in MOO he came back on as deputy only briefly to assist with workload issues in the department that were unrelated to either case. The Carroll County Prosecutor's office was looking to hire a permanent third prosecutor (not Ives, they had someone else in mind) and were seeking funding for it. There are news articles out there that detail this.

We all want movement on this case so as usual we read too much into Ives' actions IMO.

I agree, too much was read into his return. When Ives announced his resignation he gave six weeks notice and stated he wouldn’t leave if anything broke by his retirement date of Dec 31st/17, but not that he intended to come out of retirement and eventually return to prosecute the case.

Carroll County prosecutor to retire amidst high-profile investigations - WISH-TV | Indianapolis News | Indiana Weather | Indiana Traffic
“Don’t misunderstand me,” Ives said. “I might receive a phone call in an hour that says we really have something now, but that is not going on at the moment.”

Ives said nothing in his career compares to the Flora and Delphi investigations. He said he fully expects detectives to solve the cases, but he doesn’t expect to be the one to prosecute the suspects.

“If we had enough evidence to file charges in either one of those cases, I would rescind my resignation and make a fool out of myself,” he said. “But I would do that because I would want to be there from start to finish.”....”

 

[TheVisual]

I am surprised that DNA has not linked anyone yet. So many of us think it's a local person. And they have asked locals for DNA. I can't imagine that anyone would refuse. I'd love to see the list of people who have not submitted DNA and do not have any family members who have done so. I bet it's a short list.

My question is: Does the LE/FBI process EVERY swab? As of early 2020 my POI was still linked with the FBI. Would this be because they have just talked to him(which they did in 2018 and took a swab) or did they actually process his swab and they are watching him? I can only hope!

 

[rosesfromangels]

I am surprised that DNA has not linked anyone yet. So many of us think it's a local person. And they have asked locals for DNA. I can't imagine that anyone would refuse. I'd love to see the list of people who have not submitted DNA and do not have any family members who have done so. I bet it's a short list.

The DNA process isn't straightforward. Each state sets its own laws for who gets in to the FBI CODIS database.

The Combined DNA Index System, or CODIS, blends forensic science and computer technology into a tool for linking violent crimes. It enables federal, state, and local forensic laboratories to exchange and compare DNA profiles electronically, thereby linking serial violent crimes to each other and to known offenders. Today, over 190 public law enforcement laboratories participate in NDIS across the United States - I don't know how encompassing 190 labs are. Given the fact each state sets its own laws....I truly wonder.

Combined DNA Index System (CODIS) — FBI

Based on what is stated on the CODIS site, it does appear additional efforts are underway to better determine "kinship analysis". Kinship analysis would be used in helping to identify Does, and could help pinpoint Perps through familial DNA analysis (I surmise).

Clearly there is much more than needs to be done here, but I know we are all seeing leaps and bounds of progress being made in DNA analysis.
Someday (and let's hope not too far in the future), the DNA left at the crime scene will lead us right to the door of this miscreant Perp, and many others.

That day can't come too soon.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[carbuff]

Sorry, @Falling Down, I was too lazy to also bring a portion of your post over but I agree with you on railway enthusiast. In fact, I mentioned this three years ago in one of my very first posts on this forum. I've known a couple of people in my life with this interest and they do intensively research features like Monon High Bridge and they do travel long distances to visit in person. It's definitely something that needs to be looked at along with people who travel through Delphi for work but aren't actually local (insurance adjusters, auto glass repairers etc). But, I'm sure LE has thought of all of these things.

I'm not a railroad enthusiast to anything like the extent of those people, but if I'm in the area, I'll drive a bit out of my way to see an interesting bridge or former station or collection of engines or cars. If I had found myself in Delphi with time to kill (waiting for my truck to be loaded, taking a break from a long drive, have some time before my shift starts somewhere, maybe) I would definitely walk over to that bridge, just to have a look.

 

[DollMomma]

On the topic of complexities, I’d expect officers had to go back and reinterview or reinvestigate everything this ex-Carroll County police officer was involved in if he was assigned the Delphi murders prior to August/17.

Former deputy pleads guilty | Carroll County Comet

What did they mean By Unlawful Proposition?

 

[Yemelyan]

What did they mean By Unlawful Proposition?

It's explained here:

Carroll County deputy charged after being accused of soliciting couple for sex

 

[DollMomma]

It's explained here:

Carroll County deputy charged after being accused of soliciting couple for sex

Yup.. I googled.. he was being a nasty..

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Yes I think the user was there on different dates, the video is kind of disjointed, as we would say in English, looks like the video is a compilation of video and images from separate trips the user had taken to the bridge.

I think they are a railroad enthusiast.

I think, BG learned his future enter/exit-route with these photo shots and the video, and he memorized all very well in the shortest possible time and effortlessly at his home, awaiting "today: Febr 13th 2017 will be the day". MOO Can't sleep well after this video.

 

[Andreee]

My question is: Does the LE/FBI process EVERY swab? As of early 2020 my POI was still linked with the FBI. Would this be because they have just talked to him(which they did in 2018 and took a swab) or did they actually process his swab and they are watching him? I can only hope!

From following this case for long time, I am under the impression the DNA was either 'touch' DNA or incomplete but I could be wrong.

 

[Laura60]

It's really quite absurd.

I don’t think so.ive wondered if he did shove abbey off, get Libby to go down the hill to help her,carry to Ron’s for help....but only gets as far as final site.hidiously cruel

 

[MistyWaters]

I don’t think so.ive wondered if he did shove abbey off, get Libby to go down the hill to help her,carry to Ron’s for help....but only gets as far as final site.hidiously cruel

Your theory - after Libby observes the male pushing Abby off the bridge to intentionally cause her injury, then he suggests Libby carry Abby and they’ll all go for “help” up that very steep hill to RL’s place? I think it’s highly unlikely Libby was that naive plus she had a cellphone.