Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #124

[Deleted member 102539]

A tip

Better than "a" tip would be more of it! I don't know, which high number of tips are necessary for LE/FBI/Carter to empower them in what they are considering for a long time (I think so).

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I can’t answer for the poster, but I think the basic gist is: Who he is, and where he is, at this late date, won’t get him arrested without some kind of hard evidence linking him to the murders.

Thank you, I hadn't answered different!

 

[SMK777]

Yeah, I still believe there is a good possibility with all the tips he is in there somewhere. In the beginning many of thought this would be solved in short order. What if he was the subject of an early tip and something just got missed.

That’s certainly happened in other cases.

 

[stattlich1]

In your opinion, what is most likely to solve this case?

At this juncture, IMO, the case is cold. The only thing, IMO, that will solve this case is either the perp, or someone the perp has confided in, or possibly someone else that was involved, giving LE an account of a specific piece of information, likely related to the crime scene, that has never been disclosed.

The only other thing being necessary, IMO, is LE being able to apprehend.

Early on I thought LE may know who the perp was, but simply did not have sufficient evidence to charge. This may still possibly be the case, but I have my doubts.

I don't think this killer lived in Delphi at the time of these murders. He may have been 'from' Delphi, or may have 'visited' Delphi, but to have a voice recording, video, and photos therefrom, it is IMO highly unusual, if he was actually a resident of Delphi, that LE would not have arrested him by now.

One thing that has always bothered me is the mention of, and don't quote me, but that 500 searchers, maybe a thousand?, out and about, or whatever that number was. Talk about a disturbed crime scene. So, with that number of people, it's easy for me to see how the killer may have been right there with them, searching, assisting in evidence destruction, or confusion.

One can argue it was no big deal, but for this old boy, I can't see how it simply didn't make the entire crime scene a real mess to sift through, from the trailhead, to the cemetery, to the woods, to the actual spot where these girls bodies were found.

I'm callin' it a cold case. That's my unofficial, absolute, non professional, opinion. And I think it likely remains so until the killer, or someone he has confided in, or someone else that was an accomplice, gives LE a detailed piece of information on how those girls were killed, or some other non-public piece of data that is decisive.

<modsnip: Removed non approved video>

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Yeah, I still believe there is a good possibility with all the tips he is in there somewhere. In the beginning many of thought this would be solved in short order. What if he was the subject of an early tip and something just got missed.

I think, nothing just got missed. But if he came in the play early on among many others, nobody would have thought, he was/is capable of something like that: murder, even double murder. One hadn't had one single idea of why he should have done it. So he was out of the play as fast as he got in, I think, calls to the tipline with his name or not. LE excluded him prematurely, and that was it. Maybe, LE thought, it was someone similar to him in optics and all the tips with his name were an error, a big mistake or even personally resentment. Since 2019 LE has digested it, that he must be the perp. MOO

 

[Tealgrove]

Yeah, I still believe there is a good possibility with all the tips he is in there somewhere. In the beginning many of thought this would be solved in short order. What if he was the subject of an early tip and something just got missed.

I agree totally.

Paul Bernardo had been interviewed and had a DNA sample taken when he was roaming around in east Toronto (Scarborough) as the Scarborough Rapist.

DNA never got processed. It sat on a shelf for years.

He and his wife, Karla, went on to rape and murder 3 young teens and several more rapes.

They had his DNA and it sat on a shelf!

I'm beginning to think something similar here. I do think the murderer has either been interviewed, named or is in a tip in that mass of tips they received.

IMO, they need fresh eyes and start right back at the beginning. Start all over again.

MOO

 

[SMK777]

At this juncture, IMO, the case is cold. The only thing, IMO, that will solve this case is either the perp, or someone the perp has confided in, or possibly someone else that was involved, giving LE an account of a specific piece of information, likely related to the crime scene, that has never been disclosed.

The only other thing being necessary, IMO, is LE being able to apprehend.

Early on I thought LE may know who the perp was, but simply did not have sufficient evidence to charge. This may still possibly be the case, but I have my doubts.

I don't think this killer lived in Delphi at the time of these murders. He may have been 'from' Delphi, or may have 'visited' Delphi, but to have a voice recording, video, and photos therefrom, it is IMO highly unusual, if he was actually a resident of Delphi, that LE would not have arrested him by now.

One thing that has always bothered me is the mention of, and don't quote me, but that 500 searchers, maybe a thousand?, out and about, or whatever that number was. Talk about a disturbed crime scene. So, with that number of people, it's easy for me to see how the killer may have been right there with them, searching, assisting in evidence destruction, or confusion.

One can argue it was no big deal, but for this old boy, I can't see how it simply didn't make the entire crime scene a real mess to sift through, from the trailhead, to the cemetery, to the woods, to the actual spot where these girls bodies were found.

I'm callin' it a cold case. That's my unofficial, absolute, non professional, opinion. And I think it likely remains so until the killer, or someone he has confided in, or someone else that was an accomplice, gives LE a detailed piece of information on how those girls were killed, or some other non-public piece of data that is decisive.

<modsnip: Removed non approved video>

I agree with much of what you assert here. IMO this killer is not likely to have confided in anyone. I also don’t think it’s very likely that he had an accomplice.

So it really comes down to LE either being led to him from an old tip, or him somehow getting arrested for something else and their finding irrefutable evidence, such as souvenirs of the murders. I just really wish it would happen, and soon, because this case feels so dead now.

 

[SMK777]

I agree totally.

Paul Bernardo had been interviewed and had a DNA sample taken when he was roaming around in east Toronto (Scarborough) as the Scarborough Rapist.

DNA never got processed. It sat on a shelf for years.

He and his wife, Karla, went on to rape and murder 3 young teens and several more rapes.

They had his DNA and it sat on a shelf!

I'm beginning to think something similar here. I do think the murderer has either been interviewed, named or is in a tip in that mass of tips they received.

IMO, they need fresh eyes and start right back at the beginning. Start all over again.

MOO

True about Bernardo. The horrific torture and murder of Kristen French, among others, need never have happened had Bernardo been arrested as the Scarborough rapist through his DNA.

You’re right, they need fresh eyes. Begin again from scratch.

 

[JnRyan]

Yes I agree. Extra officers from other areas were called in to lessen the workload and iirc tips were also made through other police departments. If the information from the tip wasn’t thorough and concise an effective interview wouldn’t be possible.

Note - these comments come a year after sketch #2 was released. BBM

Apr/2020
“Mistakes may have been made early on in the rush to get a resolution to this,” Leazenby said. “It could be that just the right question was not asked or a nerve was not touched by a question to help us figure out who did this.”

The Sheriff said evidence is being revisited to determine if there are more leads than were first thought....”
Lots of tips, no arrest in 2017 double homicide | Carroll County Comet

This is my biggest reason why I believe they may have had THE tip early on and it may have fallen through the cracks. They had, what, 150-200 LE in that task force in the first couple of months, from something like 20-25 different agencies. Communication among teams and written documentation of tip follow ups had to be a monumental task in itself. A task that these LE officials probably had not experienced before on a scale this big with such a diverse group of LE.

 

[Tealgrove]

After reading the transcripts of the interviews posted up thread, I must admit that I am at a loss.

Another poster had mentioned that they thought LE had someone in their sights but didn't have enough evidence to prove it. I too was leaning that way but now I'm not so sure. I had a couple of people I was watching that I thought fit the profile but nothing. Still nothing.

I go back to that Press Conference wherein the comment about the movie "The Shack" was made and also that the "killer could be in the room right now". I was so sure they had their eyes on someone. It was so scripted and so precise and so angry. But now I have taken in the magnitude of the crime scene, the tips, the overwhelming number of people who had been searching for the girls and unbeknownst to them potentially destroying evidence. But then who knew?

I just don't know where to go with this anymore. I was so sure it was "just a matter of time" before an arrest was made and now I am convinced that we won't find their killer for many years to come.

This realization makes me very sad.

MOO

 

[Charlot123]

I agree totally.

Paul Bernardo had been interviewed and had a DNA sample taken when he was roaming around in east Toronto (Scarborough) as the Scarborough Rapist.

DNA never got processed. It sat on a shelf for years.

He and his wife, Karla, went on to rape and murder 3 young teens and several more rapes.

They had his DNA and it sat on a shelf!

I'm beginning to think something similar here. I do think the murderer has either been interviewed, named or is in a tip in that mass of tips they received.

IMO, they need fresh eyes and start right back at the beginning. Start all over again.

MOO

Let us hope there will be fresh eyes.

This is ultimately how all such cases are solved.

 

[Charlot123]

After reading the transcripts of the interviews posted up thread, I must admit that I am at a loss.

Another poster had mentioned that they thought LE had someone in their sights but didn't have enough evidence to prove it. I too was leaning that way but now I'm not so sure. I had a couple of people I was watching that I thought fit the profile but nothing. Still nothing.

I go back to that Press Conference wherein the comment about the movie "The Shack" was made and also that the "killer could be in the room right now". I was so sure they had their eyes on someone. It was so scripted and so precise and so angry. But now I have taken in the magnitude of the crime scene, the tips, the overwhelming number of people who had been searching for the girls and unbeknownst to them potentially destroying evidence. But then who knew?

I just don't know where to go with this anymore. I was so sure it was "just a matter of time" before an arrest was made and now I am convinced that we won't find their killer for many years to come.

This realization makes me very sad.

MOO

In the meantime, all that we found out about IN are shameful cases of human trafficking and the deviant nature of the Delphi judge.

 

[SMK777]

This is my biggest reason why I believe they may have had THE tip early on and it may have fallen through the cracks. They had, what, 150-200 LE in that task force in the first couple of months, from something like 20-25 different agencies. Communication among teams and written documentation of tip follow ups had to be a monumental task in itself. A task that these LE officials probably had not experienced before on a scale this big with such a diverse group of LE.

Do you think we can trust that LE is now going back through all those 2017 tips, perhaps with cold case detectives doing much of the work?

 

[JnRyan]

Let us hope there will be fresh eyes.

This is ultimately how all such cases are solved.

Indeed. I know in the field of accounting and auditing I would get hung up on document of numerical data and no matter how I tried I couldn't get it to add up or reconcil so I would ask someone else or someone would ask me about their problem. You keep looking at the data and keep making the same mistake over and over and the fresh set of eyes leads to "Why this?" or "What about this?" A very, very simple analogy to be sure, but in many cases, LE brings someone else in who doesn't subscribe to an assumption or a line of deductions, and asks the very simple, "Why?". And at that point maybe the case goes in the right direction.
LE did this here with bringing in the GBI (GA Bureau of Investigation). But this was before the 2nd sketch and whatever revelations led to that 2nd sketch. Maybe it is time again. This time with another state agency like FDLE (FL Dept of LE) or another such agency?

 

[JnRyan]

Do you think we can trust that LE is now going back through all those 2017 tips, perhaps with cold case detectives doing much of the work?

I tend to believe that at least 1st Sgt Holeman and ISP Superintendent Carter are at some point, if not periodically, are asking themselves, "What did we miss back there?" I tend to believe that is what led to the 2nd sketch and ISP Superintendent saying to the killer in the April 2019 PC that the killer didn't expect LE to change directions but now they have. Certainly Sheriff Leazenby has inferred that mistakes may have been made in recent statements. In post #888 in the media thread, Bradfordsleuth posted an article from the Carroll County Comet where Sheriff Leazenby states "Mistakes may have been made early on in a rush to get a resolution on this."
Lots of tips, no arrest in 2017 double homicide | Carroll County Comet

But as @Charlot123 indicates, maybe a fresh set of eyes is needed. So LE doesn't keep making the same mistakes over and over again.

 

[JnRyan]

I'm callin' it a cold case. That's my unofficial, absolute, non professional, opinion. And I think it likely remains so until the killer, or someone he has confided in, or someone else that was an accomplice, gives LE a detailed piece of information on how those girls were killed, or some other non-public piece of data that is decisive.

LE is likely to say, "It is not a cold case by our definition. That being we have recently received tips and we have investigators actively following up the tips. And we have an investigator (or investigators here) looking the case daily."

I see that, but I also see a case almost three and a half years old and I look at it differently than LE's official definition and have concern as to whether the trail has gone cold. For the present at least.

 

[JerseyGirl]

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Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #125