Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #127

[sunshineray]

Interesting. I thought there were three benches also, but I can't say it was a focus. While visiting I was envisioning Bridge Guy seated on that Girard bench overlooking the creek. That bench angles left, meaning Bridge Guy could hear the girls from behind him walking from the drop off area, then merely turn his head or shift his body left to see if they were suitable victims:

imgur.com

They would have also seen him sitting there, and perhaps made a brief evaluation, but basically all they'd see is the back of his head and perhaps a partial profile.

One of countless possibilities. I focused on that bench primarily because of the notion that the girls had seen him on the trail. I think that's less likely if he was near a different bench, although I can't say I remember exactly where that other bench was, the one you referred to as the 4th bench.

Otherwise those walking times from spot to spot do sound lower than I would have estimated. But I was stopping to look around and take pictures so frequently I might have lost track of the actual distances, and therefore potential if doing nothing except steady brisk pace.

I have never heard of anything resembling 8 cars. Nothing is going to shake my insistence that this is a low-traveled trail, and that's the reason Bridge Guy picked the area in the first place. If he showed up when 8 cars were there he would have departed within 30 seconds.

Just recently Anna Williams did an online interview and she said the number of people in that trail area that day was at least 50, that's what she was told.

I think if he showed up incognito in a type of disguise not looking like himself or just covering up his face with a neck gaitor and of the mind to kill, 8 cars would mean nothing to this killer.

Now there's another senario I've been entertaining that this killer, who is very familiar with the Delphi area, was full of anger and maybe there to find a specific person that day and wound up, after seeing Abby and Libby in their happy carefree youth, targeting those two young ladies just because he could. He felt that much confidence in his surroundings and abilities.

I believe this is a very controlling, organized and diabolical entity who has always come out on top of these types of things that he endeavors to do. AJMO

 

[JnRyan]

This is interesting:
Indiana Crime Rates 1960 to 2019
What jumped out is the 41% increase in rapes the year the girls were murdered, from 1,851 rapes in 2016 to 2,612 rapes in 2017. I am still trying to find how many arrests for rapes in 2017, and how many unsolved.
This increase in rapes in the same year the children were murdered seems notable.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I wonder how much of that is an actual increase and how much is due to the FBI changing the definition and criteria for rape in 2013.
Preliminary Report

I also wonder if rape is more likely to be reported now than it was in 1960. Of course, I have seen statistics that show that not all rape and sexual assault is actually reported even today.

 

[sunshineray]

Can you say that conclusively? I mean, would you bet your life on it? Did it ever cross your mind that both sketches are accurate while BG and the guy in the second scratch were in cahoots? Complete speculation, I know, but we may know about five percent of the whole story with the evidence which has been released. Investigators probably know about thirty percent of what happened, substantially higher if the murder is on audio. If it indeed was, then police know for sure if there were multiple offenders, but they could be deceiving the public to get the suspect or suspects complacent and chattery.

Sherriff Leazenby has said they could be looking for more than one. I believe an ISP officer (can't recalled which) also mentioned the possiblity of more than one killer. But ISP did also say at one point the two parts of the audio were from the same individual and the first sketch released was not their focus anymore. That is of course until the head ISP Carter said killer may wind up being a combination of the two sketches.

 

[Spartygirl]

I doubt the killer was out there fixing things on the bridge. If I remember right, the bridge was not part of the trail system at that time. I think it was still owned by the railroad company. I don’t think anybody would be out there working without their permission.

Yes, CSX owned the bridge and then Indiana Landmarks took ownership.

I would think if BG was there to fix the bridge, DM aka FSG would have known this as the McCains are all part of the Indiana project for these trails and MHB

Plus they received more that 1.2 Million from a $90 Million trail initiative project in 2019.

I was there in 2018 and nothing had even been started on the bridge.

Delphi murders: $1.2M to restore Monon High Bridge trail

 

[Yemelyan]

I was looking for DC speaking about the bridge (could not find it, but found an article in Purdue newspaper).

A new path

it is about Kelsi, and the bridge, and the effect of the murders on Delphi. I hope it is mainstream as they interview Kelsi.

And again, some dichotomy.

In the same part, “When the girls were found gone, dead, everybody in the community — all of our hearts broke at the exact same time,” Delaney said when we spoke later that day. “It was too personal. They took our kids.”

And then about the perp who needs “serious *advertiser censored*-whooping”.

So why when they found the girls, they thought about “them”, and now, “him”?

What has changed?

Sometimes native English speakers, especially rural or southern ones, will say "they" instead of "him or her" to denote that they do not know the identity of the person they are talking about. The woman who said this quote goes on later in the article to reference "he" in regard to the killer. She's not speculating that more than one person is necessarily involved IMO.

One statement of Kelsi's that I saw upon re-reading this article:

Some (people) have been helpful — she keeps a list three pages long of people she’s spoken with — while others have disrespected her family’s suffering in favor of a dramatic narrative.

Something we all should be mindful of.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I wonder how much of that is an actual increase and how much is due to the FBI changing the definition and criteria for rape in 2013.
Preliminary Report

I also wonder if rape is more likely to be reported now than it was in 1960. Of course, I have seen statistics that show that not all rape and sexual assault is actually reported even today.

Even if they did change the criteria in 2013, my comparison was between 2016 and 2017 - a 40+% increase. That's material. What happened to contribute to that spike? Agree that many rapes go unreported.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Spartygirl]

Sherriff Leazenby has said they could be looking for more than one. I believe an ISP officer (can't recalled which) also mentioned the possiblity of more than one killer. But ISP did also say at one point the two parts of the audio were from the same individual and the first sketch released was not their focus anymore. That is of course until the head ISP Carter said killer may wind up being a combination of the two sketches.

Confusing, isn't it ??
We were all looking for BG from photo from Libby's phone, on the bridge
Then came Sketch #1-- a close resemblance to BG on bridge
Then came Sketch #2- Looks nothing like BG on Bridge photo or Sketch #1
Then BG could be a "Combination" of both...YIKES

No wonder nobody has come forward ( spouse, family member, etc) of BG-- you don't know who you are looking for !!
I will say though, the traits or suspicious mannerisms AFTER the girls murders and the signs to look for from LE should be enough to make someone who may know him, suspicious.
Change in appearance, possible move away from area, heavy drinking or drugs usage since murders. Something has to change in some aspect, IMO

Why hasn't anyone come forward that knows him???
Could BG no longer be alive ???
Maybe someone has come forward but not enough evidence to detain him
Maybe he has friends in "high places"

UGH-- this case still gets to me even after 3.5 years.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Sometimes native English speakers, especially rural or southern ones, will say "they" instead of "him or her" to denote that they do not know the identity of the person they are talking about. The woman who said this quote goes on later in the article to reference "he" in regard to the killer. She's not speculating that more than one person is necessarily involved IMO.

One statement that I saw upon re-reading this article:

Some (people) have been helpful — she keeps a list three pages long of people she’s spoken with — while others have disrespected her family’s suffering in favor of a dramatic narrative.

Something we all should be mindful of.

Thank you for highlighting Kelsi’s statement. At such a young age, she and the families were thrown into the limelight under the worst possible circumstances.

Though I began following the case from the day they went missing, it has caused me to back away from this thread on many occasions.

I take heart in this statement by Kelsi, from the same article: “Sometimes you have to deal with the sensationalized part of it to get your story out there,” she says.

jmo

 

[sunshineray]

So I'm new to this thread and am trying to catch up, as I live in Indiana (about an hour from Delphi) and am somewhat familiar with this case (though admittedly haven't followed it closely). I've scanned through the media thread, but am curious as to what the prevailing thought (if there is one) seems to be on the forum:

I know initially the belief the BG was likely from the Delphi area, or at least very familiar with it. Is this still what LE seems to be leaning toward?

Is there any clarity on the DNA situation? I watched the Genetic Detective earlier this year and thought about this case - seems like it would be a perfect scenario for that approach - does the lack of progress there seem to indicate the lack of a full DNA profile?

I think at the very beginning local LE, while checking local reprobates to eliminate knowns, were probably thinking more along the lines of it being an outsider drifter type. I think that changed after Libby's phone revealed things to them. Something happen at the very end of 2018 and the start of 2019 that got investigators really thinking local and that they'd been mislead somehow in the early going.

As far as DNA, I 'm leaning towards only a partial profile being found. Maybe that Dec 2018 sending off DNA to Quantico helped establish the DNA they do have comes from a local family but in very broad terms.

 

[sunshineray]

Confusing, isn't it ??
We were all looking for BG from photo from Libby's phone, on the bridge
Then came Sketch #1-- a close resemblance to BG on bridge
Then came Sketch #2- Looks nothing like BG on Bridge photo or Sketch #1
Then BG could be a "Combination" of both...YIKES

No wonder nobody has come forward ( spouse, family member, etc) of BG-- you don't know who you are looking for !!
I will say though, the traits or suspicious mannerisms AFTER the girls murders and the signs to look for from LE should be enough to make someone who may know him, suspicious.
Change in appearance, possible move away from area, heavy drinking or drugs usage since murders. Something has to change in some aspect, IMO

Why hasn't anyone come forward that knows him???
Could BG no longer be alive ???
Maybe someone has come forward but not enough evidence to detain him
Maybe he has friends in "high places"

UGH-- this case still gets to me even after 3.5 years.

It gets to me more because it's been 3 and a half years. Mixed messages aside, I have to have the faith that the Paty's, Williams and KG have stated over and over that they have for the investigators. I have to believe they have good reason for it.

 

[sunshineray]

<modsnip>

They have the killer on video in a town of 2800, that's a high school. If they haven't figured out the identity of the killer by now I think it's safe to say its amateur hour.

I disagree. The law is the law. The prosecutors will only get one chance at this. LE may know quite a lot without having the evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt...yet. Even with full DNA successful prosecution can be challenging. Knowing and proving are miles apart within the law.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I think at the very beginning local LE, while checking local reprobates to eliminate knowns, were probably thinking more along the lines of it being an outsider drifter type. I think that changed after Libby's phone revealed things to them. Something happen at the very end of 2018 and the start of 2019 that got investigators really thinking local and that they'd been mislead somehow in the early going.

As far as DNA, I 'm leaning towards only a partial profile being found. Maybe that Dec 2018 sending off DNA to Quantico helped establish the DNA they do have comes from a local family but in very broad terms.

I still have faith that DNA will eventually be a solid piece of the evidence in the case. Techniques that were once rudimentary will be improved upon, and a DNA sample that was - back then, not quite enough - may be more conclusive in the future. And along with other evidence gathered at the time, will one day be enough for an arrest and prosecution.

I continue to hold onto that hope.

jmo

 

[sunshineray]

I was looking for DC speaking about the bridge (could not find it, but found an article in Purdue newspaper).

A new path

it is about Kelsi, and the bridge, and the effect of the murders on Delphi. I hope it is mainstream as they interview Kelsi.

And again, some dichotomy.

In the same part, “When the girls were found gone, dead, everybody in the community — all of our hearts broke at the exact same time,” Delaney said when we spoke later that day. “It was too personal. They took our kids.”

And then about the perp who needs “serious *advertiser censored*-whooping”.

So why when they found the girls, they thought about “them”, and now, “him”?

What has changed?

Ok that picture of the door with the 3-D images, what the heck sketch are those made from? It doesn't look like the first because the chin has no beard the I can see. But it has a cap on the man which was only in the first sketch. The story was done in June this year too, well after the first sketch was taken down from ISP website and the April 2019 press conference. What the heck picture was used?

Sorry...in this piece...just zoom in on the photo of the doorway.
A new path

 

[mom2chloe]

Who thinks the DNA sample was lost or otherwise compromised at this point? As much as I hate to speak these words I am seriously doubtful.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Who thinks the DNA sample was lost or otherwise compromised at this point? As much as I hate to speak these words I am seriously doubtful.

No. It takes a ridiculous amount of time and paperwork for each test. I have seen this with another case where the family got frustrated and obtained status info via a FOIA. They were shocked by how much effort and red tape is required for each test.
The time is about right. They are still running tests no doubt.

amateur opinion and speculation

 

[sunshineray]

No. It takes a ridiculous amount of time and paperwork for each test. I have seen this with another case where the family got frustrated and obtained status info via a FOIA. They were shocked by how much effort and red tape is required for each test.
The time is about right. They are still running tests no doubt.

amateur opinion and speculation

When you say they're still running tests do you mean tests on the DNA from crime scene? Or do you mean everytime they've want to check a possible match?

 

[rosesfromangels]

When you say they're still running tests do you mean tests on the DNA from crime scene? Or do you mean everytime they've want to check a possible match?

Both, but I was referring to the DNA.

 

[retrometro]

I believe at the April 2019 press conference LE, rather emphatically, stated, before playing the expanded audio, that this was the voice of one person. One person was speaking and they wanted everyone to know that. They also have the video, so I feel certain they know, without a doubt, that is one person accosting the girls at the bridge and saying the words, “Guys...down the hill“. I can think of absolutely no reason for LE to be lying about this.

Agreed. I'd be willing to make a strong wager that LE has analyzed the audio very carefully for clues and that they have almost certainly involved linguistics experts in that analysis. If there's more than one person speaking, they would say so.

 

[Charlot123]

Ok that picture of the door with the 3-D images, what the heck sketch are those made from? It doesn't look like the first because the chin has no beard the I can see. But it has a cap on the man which was only in the first sketch. The story was done in June this year too, well after the first sketch was taken down from ISP website and the April 2019 press conference. What the heck picture was used?

Sorry...in this piece...just zoom in on the photo of the doorway.
A new path

I saw it.. odd to the extreme. Probably the closest to the video.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Sometimes native English speakers, especially rural or southern ones, will say "they" instead of "him or her" to denote that they do not know the identity of the person they are talking about. The woman who said this quote goes on later in the article to reference "he" in regard to the killer. She's not speculating that more than one person is necessarily involved IMO.

One statement of Kelsi's that I saw upon re-reading this article:

Some (people) have been helpful — she keeps a list three pages long of people she’s spoken with — while others have disrespected her family’s suffering in favor of a dramatic narrative.

Something we all should be mindful of.

bbm
I find the whole story/case dramatic indeed.