Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #127

[minazoe]

this one
FBI: Keyes not likely involved in 2006 Snohomish County mother-daughter deaths

 

[Deleted member 102539]

^^BBM.... Ok it’s the middle of the night, can’t sleep, catching up... had to bring this post forward.

I’m laughing out loud at this one!

Don't laugh out loud at the imagination of a BG-baby pic, haha! I can show you one. Though I think, it wouldn't be helpful.

 

[JnRyan]

Kelsi comes on at about 52:00.

• She was asked by a caller how much time had passed from when the girls asked to go to the trail & when she said yes & took them. She responded they asked initially a couple of hours earlier. She said no. They asked again after about an hour and she said yes.

• Social media aspect was brought up. Gray saying thats all been investigated & nothing was found. She says she doesn't think anything has been ruled out.

• She talked about the location where the shoe was found and the moment when a searcher called out he saw a shoe. She says she was on the private drive directly across from where the girls were found. The searcher saw something & used his phone to zoom in across the creek & then saw the girls.

• They discussed the Evansville case & the similarities. She said LE has been interested in whether the cases could be connected.

• They discussed the car in the cps parking lot. She said it was not the car she saw when dropping the girls off & that vehicle was ruled out by LE.

I paraphrased everything, hopefully I did not make any errors. IMO

In discussing the car in the CPS lot, Gray points out that a building across the road (self storage business?) had a security camera that might have picked up the vehicle. However, he notes it might have been too far away to capture enough detail. I had wondered about earlier, but that is the first time I've heard anyone speculate about what that camera might have captured.

 

[BigTexas]

Don't laugh out loud at the imagination of a BG-baby pic, haha! I can show you one. Though I think, it wouldn't be helpful.

You'll flip when you see the sketch of BG in utero.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Kelsi called in to the live this evening, for anyone interested. She's on air now:

At the beginning of the video I'm seeing three things, which look like people, at the end of the rails, one pink, one white, one dark. Don't tell me, they are the bollards.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

You'll flip when you see the sketch of BG in utero.

 

[Daisy1980]

I have also tried to go back to myself at that age or think of how my kids who are close to that age would act.

I don't think this was a planned meet up. The picture the girls took on the bridge was relaxed and fun and seemed fairly carefree.

Then something happened that was terrifying enough to give them the foresight to start recording. It also seems like they realized the potential danger from a distance if they were able to take the pic of BG on the bridge unless they were already attempting to get away at that point.

Could it be a weapon, did they stumble on something they right away realized they shouldn't have seen?

I don't get the sense BG was trying to lure with something or trick them into trusting him or engaging much at all.

They noticed him beforehand
Police: Delphi murder victims spoke of man behind them in audio played for family | wthr.com

 

[Awsi Dooger]

In discussing the car in the CPS lot, Gray points out that a building across the road (self storage business?) had a security camera that might have picked up the vehicle. However, he notes it might have been too far away to capture enough detail. I had wondered about earlier, but that is the first time I've heard anyone speculate about what that camera might have captured.

That was the same conclusion I had when I visited Delphi. I drove over there and took a look at the Andersons Plant buildings and that area in general, to see if any of them had a decent angle and distance to pick up anything from the CPS building. There was only one directly across and reasonably close. But not close enough to logically pick up anything like facial features or a license plate. I concluded a camera in that area could only be used to determine time frame coming and goings, plus general features. Maybe the type of vehicle.

This is a photo I took, mostly to demonstrate the distance involved. County Road 300 would be smack to the right and just out of view. Then the CPS building immediately across the road:

imgur.com

This is the same building in a Gray Hughes video, depicting the camera on the left corner of the building. Gray speculates what the camera scope might have been. This is considerably further away than Libby's video:

 

[Yemelyan]

this one
FBI: Keyes not likely involved in 2006 Snohomish County mother-daughter deaths

I've always found this case very interesting. Like Delphi, two victims, isolated trail, and many details have been held back by authorities. The victims in this case were killed by gunshots to the head and their bodies may have been posed. Their surviving relatives have never been told many details, including if they were sexually assaulted or who was shot first.

An article that goes into a lot of detail not given elsewhere is this one: Cast into the path of a killer

It makes you wonder what exactly was at this scene as witnesses describe not even being able to determine the victims' gender and LE originally told the husband/dad that the victims' wounds looked similar to a wild animal attack.

LE in this case seemed to look much harder at family members than LE did in the Delphi case IMO. I'm not saying a particular family member was responsible but I do find it interesting that the investigative path they were on seemed so different than in Delphi.

 

[Trebor5591]

Lots of tips, no arrest in 2017 double homicide | Carroll County Comet

This news story is 6 months old but it provides a good overview of where LE is now at regarding this case. It is based on an interview with Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby. the main points as I see them are:

• mistakes were made during the early phases of the investigation
• the two suspect sketches, which differed considerably from each other, were supplied by two different people near the scene on Monday, Feb. 13. Both images are of different persons of interest.
• Libby took a video on her cell phone of someone walking on the bridge which is believed to be the perpetrator, or one of the perpetrators, of the crimes.
• Leazenby advised there is DNA from the crime scene but refused to divulge from where it originated.
• Leasenby said there is “suggestive” evidence of fingerprints found at the crime scene.
• Leazenby said, from the evidence found in the area, the victims were killed on the same property on which their bodies were found.
• Leazenby stated the investigation is not “stalled.” And it has not been determined if there was one or more perpetrators.
• Leazenby speculated that a perpetrator has probably been interviewed by investigators about the crime, but was not immediately recognized as a offender
• Leazenby said he believes a local, or locals, committed the crimes. Leazenby said whoever did this “knew the lay of the land.”
• Leazenby said when an arrest is made, community members will likely be shocked at the identity of those arrested. The perpetrator will likely be someone who is fairly well-known in the community.

 

[JenniD]

• “the two suspect sketches, which differed considerably from each other, were supplied by two different people near the scene on Monday, Feb. 13. Both images are of different persons of interest.“
• 
  
• “Leazenby said when an arrest is made, community members will likely be shocked at the identity of those arrested. The perpetrator will likely be someone who is fairly well-known in the community.“

That sounds to me like they have a person or persons in mind. Sure fits the identities of the 2 people I have in mind. My POI #1 is taller but I have seen pictures of him wearing jeans that were too long, longer hair than he currently has, and my POI #2 is a perfect picture of sketch #2, and they are friends. Absolutely no reason I can think of why these two would be involved but Both would definitely be a shock to the community. Another interesting fact- POI #2 has a sister who could be a twin to Abby. All very strange
I have turned this in to Tip line and nothing has happened so pretty sure it has nothing to do with the case it does make you say Hmmm
QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[minazoe]

• "'Leazenby speculated that a perpetrator has probably been interviewed by investigators about the crime, but was not immediately recognized as a offender""

to me this feels like the killer has been in contact in some way ..that he thinks the community will be shocked etc..
is very weird...that he thinks its a well known person..in the community.

that just doesn't seem likely at this point. I mean people should be freaking out if he's a neighbor.

I for one will be very suprised to say the least. mOO

 

[jillybean51]

BBM part - I don't know if you mean the killer or a family member/friend who could ID the killer. But that brings up a thought that had not occurred to me before - what if there aren't any crimes similar since then because the killer himself is dead. Suicide, car accident or even Covid-19 are possibilities. When LE found out that the murderer of Genevieve Zitricki in SC (1990), rapist of 14 yo girl in Memphis (1997) and the murderer of Sherri and Megan Scherer in Portageville MO (1998) were the same person based on the DNA a lot of us wondered why the murderer was not tied to any other crimes since 1998. When GEDmatch made the identification in 2018, it was discovered that the person, Robert Brashears, committed suicide in 1999 when he was stopped by LE for driving with stolen tags on his vehicle. If this killer here committed suicide I wonder if LE or the medical examiner would obtain a DNA sample. They most likely wouldn't with a car accident or a Covid-19 death.

Has anyone checked out obituaries in Delphi ,during the week after the murders?There may be a clue in one , as to the deceased work or loved activities.Don’t post any theories or names ,on here, but I would love to hear thoughts through PM’s.

 

[jillybean51]

The white things look like white ties on a hoodie blowing in the wind to me. The goat suggestion was made by somebody only in jest iirc.

I think it looks like the apparatus a meth tweaker uses.
www.verywellmind.com › ... › Meth
Web results
Shake and Bake Method Can Explode - Verywell Mind
Also known as the "one-pot" method, in this scenario meth is produced in a two-liter soda bottle. A few cold pills are mixed with common


Images

 

[BNA]

• "'Leazenby speculated that a perpetrator has probably been interviewed by investigators about the crime, but was not immediately recognized as a offender""

to me this feels like the killer has been in contact in some way ..that he thinks the community will be shocked etc..
is very weird...that he thinks its a well known person..in the community.

that just doesn't seem likely at this point. I mean people should be freaking out if he's a neighbor.

I for one will be very suprised to say the least. mOO

Has anyone checked out obituaries in Delphi ,during the week after the murders?There may be a clue in one , as to the deceased work or loved activities.Don’t post any theories or names ,on here, but I would love to hear thoughts through PM’s.

I guess that it is possible that this case has been resolved in an "extra-judicial" fashion.

 

[MistyWaters]

I think it looks like the apparatus a meth tweaker uses.
www.verywellmind.com › ... › Meth
Web results
Shake and Bake Method Can Explode - Verywell Mind
Also known as the "one-pot" method, in this scenario meth is produced in a two-liter soda bottle. A few cold pills are mixed with common


Images

Throughout all this time LE has consistently stated they believe the suspect was wearing a hoodie. Every hoodie I’ve ever seen has a tie to tighten the hood part and on some, the strings are white even if the hoodie is a dark colour. So that’s the basis of my speculation, although I appreciate it bottoms out on the scale of creative thinking.

It’s just that I can’t imagine a potential killer walking a public trail system with objects that would surely attract attention, sticking out from the top of his jacket.

BBM

“FBI description: The FBI said the suspected killer is a white man who weighs between 180 and 200 pounds. He stands between 5 feet, 6 inches tall and 5 feet, 8 inches tall, and was wearing blue jeans, a blue jacket or coat and a hoodie.
Delphi killings: What we know about killings of Abby and Libby

 

[Ozoner]

That sounds to me like they have a person or persons in mind. Sure fits the identities of the 2 people I have in mind. My POI #1 is taller but I have seen pictures of him wearing jeans that were too long, longer hair than he currently has, and my POI #2 is a perfect picture of sketch #2, and they are friends. Absolutely no reason I can think of why these two would be involved but Both would definitely be a shock to the community. Another interesting fact- POI #2 has a sister who could be a twin to Abby. All very strange
I have turned this in to Tip line and nothing has happened so pretty sure it has nothing to do with the case it does make you say Hmmm

I don't think they have a suspect in mind. I think that verbiage like that comes straight out of the FBI profile. The FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit was undoubtedly called in very early and probably determined that the perp was not someone on the fringes but rather someone with some standing in the community—not necessarily a community leader, but someone with a respectable job, a family, etc.

 

[Yemelyan]

Yes, but what if the person has the legal reason to refuse the DNA. Not specifically what I am thinking of, but I can imagine the situation when someone would refuse, and no one would have the right to ask.

I might even imagine a very perplexing, twisted, situation when no one would ask, or even hint that they might be interested. Sooner or later, though. He’ll be found.

Nothing justifies what he did.

I thought that a demonstration of probable cause and a court order could compel a person to give DNA (or with a warrant police could collect it covertly), but I'm not a lawyer so maybe I'm wrong about that. I thought this was what TL meant when he indicated that LE have their ways of getting DNA from someone who refuses if they really want it.

 

[Paige Franklin]

They noticed him beforehand
Police: Delphi murder victims spoke of man behind them in audio played for family | wthr.com

Thank you! I hadn't seen this article!

 

[Ozoner]

Throughout all this time LE has consistently stated they believe the suspect was wearing a hoodie. Every hoodie I’ve ever seen has a tie to tighten the hood part and on some, the strings are white even if the hoodie is a dark colour. So that’s the basis of my speculation, although I appreciate it bottoms out on the scale of creative thinking.

It’s just that I can’t imagine a potential killer walking a public trail system with objects that would surely attract attention, sticking out from the top of his jacket.

BBM

“FBI description: The FBI said the suspected killer is a white man who weighs between 180 and 200 pounds. He stands between 5 feet, 6 inches tall and 5 feet, 8 inches tall, and was wearing blue jeans, a blue jacket or coat and a hoodie.
Delphi killings: What we know about killings of Abby and Libby

I'm not sure how they determined his height, but 5'6" is pretty short for a Caucasian man. I can't help but wonder whether the height estimate is off based on the way BG is slouching.