Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #128

[ShamelessObserver]

I wonder if BG has ever contacted LE, taunting them like other killers have been known to do. Would they make that public though?

 

[Wynnswick]

I wonder if BG has ever contacted LE, taunting them like other killers have been known to do. Would they make that public though?

Surely only a very small minority of such offenders would risk communicating with LE, in which case in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, it seems very unlikely.

And even if he had contacted LE to taunt them, it surely would be public knowledge? LE would presumably want to keep the channel of communication open in the hope he might reach out again and provide some further clue about his identity, so how else would they respond if not through some public forum (not like he is going to leave a return address)?

 

[asyousay]

It is so sad that with everything LE does have, it's the one thing they don't have to solve this and that is someone coming forward. I do think he knew the area, been there before, but lives far enough away now that no one is making the connection. I also think a mom, wife, sister or GF, know who he is, but are unwilling to come forward at this time. They may not know 100% but they are suspicious of him but maybe afraid for various reasons. I hope LE gets that tip soon, for the sake of the next victim or victims he targets.

Great post


If you heard that voice and see that video you would have a inkling of who that was if you knew the person.

 

[TTF14]

There was a podcast that had 3 retired FBI agents that talked about the Delphi murders. I'm sorry I don't recall their names. It was said in discussions that most likely the killer had a "lair" (the crime scene) all prepared to bring his victims there.

I've wondered if actual knowledge of the Delphi crime scene had led them to think that or it was a generalization developed by years of experience in murder, by their profiling skills.

What are your thoughts about a prepared "lair"? The thing that makes me hit a brick wall with that is the fording of the creek in Winter. Why would an inexperienced killer even include that in their plan? If the Delphi killer was experienced and not a first time offender, again why make a plan to cross that creek?

Was it the Best Case Worse Case podcast (episode 122)? I'd post a link, but since it's not MSM I might not be allowed to do that.

ETA: Yes, it is this one.....I just listened and this is the one where the one profiler talks about a lair. This is a really good podcast episode.

 

[TTF14]

I wonder if BG has ever contacted LE, taunting them like other killers have been known to do. Would they make that public though?

I doubt they'd make that public. I had theorized that after the press conference, the one with the "new" sketch when Doug Carter was so angry, that they were indeed being taunted because of the "you want to know what we know" phrase. I even theorized that the killer had offered up something to them if they'd say certain things in the press conference, such as how the bodies were found and/or posed, since Doug Carter specifically said the way you left them is not the way they are now (paraphrasing) and was very angry when he said it (i.e. refusing to actually say how they were found in defiance or something).

 

[MistyWaters]

I doubt they'd make that public. I had theorized that after the press conference, the one with the "new" sketch when Doug Carter was so angry, that they were indeed being taunted because of the "you want to know what we know" phrase. I even theorized that the killer had offered up something to them if they'd say certain things in the press conference, such as how the bodies were found and/or posed, since Doug Carter specifically said the way you left them is not the way they are now (paraphrasing) and was very angry when he said it (i.e. refusing to actually say how they were found in defiance or something).

It’s possible but on the other hand the”you want to know what we know” comment by Carter may simply relate to the FBI behavioural profile released earlier in this case and a common characteristic to most, if not all, unarrested suspects in other cases as well. It would seem a killer probably gets off on believing they’ve gotten away with their evil deed because they’ve not been identified and certain facts about what they did appear unknown - otherwise if they yearned to get arrested they’d just turn themselves in. JMO

BBM
FBI releases list of behavioral clues to help track down suspect in murders of teens near Indiana trail
The FBI has since released a list of behavioral clues that could help lead investigators to the killer or killers. The agency is asking the public to be on the lookout for anyone who has exhibited the following signs:

• Changes in their daily routines, including modified sleep patterns
• Increased use of alcohol or drugs
• Cleaned or disposed of clothing and / or shoes that might have been worn on Feb. 13
• Missed work or other engagements
• Anxiety, nervousness or irritability
• Excessive attention to the investigation, media coverage or lengthy discussions related to the murders

 

[K9Enzo]

@K9Enzo Help please! TIA!

Hello,

Always my disclaimer: on WS my posts are my opinions only.

(Someone up thread mentioned Kat Warren and her book – What the Dog Knows. Fantastic book! I met Kat several years ago at an event. We both have/had a GSD with the same lineage on the motherline and enjoyed chatting about the strong working ability this line produces. Anyways….)

When the Sheriff talked in the last Down the Hill podcast about regrets, he mentioned (IIRC) his was canceling the team of Bloodhounds that were coming in from out of state after the girls were found. His line of thinking might have been, the girls were found, no need for the dogs anymore. Not all departments are well versed on how dog teams can be utilized. Many departments do not even have a K9 of their own.

IMO only, I have heard of dogs being used in the reverse. Example -where a victim survived an assault but was not sure the exact spot the crime occurred because they escaped the scene or was left by the suspect. Trained dogs were able to find the original crime scene by tracking the scent of the victim or the potential suspect back to where the assault occurred. The victim knew where they were when the crime started (example: the park, running on a road, etc.). From here valuable evidence was collected on the suspect. Think of evidence that could fall to the ground from both parties during a struggle or just movement in general.

Maybe this was a missed opportunity in the Delphi case. Where trained dogs could have possibly found an additional crime scene and additional evidence of the suspect. Maybe where the girls were found is not the only location they were harmed or where the crime began. I imagine a scent pool that was heavy from physical exhaustion and adrenal gland secretions from all parties.

I believe he mentioned a regret of canceling the dog team because maybe they could have established a direction of travel of the suspect when they left the scene. Could there have been more evidence left behind, taken them to a specific parking lot, road, maybe even a hideout location? There are many possibilities here. Or, having that team would not have mattered at all.

There are dog handlers that are highly trained in evidence gathering for their dog (for example a scent article, even transferring scent from one source to another for the dog). The best scenario is the dog team is first on the scene, but that does not always happen. The handler will always prefer to collect the article themselves with the someone from the calling agency present . These are trailing dogs and mostly how Bloodhounds are trained. Scene contamination is always a concern and just happens. For example: in this case where they are searching for two teen girls who were overdue for a pickup from the park. They probably thought they were injured and waiting for a rescue. Volunteer searches and LE were walking all over the park looking for them. Coming and going, vehicles coming and going. When they were found, it was obvious it was a crime scene and everything shifted dramatically. Highly trained dog teams can work through this successfully sometimes.

To fully understand how these dogs work (canine olfactory), what discipline they are trained in, you almost have to become a student in scent theory.

Many people think all “tracking” dogs are trained using the specific scent of target subject. Not all dogs are trailing dogs. Some are air-scent dogs looking for any human in the area. These dogs are utilized often in Wilderness SAR, FEMA disaster areas, as an example.

I’m not a good source of info by getting into the weeds of what about this, or that, what if the victim touched this, or the bad guy did this or that.

We don’t know, I believe, how dogs were used in this case at all. These are just my opinions on what the Sheriff might have meant. I’m also not implying the investigation was negligent. I think reflecting back many people would have tried something different. That’s a normal process that will keep some up at night. IMO

 

[JnRyan]

who is Barbara Walker?

Barbara Walker was the ex-wife of spy John Walker. She turned JW into the FBI, but she later said if she knew her son was involved too she would never have turned him in. I doubt there is anyone that knows or suspects the killer of Abigail and Liberty, but if there is and that person is a mother or grandmother there is a possibility they won't turn him in.

 

[JerseyGirl]

This thread is full and will be closed. Please continue here:

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #129