Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #132

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I agree with you to an extent, but I hope you're exaggerating a bit LOL.
Maybe a little! They often say someone is around my age, like a teacher or coach. Then I meet the person and they’re clearly 20 years older or 10 years younger than me. It’s probably more accurate to say they can’t tell the difference between 30 and 50. And IMO, that’s the age range BG was in. I’m 42 and I think I could tell if someone was 10 years older or younger.
 
OR: LE could now be saying he may appear older than his true age to encourage younger people who may have seen him on the trails that day to come forward. If he was 45, but may have been witnessed by kids as young as Abby and Libby, he may have been something like "20 ish" in their eyes. Its possible he was seen by others, and they just never thought much of it due to the older looking POI in the original sketch.
I think that it's simply a conflict between the estimated age provided by the witness and the age that the BAU's profile says that he is likely to be.

I think the witness described a teenager, and the BAU's profile probably says that he's likely to be 25 to 40. But it might be the profile that's wrong. Profiles aren't foolproof. There are always outliers.
 
Maybe a little! They often say someone is around my age, like a teacher or coach. Then I meet the person and they’re clearly 20 years older or 10 years younger than me. It’s probably more accurate to say they can’t tell the difference between 30 and 50. And IMO, that’s the age range BG was in. I’m 42 and I think I could tell if someone was 10 years older or younger.
I think I could, too—most of the time. I'm around your age, and at my 2o-year high-school reunion, I remember that one of my classmates looked identical to the way he looked at 18. If I hadn't known him and had passed him on the street, I would have thought that he was a teenager. On the other hand, another one of my classmates looked like he could have been everyone else's father—or the grandfather of the guy who looked 18. Some people just age better than others. (And then there are smokers, who usually look 50 by the time they're 30.)
 
When they say, “private drive”, does it mean that random cars can’t use it? Or are these driveways to the houses only?

It would be important for me, because the parcels of land in rural Indiana are definitely huge. If the killer was an outsider, where he parked makes a difference. So what denotes “private driveway”? Could he park on the road under the bridge?
I wonder if that road was originally an access road so work could be done on that end of the bridge without hauling stuff across it. The house at the end of the road wasn't built in the mid 1980's. I wonder if buying the road under the bridge cut off any future construction in that area. She also has a classified forest designation on a lot of the acreage.
 
I wonder if that road was originally an access road so work could be done on that end of the bridge without hauling stuff across it. The house at the end of the road wasn't built in the mid 1980's. I wonder if buying the road under the bridge cut off any future construction in that area. She also has a classified forest designation on a lot of the acreage.

As the road ran right under the far end of the bridge I’d agree, I think it’s original purpose was connected to the railway. As it was close to the creek as well, it might’ve served as a watering stop for steam engines in days gone by.

If anyone is looking at this map, add “roads” from the left hand list (shown in green). It’s also clickable regarding land parcel ownership.

upload_2021-3-28_22-40-15.jpeg

Beacon - Carroll County, IN - Map
 
The first suspect was described as in his 40s to 50s, what the focus was on for almost two years. Even if the witness involved in the 2nd sketch thought the suspect was younger, it’d probably be prudent for LE to announce a possible age range of 18 to 40 rather than, say 18 to 30, leaving the insinuation the suspect couldn’t possibly be in his 30s.

We know sketches are not photographs so as long as LE gets the right tip leading to the identity of the killer, I think his age is less insignificant.

Nothing indicates LE “know” who the killer is because this case is still unsolved with no arrest, unfortunately. JMO
Why say may appear younger than their true age when releasing the new-but-orginal made sketch? Why even put that language out there as part of the description?

In looking at the photograph, which most think looks like an older man, wouldn't you more likely say, May appear older than their true age?

Just the fact that they officially lowered the age range makes me think that sketch made very soon, within days, after murders but disregarded was a huge oversight but with reasoning that made sense at the time.

By April 2019 PC I think LE had backtracked, possibly because of a tip, and then realized someone lied to them. They know who that someone is but have not enough physical evidence and/or can't break false alibi(s) AJMO
 
This is an interesting thought.

My assumption is that the teen girl who claimed in DTH to have a conversation with BG that day was not able to closely guess his age. I have teens around A&L’s age and they can’t tell the difference between a 25 year old and a 65 year old. They’re both just “old” to kids. I think some of the other witnesses were older than teenage and had a more accurate estimate of his age for LE. For example the teen witness said he was old, like 50ish. And the adult witnesses put him around 20ish. Pair that with the video that looks like an older man in one frame and a younger man in another and there’s a lot of conflicting info about his age.
I think that might be why that first sketch, now the current one, was not thought to be accurate.

Something happened after much investigation, to drastically change everything. They were back to starting over, using that originally given sketch and talking like there had been a betrayal and an epiphany.
 
They don't know who the killer is.

The things they were saying about him were straight out of the FBI profile (in addition to the physical description, which came from a witness).
Why bring up a car, asking for help ID-ing it...two years later during a press conference where they said we have a new strategy? That's not FBI profiling info.
 
When they say, “private drive”, does it mean that random cars can’t use it? Or are these driveways to the houses only?

It would be important for me, because the parcels of land in rural Indiana are definitely huge. If the killer was an outsider, where he parked makes a difference. So what denotes “private driveway”? Could he park on the road under the bridge?

Saw this one answered in a Gray Hughes vid. He's able to show exactly where the private drive ends and changes into being called the Hwy - it's at the intersection. The private drive is very long though.

Yes, BG could have been parked on the private drive, but dunno about under the bridge part.

Occam's Razor says their killer likely parked at the back of the cemetery but anybody that knows the answer isn't talking. There is less chance of someone noticing him leaving the cemetery than him walking way out to the old CPS location after committing a double homicide of two young local girls!

Find the killer!!! BG is a cowardly killer of children.
BG on Monon High Bridge.png
Look how scary and creepy he is here
BG scary.png
 
When they say, “private drive”, does it mean that random cars can’t use it? Or are these driveways to the houses only?

It would be important for me, because the parcels of land in rural Indiana are definitely huge. If the killer was an outsider, where he parked makes a difference. So what denotes “private driveway”? Could he park on the road under the bridge?
MOO stranger, even anyone driving down that private drive would likely be noticed. No one is supposed to access the bridge or trail from the south side it's private.
 
This is an interesting thought.

My assumption is that the teen girl who claimed in DTH to have a conversation with BG that day was not able to closely guess his age. I have teens around A&L’s age and they can’t tell the difference between a 25 year old and a 65 year old. They’re both just “old” to kids. I think some of the other witnesses were older than teenage and had a more accurate estimate of his age for LE. For example the teen witness said he was old, like 50ish. And the adult witnesses put him around 20ish. Pair that with the video that looks like an older man in one frame and a younger man in another and there’s a lot of conflicting info about his age.

My idea is, that the witness perhaps said: "The man I saw looked just like ........ (fill in a name), just similar to pics, I've seen of him. But Idk, if it was him indeed." This statement might have been the basis for the age range 18-40 and the person, the teen referred to for comparison, is in between that range. IMO
 
Why bring up a car, asking for help ID-ing it...two years later during a press conference where they said we have a new strategy? That's not FBI profiling info.
That isn't about him. I said that the things they were saying about him were from the profile. (It's about power to him, he wants to know what LE knows, etc.)
Information about the car likely comes from eyewitness information.
They clearly do not know who he is. Trying to interpret their comments to mean that they "know who he is but can't arrest him yet" is pure wishful thinking.
 
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That isn't about him. I said that the things they were saying about him were from the profile. (It's about power to him, he wants to know what LE knows, etc.)
Information about the car likely comes from eyewitness information.
They clearly do not know who he is. Trying to interpret their comments to mean that they "know who he is but can't arrest him yet" is pure wishful thinking.

Wishful thinking, for sure. The theory “they know who it is but can’t arrest him yet” is also counterproductive, maybe even harmful, to this case ever getting solved.

The family and LE have devoted considerable time and effort in appealing to the public for that one tip to help identify the killer. If LE already knows who it is, why bother is what people would be thinking.

JMO
 
Some are saying they don't think the girls sensed trouble until later, not when they were approached. I think Sgt. Riley's words put it into very clear focus just how terrified those two sweet girls were as soon as the killer made his way to confront them.

Riley heard the entire tape. Therefore he is describing the girls' reaction upon being confronted. I don't think anybody has ever said the girls weren't terrified at that point. Well, other than those who believe in the authority figure angle. The less I say about that, the better. I can just imagine Libby looking at that guy and confusing him with a park ranger.

The girls did not sense danger when he was first being filmed. Otherwise they had plenty of time. During those final steps leading off the bridge everything changes, as he says something and/or pulls a weapon.
 
Saw this one answered in a Gray Hughes vid. He's able to show exactly where the private drive ends and changes into being called the Hwy - it's at the intersection. The private drive is very long though.

Yes, BG could have been parked on the private drive, but dunno about under the bridge part.

Occam's Razor says their killer likely parked at the back of the cemetery but anybody that knows the answer isn't talking. There is less chance of someone noticing him leaving the cemetery than him walking way out to the old CPS location after committing a double homicide of two young local girls!

Find the killer!!! BG is a cowardly killer of children.
View attachment 290437
Look how scary and creepy he is here
View attachment 290438
The more I look at that pic of him on the bridge, the more I am inclined to subscribe to the idea that he waited on the south side for them to pass him then he stepped on to the bridge, went a ways out then made a u-turn and headed back towards them. Otherwise, why is he not visible in the photo that the girls posted to Snap at 2:07pm? Is that the time it was taken or posted? Not sure as I do not use this app and never have but how is he not right behind them if he was already on the bridge approaching them? Such a tight timeline - there is no way he ran across that bridge!? Is there??
 
I believe the source was KG but I’m not sure which podcast.

Depending on the exact location of the discovery, theres an area where the road runs very close to the creek bank. Previously discussed, this is also around the same distance as LE’s statement “1/2 mile downstream from the bridge”, as opposed to immediately south of the cemetery. Possibly the reference to where the shoe was found is one and the same but all we can do is speculate as her interviews focus on recounting her emotional shock of the girls being found dead, rather than a precise location identification.

Red - my circle
Green - road ending as a private drive, Deer Creek nearby.
Blue - private property boundaries.

View attachment 290229
Source:
Beacon - Carroll County, IN - Map

The 1/2 mile distance was a sloppy inaccurate reference by law enforcement and never should have been used. It causes problems and needs to be set aside.

The shoe almost certainly was found alongside the creek, not on the private drive. Kelsi is not the greatest in terms of concise summaries that don't change. But in this instance she can't be expected to know exactly where the shoe was found, due to lack of line of sight and also the emotional shock as described in the quoted post. Kelsi said she was searching under the bridge. That means somewhere around here:

imgur.com

Shouting distance from that area to creekside is longer than generally recognized. Tree cover in that area below the bridge is not ideal to conceal bodies. Flooding tinned out the area in 2003. It is easy to see why Bridge Guy chose elsewhere. But in terms of yelling back and forth from creek level to gravel access road level it's going to be top of lungs. Many levels of thin trees will be in the way. Both parties would have been hearing but not seeing:

imgur.com

That view is the path toward the creek. I followed the trampled leaves. But if I had to estimate, I'd say the shoe was likely far end of picture as you reach the creek, then to the left maybe 20-30 yards. That would be more directly across from the bodies location. The path most taken exits upstream of the bodies location.
 
I think we all pretty much agree that the press conference was tightly scripted.

I don't agree with that at all. I believe it was scripted one way and then an emotional religious chief of law enforcement changed his mind at the last minute. He refused to fully commit to the younger sketch, then veered dramatically away in a wandering disjointed presentation. FBI and other higher ups must have been going absolutely nuts behind the scenes. But they have to bite their lip and try to maintain a straight face.

Tightly scripted press conferences don't require multiple points of clarification in subsequent days, both in person and in print. Heck, the points of clarification are every bit as numerous as the original points:

Delphi Homicide task force clarifies their reason for issuing a new sketch in murder case

It is hellish to dent an initial impression. That's what played in Delphi. Followers of this case along with media talking heads anticipated that presser for 4 days. Once it was so bizarre everyone assumed it must have been scripted that way. Media panel shows emphasized that angle. But those observers lacked the key variable, the accompanying press release that featured the intended centerpiece remarks, "We have a witness. You made mistakes."

Those panel shows needed someone like Alexis McAdams, who is the sharpest reporter ever to cover this case, IMO. She would have spotlighted that press release and focused attention to the severe variance from what Doug Carter said in relation to what he was supposed to say. And if it plays out that way, the entire impressions and memories of April 2019 appropriately shift.

I have never understood the theory that Delphi knows who it is, or that the killer was in that room. Those interpretations rely on stylistic approach of one guy...Doug Carter. Meanwhile imagine if Robert Ives had been chosen to lead that presser. He would have stuck to script. He would be matter of factly answering questions...no, we've never had a suspect who was more likely than not.

I realize Ives was gone at that point. Many will assert they didn't know who it was when Ives left, but figured it out during the shift to the new direction. That's a low percentage adjustment and rationalization. It would require Ives never being informed. Small town forces have low manpower and need all valued minds to contribute.
 
MOO stranger, even anyone driving down that private drive would likely be noticed. No one is supposed to access the bridge or trail from the south side it's private.

Even though this is just a reasoned guess, I agree.

I think he was on the north side of the bridge (or south side walking back north), when the girls went by, he knew that there was nobody on the south end of the bridge so he looked back to the north and saw nobody new entering the train, he knew the south end was all clear except for the girls, so he quickly walked aback across and forced the girls down the railroad gravel embankment to get out of sight.

Why they crossed the river makes no sense to me still. I suppose one of them running would make sense.
 
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