Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #98

[Joolz1975]

I agree! But just want to note that BP said she did not have any pockets that day. It really is a mystery how she hid it. And crossed a creek too!

My 13 year old shoves her phone down the back of her trousers usually if she has no pockets for her phone.

 

[MDATCA]

View attachment 182556

I'm sorry; I don't know how to carry a quote over from a previous thread. I just snipped and pasted the above.

It was me who wrote that LE said the re-enactments were not correct. That was back in Thread #87. Here was the post:

I have seen some of Gray's videos and have found them to be very helpful in visualizing the way the crime may have unfolded.

However, Indiana State Police Sgt. Jerry Holeman has made an interesting comment about the reenactment videos. I don't know if he is referring to the videos made by Gray or by Anthony Greeno or by someone else (or by all of them).

Here's what Sargent Holeman said: “The videos help us know that people don’t know the true details, because the facts haven’t been released,” Holeman says. “People watch the news and think they are picking up on things, but it’s false. Nothing out there is accurate, which only leads to more false tips.”

In addressing concerns that police have held back too many details on such a high-profile case, Holeman said that is standard protocol for ongoing investigations. He said, "We do that so when we get key evidence, only the killer or killers know the cause of death. We don’t release it to the media because then everyone and their brother would know, and it’s common to get false confessions from mentally disturbed people. So we’re trying to keep the details close to our vests.”

Why Police Have Not Released Details on the Murders of Libby German and Abby Williams from Delphi, Indiana

Choochoobella, Feb 20, 2019Report
#1153

It has always bothered me that there was no crime scene tape marking an area down the hill path.

I agree! But just want to note that BP said she did not have any pockets that day. It really is a mystery how she hid it. And crossed a creek too!

I wonder if she shoved it in her waistband or handed it off to abby

 

[neesaki]

Ives says he would rescind his resignation if enough evidence emerged to file charges in either case. Ohhhh!

I read somewhere he was to be sworn back in, now I can’t find anything. Did I just imagine that or was it just rumor?

 

[TTF14]

I read somewhere he was to be sworn back in, now I can’t find anything. Did I just imagine that or was it just rumor?

He was. I believe the only place to "see" this information is a court docket. It was posted at one point..... It was not in the news.

 

[weepingangel]

My 13 year old shoves her phone down the back of her trousers usually if she has no pockets for her phone.

Yep. Even wearing sweats or leggings. Don’t know how that works but it does

 

[Skully]

LE has never said where they found the phone. I will go out on a limb here and just say, it wasn't with them when he attacked them, or he would have found it on them. So Libby may have tossed it or dropped it or it fell out of her pocket...whatever when they ran. He didn't see it or couldn't find it. I may have been in water, we don't know. The only thing we know is that they got it, got a video off it and a voice recording. I am sure there is more, but it is of no use to us, or what they released was all they could release and it is enough for someone to ID BG.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Remember right after the press conference two weeks ago how excited we were? We all just knew something big was getting ready to happen. I know I did! They knew him! They had him! An arrest was coming! Now, two weeks later we’re discussing the nuances of the word “guys” and regional diversity of plural pronouns. It all blew over pretty quick didn’t it.
Here’s what, I think, is all there is to get from that press conference:

1) The guy in the sketch from July 2017 did not kill the girls. Why LE thought so for two years we don’t know.
2) The guy in the new sketch is the killer. The police had his sketch for two years and apparently dismissed it. Why? We don’t know.
3) The killer they are looking for now is younger. Why they think that, we don’t know.
4) About two extra seconds of video were released, appearing to confirm that BG is in fact a slightly slimmer younger guy. Why didn’t LE notice this sooner? Don’t know.
5) A couple seconds and one extra word more of audio were released, changing the feel of the clip and sounding convincingly more young. This is important for us to know now...but apparently was not two years ago.
6) The killer is from Delphi or the local area. I’m guessing this was part of the new information they just got that changed things. Otherwise, putting truck drivers on alert and putting billboards and posters up nationwide for two years makes no sense.
7) The driver of a vehicle parked near the trails the afternoon of the murders is of utmost importance. They talk as if there is no doubt this vehicle was there at that time. New info or old info? Don’t know but kinda thinking they knew this two years ago. Why it wasn’t important then is the question.

I’m glad LE changed the direction of the investigation. That took some courage. I still think all this new stuff has come from their realization recently that they dismissed some local guy early because of familiarity with him instead of investigating him. I only hope now, the opportunity has not been lost.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I believe it might be regional and perhaps generational. I was a young child - late teens in the 1970’s and 80’s. I grew up in the Deep South where we referred to everyone as “y’all”. I spent summers with relatives in Michigan who referred to a group of people (male and female) as “guys.” It was foreign to me because in the part of Louisiana where I grew up, no one referred to females as a guy.

Y'all, you all, or you guys? Dialect maps showcase America's many linguistic divides

 

[PaulaDC]

It has always bothered me that there was no crime scene tape marking an area down the hill path.

I wonder if she shoved it in her waistband or handed it off to abby

Bra.

 

[x_files]

This thread is moving so fast that every time I think I am caught up, there is a new page of postings.

ON another note, I showed my sons the pic of the unsub and they listened to the voice recordings. They both think he is in his early to mid 20s and they are in this age group as well. Thoughts?

ETA personally, I think he looks late 20s and his voice to me sounds older as well.

20's-30's age range.

 

[Skigh]

Remember right after the press conference two weeks ago how excited we were? We all just knew something big was getting ready to happen. I know I did! They knew him! They had him! An arrest was coming! Now, two weeks later we’re discussing the nuances of the word “guys” and

regional diversity of plural pronouns. It all blew over pretty quick didn’t it.
Here’s what, I think, is all there is to get from tha

press conference:

1) The guy in the sketch from July 2017 did not kill the girls. Why LE thought so for two years we don’t know.
2) The guy in the new sketch is the killer. The police had his sketch for two years and apparently dismissed it. Why? We don’t know.
3) The killer they are looking for now is younger. Why they think that, we don’t know.
4) About two extra seconds of video were released, appearing to confirm that BG is in fact a slightly slimmer younger guy. Why didn’t LE notice this sooner? Don’t know.
5) A couple seconds and one extra word more of audio were released, changing the feel of the clip and sounding convincingly more young. This is important for us to know now...but apparently was not two years ago.
6) The killer is from Delphi or the local area. I’m guessing this was part of the new information they just got that changed things. Otherwise, putting truck drivers on alert and putting billboards and posters up nationwide for two years makes no sense.
7) The driver of a vehicle parked near the trails the afternoon of the murders is of utmost importance. They talk as if there is no doubt this vehicle was there at that time. New info or old info? Don’t know but kinda thinking they knew this two years ago. Why it wasn’t important then is the question.

I’m glad LE changed the direction of the investigation. That took some courage. I still think all this new stuff has come from their realization recently that they dismissed some local guy early because of familiarity with him instead of investigating him. I only hope now, the opportunity has not been lost.

I personally do not think the information on the extra audio or video was for the public at large.
I think there was something that only someone very close to him could pick up on.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Come one dudes and dudettes, enough conversation of you guys posting three threads of the same conversation, ya'll know what I'm talking about?

Nah. Or do you say nope?

 

[JnRyan]

Remember right after the press conference two weeks ago how excited we were? We all just knew something big was getting ready to happen. I know I did! They knew him! They had him! An arrest was coming! Now, two weeks later we’re discussing the nuances of the word “guys” and regional diversity of plural pronouns. It all blew over pretty quick didn’t it.
Here’s what, I think, is all there is to get from that press conference:

1) The guy in the sketch from July 2017 did not kill the girls. Why LE thought so for two years we don’t know.
2) The guy in the new sketch is the killer. The police had his sketch for two years and apparently dismissed it. Why? We don’t know.
3) The killer they are looking for now is younger. Why they think that, we don’t know.
4) About two extra seconds of video were released, appearing to confirm that BG is in fact a slightly slimmer younger guy. Why didn’t LE notice this sooner? Don’t know.
5) A couple seconds and one extra word more of audio were released, changing the feel of the clip and sounding convincingly more young. This is important for us to know now...but apparently was not two years ago.
6) The killer is from Delphi or the local area. I’m guessing this was part of the new information they just got that changed things. Otherwise, putting truck drivers on alert and putting billboards and posters up nationwide for two years makes no sense.
7) The driver of a vehicle parked near the trails the afternoon of the murders is of utmost importance. They talk as if there is no doubt this vehicle was there at that time. New info or old info? Don’t know but kinda thinking they knew this two years ago. Why it wasn’t important then is the question.

I’m glad LE changed the direction of the investigation. That took some courage. I still think all this new stuff has come from their realization recently that they dismissed some local guy early because of familiarity with him instead of investigating him. I only hope now, the opportunity has not been lost.

This is about where my mind is sitting at this point. At the time I did question the change of sketches and THEN I found out it was drawn from witness statements less than a week after the murders. Now with no arrest, I have new unanswered questions.
I can't believe LE didn't think the killer was either a resident or a former resident or frequent visitor to the Delphi area, though. Many of us on here thought that same thing very early on. I believe Superintendent Carter stated that to add emphasis to the case and not that it was anything new to LE.
I do wonder now about the car parked in front of the abandoned building. Was it something LE was suspicious of all along and it was one of those bits of info LE keep to themselves? Or did it just recently take on more significance due to the new sketch?

 

[x_files]

This is probably a very, very stupid question, and one that may have been addressed previously, but how do LE know with certainty that BG is THE suspect? Is it because he was the only other person known to be on the bridge with them? Or are we to assume that there is more unreleased video footage of that specific individual on the phone (and potentially footage of that person actually committing the crime, as horrible a thought that is)?

Again, stupid question probably

Not a stupid question at all. I think the video and/or audio captured him grabbing one of them or commanding them to do something besides Down the Hill. So, it would be a really odd coincidence BG grabbed them, harrassed then left them and minutes later another stranger murders them. Unless he has an accomplice but he is still a suspect in this crime. The audio might have captured a struggle, an exchange of words and the actual kidnapping/murder. Sorry for being graphic.

 

[MistyWaters]

Why would he pull any videos because LE says that ALL reenactments are wrong?

They clearly said "all" and that that's how they know nothing ever leaked. All reenactments are just the person's opinion since there are almost no facts that have been released so far. Just because someone says it on youtube doesn't mean it's true. Youtube is no different than any other social media, and people make money off of their videos, so that's another reason why they keep posting videos about true crime that are just full of speculation trying to sell it as "the truth". And yes, there are videos that "reenact" the case with "actors".

The people who post videos about crime are just like people who post their opinions here, just because they put their face in front of a camera and voice their opinion that way doesn't make it more true. The only difference is, if you post here, you will not make money off of your posts.

You’re serious, YouTube re-enactments have been made using real people as actors? That’s horrible and no doubt why LE want the re-enactment practise to cease. I notice very few Abby and Libby videos, other than newscasts, remaining on YouTube aside from GH. And none using real actors leads me to think they’ve already been removed.

It’s a personal choice whether people read blogs, watch YouTube videos or click on any website to seek information about this case but consider that our awareness of it also all comes from a profit driven source - the media. Reporters are also paid to report on it, commentators paid to comment and so all aspects of information about news events is profit driven from the very onset.

ETA - If GH earns money from YouTube for the hours and hours of time it takes to create a YouTube video to help illustrate the physical aspects of the trail and bridge, I have no problem with that because it serves to educate us, which is a good thing imo

 

[x_files]

Re: serial killers who weren’t smart at all, but got away with their crimes for a long time - Gary Ridgeway comes to mind.

Of course, this was pre-DNA, and lack of regard for his victims was a key factor. But this guy was no genius, to put it mildly, and got away with dozens of crimes for years and years.

yep, blue collar, not attractive, nor charming nor high IQ kinda blended in as just another middle-aged loser. His looks weren't odd or strange enough to remember either.

 

[OldLadyBlues]

Ives says he would rescind his resignation if enough evidence emerged to file charges in either case. Ohhhh!

««chucklin»» Ain't it just amazin' what you find when ya read all the way through an article?? Ives PLAINLY wants to prosecute this case, WHICH is the reason he rescinded his "retirement". The way I see that is he thinks this investigation is (now) on track AND prosecutable. I think I'll trust his judgement.
MOO, MOO

 

[x_files]

For those of you who think this is his first murderS, honestly I am very surprised by how many have said this and I’m wondering what leads you to that opinion. I was also wondering for reference if anyone can name a child killer who’s first kill was a dual homicide? Tia. This must surely exist as we see mass shootings for example which are a “first kill”, but specifically for discussion purposes as related to child killers and likely pedophiles I do wonder about a dual homicide as a first crime. Anything is possible but imo I would lean towards this not being his first murder.

Also, how you feel about his victim count, etc could also depend upon how old you think the suspect is. If he is closer to 20, well then chances are likely his body count is less than if he is 40. Big difference between 20 and 40 imo as far as how this all goes down.

I think he is younger, so could be the first kill, however, he may have committed other sexual assaults. Molested small children/infants and was never caught. Tortured animals and parents hide it from the community. But he had to have friends, someone must know he is off and acts strange. Did strange things or talked about strange fantasies. I am sure there's local gossip.
Maybe he hid his fantasies really well but someone out there must have a suspicion about the BG.

 

[Wells]

Here is something that is bothering me. I have been focusing on this guy's alibi because I believe it's of the utmost importance. They had a sketch of the real BG two years ago. It's my opinion that someone gave him an alibi then... even though they strongly suspected he was involved (hence LE going with the sketch they released in 2017). If the alibi has been lying all this time, what gives him or her any motivation to come forward now? Its early. I'm only on my second cup of coffee. Not sure if this makes sense.

 

[enelram]

I think he is younger, so could be the first kill, however, he may have committed other sexual assaults. Molested small children/infants and was never caught. Tortured animals and parents hide it from the community. But he had to have friends, someone must know he is off and acts strange. Did strange things or talked about strange fantasies. I am sure there's local gossip.
Maybe he hid his fantasies really well but someone out there must have a suspicion about the BG.

I wonder if because of his possible lack of empathy and shades
of being a psychopath, he may not have 'close or intimate' friends
as more normal people do.
Sometimes these types engage in social activities but aren't truly
social or don't reveal much personally about themselves.

We know by his act here he's really warped. Only LE can guess
how warped. I still wonder if this was a 'lust killing' acting out
his fantasies or a full on sexual killing where he committed
acts on his victims for his own sexual satisfaction.
His own family may not know how warped he really is if he's
living a double life like BTK Dennis Rader who was able to hide
things from his wife and children.