IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #14

[skibaboo]

I am not getting where this guy came from...it's like he appeared out of thin air or something. You can't see him in the snapchat pic, but then all of a sudden the girls progressed 500 feet and he is now all of a sudden there?

He had to have walked them down the road, told them to go down the hill after they crossed creek, yes?

[video=youtube;oJ1XaHIFwRs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ1XaHIFwRs[/video]

IMHO He didn't appear on the bridge until approx 23 minutes after the snapchat photo.

SC photo - 2:07pm
FBI poster, suspect last seen in area - 2:30pm

I think that is the time on the video shot we see of him on the bridge, ascertained from data on LG's phone. Again, MOO

 

[812Hoosier]

i come from the county in southern indiana where katie collman was killed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/10/us/too-late-for-katie-town-tackles-a-drugs-scourge.html

i have been reading about lyric and elizabeth's case also and there is one common denominator that is apparent in these cases.

 

[rpgman]

i come from the county in southern indiana where katie collman was killed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/10/us/too-late-for-katie-town-tackles-a-drugs-scourge.html

i have been reading about lyric and elizabeth's case also and there is one common denominator that is apparent in these cases.

and what would that be?

 

[xwoodbine]

This is what I believe too...He feels so proud of himself. It has crossed my mind more than a few times that he could be reading this forum because in his mind our intense interest in finding him is stroking his sick and depraved ego.

I just don't have the feeling that he is sitting holed up, panicking and freaking out over what LE has/doesn't have on him. I do have a feeling he is holed up, going out disguised under the cover of darkness, but otherwise gleefully devouring news stories and quite possibly this forum.

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I think the POI had done this before. He could be a loner/outcast and did this to finally like 'somebody', to feel important and for attention.

Because as we're thinking the murders happened during daylight, that in its own right is risky.

I'm wondering if the POI may be known to the girls somehow. Maybe he knew that the schools were having the day off as a 'snow day'. He could even be a teacher and had heard the girls mentioning in class about going for a walk there on the 'snow day'.

You can tell he is familiar with the area though.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

I agree.

IMHO He didn't appear on the bridge until approx 23 minutes after the snapchat photo.

SC photo - 2:07pm
FBI poster, suspect last seen in area - 2:30pm

I think that is the time on the video shot we see of him on the bridge, ascertained from data on LG's phone. Again, MOO

 

[heidi76]

i come from the county in southern indiana where katie collman was killed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/10/us/too-late-for-katie-town-tackles-a-drugs-scourge.html

i have been reading about lyric and elizabeth's case also and there is one common denominator that is apparent in these cases.

What denominator?

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[ab01]

Just something to keep in mind.

The outdoor ambient temperature on 2/13/17 was around 40* but also says mostly sunny. Water tempratures in indiana for streams that day were btwn 40-49* according to USGS. In my opinion im not sure BG would have wanted anything to do with being in that water unless he absolutly had to. (victums started running etc) Uless you have waterproof boots/waiters on it would be extremely cold even in a few feet of water

 

[heidi76]

As far as making phone calls on my iPhone, I absolutely hate it. It's so much easier for me to access apps and post updates that way. You can make a phone call much easier on a flip phone. Maybe that's why Nokia (I think it's them) is coming out with a new phone that is basically....wait for it.....just a phone.

I had to giggle.

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[Gunther Toody]

If I recall from the excellent videos a poster made...it has been determined that the man was photographed at the far southern end of the bridge with the girls either at the bridge end or off the bridge completely. It makes no sense that he would have forced the girls to walk through water just to get back to the other side. Yet, we know they were found on the North side of the area.

So, it is very likely that the man using a "con" (which is the most used ruse when abducting children) walked on the bridge back to the northern side with the girls. I can't imagine that he forced them on this walk being openly exposed as they were so it must have been a friendly walk so to speak...maybe discussing the geocache as someone suggested.

From the study I posted earlier...

Commonly, the killers are at the initial victim-killer contact site for a
legitimate reason (66%). They either lived in the area (29%) or were engaging in
some normal activity. -

Most of the victims of child abduction murder are victims of opportunity
(57%). Only in 14 percent of cases did the killer choose his victim because of
some physical characteristic of the victim.

and this...

Similarly, knowledge of the location of the murder is important to the
investigation. The murder site is second only to the body of the victim as a source
of physical evidence that can be connected with the killer Its close proximity to
the body recovery site suggests that a thorough search be conducted to locate it

It was discovered that once the murder investigation has begun, the name of
the killer is known to the police within the first week in 74% of cases This
provides an opportunity for investigators who are stalled regroup after a week or
two, and evaluate everyone connected with the investigation.

So it becomes imperative to learn exactly where the murder took place.

The study also indicates that body disposal is generally located within 200 feet of the murder scene.

 

[apples12]

No you cannot see the creek from the back of the cemetery. I believe it goes down a hill or embankment. I'm trying to find my picture.......

During one of the TV interviews with the land owner, they walked to the spot where girls were found, and they remarked that you can spot the bridge from there, although not easily.

 

[skibaboo]

The bodies were found on the North side of the creek, approx 1/5th of a mile East of the bridge, approx 50 feet from the creek- Fact

They were taken 'Down the hill' from the North or South side of the bridge? - We do not know

Did they cross the creek - We do not know

Does that help? lol

 

[jbeth]

They were reported missing just around nightfall, IIRC. By the time drones or copters were mobilized, it would have been too dark. There were only minutes, literally, before darkness.

This is interesting to me because our area has had an explosion of car break ins at night. We've noticed helicopters and our neighborhood watch has reported they were using heat detection/night vision of some sorts.

When the girls were first reported missing, I wonder if LE had access to the likes of something similar. If the intial assumption was that they were possibly lost/lingering, this might have helped. Now if they were already deceased, this may not have helped or picked them up.

 

[#1nana]

yes at the back of the cemetery

 

[Hatfield]

Is there an area near where the bodies were found a car could be parked?

The cemetary is not too far based on a news article I saw.

 

[WebSight]

Ups, forgot to respond to your question in my last post.

IMO the POI was captured by Libby by accident. He is heavily zoomed in based on the grainy quality of the image. There are most likely other folks in front and possibly to the right of him (towards the East). The picture was edited IMO to just show the POI. Nothing else is happening, Libby is filming, the audio (Down the hill) was not taken here or immediately hereafter IMO.

-Nin

When we were all discussing the possibility of Abby or others being blurred out in the video stills, it occured to me later that possibly

1) LE would then have others' pictures and could post them to ask anyone in the photo to come forward to give any info. about whether they knew the guy, interacted with him, his movements, etc.

2) If they were children but local, police wouldn't have to post the pictures but it would be easy to locate others through schools, neighbors, etc, in the photo and interview them for description or events.

3) If LE were able to interview anyone that is standing in the clip but blotted out to isolate BG then we would most likely have an exact description of him.

EDITED FOR CLARIFICATION: So, while I still believe someone is being cropped out, I think it is Abby. I did see in those enhanced photos what looked like a blurring and smudging when others brought it up and was willing to entertain the possibility that it was done to isolate. JMthoughts

 

[BFan60]

All of this is speculation. The only people who have any evidence with which to come up with a workable theory is LE. We don't have an "Agreed Set of Facts". LE has not released ANY. We don't even know which end of the bridge they exited, or who exited at what time relative to everyone else. The only rumor I have is one sent to me by someone who talked with someone who talked with a search party member (LOL)... and that was that they went down the north end of the bridge and were dragged up the north side of the creek. Is that true? Who knows except LE.

We don't even know to what degree LE knows or thinks BG was involved. How long until BG's stills were taken to TOD. <modsnip>

The only thing we know is that LE THINKS BG participated, and that LE does NOT know who the guy is or where. So the only thing USEFUL we can do is try to find him so LE can get back on the horse with some sort of lead. Tall order, to be sure.

 

[michiganmod]

I know the time listed for the photo of Abby on the bridge was 2:07pm. Now I'm seeing that the billboards are saying he was last seen at 2:30pm. That's a 23 minute difference. I feel like that means they have alot more media they aren't sharing. It takes about 15-20 minutes to go down the hill and to the "found location". MOO
My wish is that the LE would give us more information so WSers could focus more on locating this person then reconstructing the things already known by LE.

Originally Posted by liltexans A few threads ago, someone posted a photo of one of the electronic billboards that said the perp was last seen around 2:30 pm. We speculated that that might have been the time stamp on the photos, but we don't know because LE hasn't actually told us. The time was apparently put on at least some of the billboards, though.

 

[#1nana]

I could see it from the entrance back to the bridge. Very close.

 

[Eileen730]

The cemetary is not too far based on a news article I saw.

Ok thanks but is t there a fence. So ppl can't get down to the creek ?

 

[Coldpizza]

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