IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #17

[jjhoward33]

Imo the problem I have with this senerio is he then would have had to park his car where it would have been seen by others. Also I have a problem with him going back into the park where someone would see him and possibly describe him.

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IIRC, early on a witness reported seeing a red car with paper plates parked in the parking lot. Does anyone recall if this was ever ruled out? I am assuming it was but don't remember for sure.

Off to search for the link. Just thought someone may have it handy

(This sticks out in my mind because for the first two days I thought they meant paper plates. Like Chinet plates and I was so confused (blonde moment).


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[Rpenrod]

I keep seeing references to rail.

FYI. A few days afterwards, (iirc it was two days after murders) there was a media or LE notice that there was a train that was shut down, in the city of Delphi and blocking traffic, for about 30 minutes. I have tried since to find that link but I cannot. I had thought that it was a public safety announcement site or ??? but cannot for the life of me find it again after an hour of searching. Perhaps someone else can if interested. It happened about 7 or 7:30 in the am... two days after iirc.

IMO They also spent a lot of time searching the storage unit down 300N just about a mile from bridge. This is where the train may stop presumably. It's connected to the tracks.

 

[kirkassoc]

http://hs.delphi.k12.in.us/UserFile...le/2016 - 2017 School Calendar 07_11_2016.pdf

ETA: Both girls (according to their school calendar) had Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday off from school--not only Monday 2/13 but Friday 2/10, also.

Hope LE reached out to public to see who may have been near the bridge on Friday, 2/10. It's possible BG may have been scoping then and didn't have an opportunity, etc. JMO

 

[JJ007]

Another good link for all rails. It even has headings for stuff I wouldn't consider. Pretty good resource IMO: http://www.acwr.com/economic-development/rail-maps

 

[heaterann]

Now if we do have an SK and he is using the rails, then the list of missing people that was just posted awhile back and the railroad maps should either be able to help us rule this as a possibility or help us to just move on from this idea. I don't care if I'm right I just want to find the answer

 

[JJ007]

Im quoting myself because i was looking at this map. do any locals know approximately how many homes are located around deer creek? i also found saw where there was a abandoned house that was going to be tore down now i cant find the link. moo

I also saw a link for an REO property on same road. Just google foreclosure on 300N, I think # was 5422 W 300 N

 

[#1nana]

Thank you and since you have been there can you help me with a few questions.

1. how close to the cemetery were they found? Is it possible that the perp coming from the creek side didnt even know it was there or because of the time of year would he have seen it? Perhaps leading to what others have said about him using it as his escape route?

2. where there active train tracks by the area where the girls were dropped off? it looks like there is an active train that runs close to this area, IMO I really think this is a strong possibility this is how this guy gets around.

3. how far from the area they were found is there houses, people, roads... was it secluded or just steps away from other people?

I don't know for sure exactly where their bodies were however I spoke with one of the searchers that day and he did confirm their bodies were found on the North east side of the bridge about 50 yards from the water). From the amount of searchers gathered in the woods behind the cemetery, the spotlight, and a map someone else posted, IMO it was almost directly behind the cemetery. I don't think he could have seen the cemetery from the water. It's a very hilly area and he would have been looking uphill so I don't imagine he could have randomly seen it. With that said since its winter, there is no foliage and/or brush so the area is kind of open.

There is a train track on the other side of the US aggregates place

I've attached a picture of the path to the bridge, you can see a house right at the end of the trail. By the cemetery there's another house only its further away. I hope this helps.

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[latisha.darnell]

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[Yellow Rose]

Regarding the lady who said she was on bridge @ 3pm and saw a couple and a man (hope I got that right), was there ever a description given by her?


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If there was I'm certain LE are keeping it under their belt.

 

[Rpenrod]

Now if we do have an SK and he is using the rails, then the list of missing people that was just posted awhile back and the railroad maps should either be able to help us rule this as a possibility or help us to just move on from this idea. I don't care if I'm right I just want to find the answer

I started to do a map but don't have very much time. I know Trenton OH, Kokomo IN and Delphi IN all are part of a nolfolk southern route and the dates missing for the girls would lineup. About a month ago for Ohio and the 2nd week of February for the 2 Indiana cases. Perhaps he camps out in between and whatnot. IMO

 

[Imvp2]

IMO You guys are on to it I believe. NS railroads go through both Trenton Ohio and Delphi Indiana. I believe this is a major clue and it should be investigated.

What bothers me about the Norvell girl, she left without her phone? Or any personal belongings? Just speaking for my daughters, they don't go anywhere without their phones. Big red flag for me.

 

[azshadowwalker]

Replying to the posted MSM piece in this post http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13191793 from the previous thread.

Authorities are arresting witnesses and others they question if there are outstanding warrants or other crimes come to light during questioning. Based upon stuff I have read in other WS threads, many people operate under the misconception that this doesn't happen; cops overlook other crimes in order to get information about a murder. I mean, you only have to watch The First 48 to know that this isn't the case, but here we have LE telling us point blank.

This concerns me. If the crime or warrant is for something violent, I understand, but this sounds like a blanket statement. I can see it discouraging tips from locals who worry about being arrested for something else if they come forward.

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[heaterann]

I don't know for sure exactly where their bodies were however I spoke with one of the searchers that day and he did confirm their bodies were found on the North east side of the bridge about 50 yards from the water). From the amount of searchers gathered in the woods behind the cemetery, the spotlight, and a map someone else posted, IMO it was almost directly behind the cemetery. I don't think he could have seen the cemetery from the water. It's a very hilly area and he would have been looking uphill so I don't imagine he could have randomly seen it. With that said since its winter, there is no foliage and/or brush so the area is kind of open.

There is a train track on the other side of the US aggregates place

I've attached a picture of the path to the bridge, you can see a house right at the end of the trail. By the cemetery there's another house only its further away. I hope this helps.

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That totally answered all my questions I am very grateful you were able to go to the site and can answer these questions, it very much helps. From what you saw can you please give us your opinion of the events?

 

[Suglo]

True
And her name has been published!

I wonder if the man and couple she saw heard or saw anything themselves and if LE has found them and questioned them also. She made it sound like they were already there when she arrived.

 

[Perceptionist5591]

You have really not missed anything. Things seem to have slowed down as far as new info, and there has been some rehasing of old news. Some discussion about possible footwear, rumors, wanting more LE updates. That's the most condensed version. Hope it helps.

Yes very much so. Thank you

 

[Perceptionist5591]

PLEASE HEAR ME OUT and don't discard this as a possibility, also read the whole post before jumping to conclusions! This is Websleuths after all and I just want justice for Abby and Libby... more than anything.

I don't think that it's just a mere coincidence that their bodies were found on this person's property and he wasn't home the day they went missing (I am not saying he is the suspect but perhaps a relative of his). I'm happy for all the billboards in all 46 states and all but BG is definitely from the area. He was comfortable enough to kill 2 girls in broad daylight because he knew it was desolate, no one would hear/see anything, he also took them to another area (he knows this place very well). Since property owner wasn't home, maybe a cousin or friend went to 'house sit' or feed his pets, etc and decided to take a hike and saw the girls. He left them on that property and walked up to the home, showered, cleaned himself, changed (since no one was home, no one saw him cleaning himself or anything suspicious) and then he left. In the interview given by this man he is also wearing a camo hat (relevant to those who think BG is wearing a hat), a blue jacket, 'dad' jeans, so this just tells that he associates with people that dress similarly. Again, I AM NOT SAYING that this man has anything to do with it, but perhaps a relative, friend, cousin... etc. He is very old too and sometimes old people forget or aren't mindful of small details so maybe he hasn't been able to help with any information but I am sure something weird is going on here. My gut instinct just tells me so. Most of the time people expand too far or think too hard and the answer was right under their noses the whole time. Maybe the answer is just right in front of us, maybe this is why the suspect hasn't been caught yet because the search is so broad. I believe he is hiding in plain view; no one has noticed or would think that he would do that. Or he's a loner and not a lot of people know him.

AAAAMMMMMMEEEEENNNNN! I concur

 

[pepelepolecat]

Quote Originally Posted by maryann290 View Post
PLEASE HEAR ME OUT and don't discard this as a possibility, also read the whole post before jumping to conclusions! This is Websleuths after all and I just want justice for Abby and Libby... more than anything.

I don't think that it's just a mere coincidence that their bodies were found on this person's property and he wasn't home the day they went missing (I am not saying he is the suspect but perhaps a relative of his). I'm happy for all the billboards in all 46 states and all but BG is definitely from the area. He was comfortable enough to kill 2 girls in broad daylight because he knew it was desolate, no one would hear/see anything, he also took them to another area (he knows this place very well). Since property owner wasn't home, maybe a cousin or friend went to 'house sit' or feed his pets, etc and decided to take a hike and saw the girls. He left them on that property and walked up to the home, showered, cleaned himself, changed (since no one was home, no one saw him cleaning himself or anything suspicious) and then he left. In the interview given by this man he is also wearing a camo hat (relevant to those who think BG is wearing a hat), a blue jacket, 'dad' jeans, so this just tells that he associates with people that dress similarly. Again, I AM NOT SAYING that this man has anything to do with it, but perhaps a relative, friend, cousin... etc. He is very old too and sometimes old people forget or aren't mindful of small details so maybe he hasn't been able to help with any information but I am sure something weird is going on here. My gut instinct just tells me so. Most of the time people expand too far or think too hard and the answer was right under their noses the whole time. Maybe the answer is just right in front of us, maybe this is why the suspect hasn't been caught yet because the search is so broad. I believe he is hiding in plain view; no one has noticed or would think that he would do that. Or he's a loner and not a lot of people know him.

bbm --

Most people stop dressing like their friends by the time they graduate high school. I certainly would not expect adults to dress alike unless they worked at a job that required uniforms. That said, the clothes BG is wearing look pretty standard for Midwestern guy-wear, especially for cool weather months. I'd expect to see that outfit on a third of the men I see from November through February or March.

Second, yes, he's an older man, but he's not so old that I'd expect him to have forgotten that he had someone housesitting or petsitting for him. That's not a small detail but a huge one, and someone has pretty advanced dementia when they're forgetting a detail that big, especially when a horrific murder has occurred on their property.

This property owner seems traumatized to me. I see nothing weird about his behavior at all.

 

[luckyme]

Do u guys remember the railroad killer? He was executed in Texas in 2006. I used to trip out about him because my parents lived right on a railroad track in Florida and i used to go and stay for the summer. They were hunting him. Every night that i heard a train i used to panic. Come to find out he did ride the rails to florida and committed a murder not far from my mothers house. scary. So we do know savory people do ride rails! moo

 

[Mercedes]

In my opinion, the property owner is just heartbroken that this happened on his land or at all. Old is relative and while he may be elderly, he is not old. He was well spoken, looked kind, and had fond memories of his children playing in his woods. That is now ruined for him.

 

[mazblondie]

Is the cemetery near the scene still in use? Does anyone local know?

In use as in are there still active burials/additional unfilled plots?

Could it be the perp was at the graveyard visiting a relative/friend and saw the girls and acted?

MOO