IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #22

[EmmaRose]

So she crossed the bridge after 3:49PM. Sundown must be around 6PM? It would be closer to 5PM when she returned to her car? She did this by herself without any concern for the bridge condition?
Do people go there to cross the bridge, turn around and cross it again?

If Libby and Abigail arrived at 1PM and 1h7m later they had still not crossed the bridge, that suggests that crossing the bridge takes them from 1:20 to 2:07 to partially cross the bridge ... 47-53 minutes and they're not yet across once.

Let's assume a minimum of one hour each way on the bridge plus 15 minutes each way to the pick up spot. They were very tight on time. Why didn't someone who was at the park at 3:49, and who crossed the bridge one way at 5:05 not see the suspect either behind or in front of her?

I think we can assume that the suspect did not cross the bridge at dusk or in the dark, but he would have been with the girls, or walking to his vehicle, by 5 in order to have the light.

I wonder, if the 3:49 time is, in fact, correct, could this woman have heard the girl's relative calling for Abby and Libby??

 

[Spellbound]

new article: http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...se-dont-spread-rumors-in-delphi-investigation

Police in Delphi have a message about the investigation into the murders of two girls: Stop spreading rumors.

The most recent rumor spreading on social media suggests that a serial killer murdered the girls.
Indiana State Police Sergeant John Perrine said there is no evidence to suggest that there is any truth to that rumor.

"The facts will come out. Those facts will come from us, and they’ll come from reliable news sources,” said Sgt. Perrine.

 

[deugirtni]

I wouldn't call it a park. It's not heavily populated.

Just an aside and OT, but I find it difficult to imagine that a dangerous, defunct contraption such as that bridge would be allowed to exist in Canada. Maybe I am naive, I don't know? Is it on public land? Either way, I am really surprised that the government didn't bring it to safety standard compliance, if for no other reason than to protect themselves from expensive liability in the event of an accident, or if it is privately owned, the owner wasn't forced by government to bring it into compliance, or take it down. If it is an interesting historical site that is wanted to be kept by the community, then why not pay for it to be repaired and beefed up while still adhering to its old world charm (as much as possible while still allowing the public to be safe while using it)? Even if none of that happened, why would there not at least be huge signs stating 'use at your own risk', etc? Totally confused.

 

[deugirtni]

Thanks for the links - I will peruse them!

I bolded portions of your post that makes my point exactly regarding TOD for both girls. I think it is much more important to distinguish between legal TOD and a choice regarding an obituary. I am sure that distinction is very important to the police, why shouldn't it be to us?

Thanks for responding!

It *would* absolutely be important to 'us', if police *had* stated a time/date of death for each of the girls, and the dates/times were significantly different from one another, but they did not. The only reason this has even come into question and conversation is because of the differing obits, which are *not* legal documents, and are written in fact by the families themselves. Each of them separately.

 

[deugirtni]

new article: http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...se-dont-spread-rumors-in-delphi-investigation

Police in Delphi have a message about the investigation into the murders of two girls: Stop spreading rumors.

The most recent rumor spreading on social media suggests that a serial killer murdered the girls.
Indiana State Police Sergeant John Perrine said there is no evidence to suggest that there is any truth to that rumor.

"The facts will come out. Those facts will come from us, and they’ll come from reliable news sources,” said Sgt. Perrine.

I noticed yesterday the change in the names of police who are being quoted in MSM. Is this significant? Doesn't it seem odd that suddenly the officers we have been hearing from to date are silent, and other(s) are now being quoted? Wonder if it is because the original ones, who were in the forefront of the investigation as it evolved, are 'busy'...... (okay, so I am hoping they are tied up in questioning some perp, for hours on end).

 

[WebSight]

It *would* absolutely be important to 'us', if police *had* stated a time/date of death for each of the girls, and the dates/times were significantly different from one another, but they did not. The only reason this has even come into question and conversation is because of the differing obits, which are *not* legal documents, and are written in fact by the families themselves. Each of them separately.

I understand completely why you and others think it only came into question because of the differing obituaries. But I have wondered this from day one, not based on that issue at all. I just used that conversation as a catalyst to bring forward my inquiry.

It is something that I think would be very interesting to know - either the days are the same or they are not. I would like to know the facts, if we are allowed by LE to know them, rather than the speculation.

Speculating/theorizing on facts are an important component of this website. We are often reminded to base our theories on the facts as we know them.

I think this is one fact that could be pertinent. Think how many questions that fact would answer and how many others it would raise, it would be a very important component indeed. IMO of course.

 

[Elley Mae]

I know a person that was killed in iraq in a humvee with two other soldiers IED Two of their DC have the 5th and the third has the 6th. Witnesses to.the attack said they know the third was dead but could not retrieve him until the 6th.
That was the date he was confirmed deceased. It still haunts his father.to think he was alive but couldn't be rescued.

I have wondered if the parents wanted the 14th as the date being it was Valentines day as she was their sweet heart. It would be hard to have/ celebrate it in the future even if it was listed as the 13th so why not just say the 14th. Idk jmo some folks have their reasons but it is odd to me as well.

I understand completely why you and others think it only came into question because of the differing obituaries, but you cannot speak for my reasons for questioning it. I have wondered this from day one, not based on that issue. I just used that conversation as a catalyst to bring forward my inquiry.

It is something that I think would be very interesting to know - either the days are the same or they are not. I would like to know the facts, if we are allowed by LE to know them rather than the speculation.

I thought speculating/theorizing on facts were important component of this website. Aren't we always being reminded to base our theories on the facts as we know them?

This is one fact that I think would be interesting to know. Think how many questions that fact would answer and how many others it would raise, it would be a very important component indeed. IMO of course.

 

[Phelps848]

I noticed yesterday the change in the names of police who are being quoted in MSM. Is this significant? Doesn't it seem odd that suddenly the officers we have been hearing from to date are silent, and other(s) are now being quoted? Wonder if it is because the original ones, who were in the forefront of the investigation as it evolved, are 'busy'...... (okay, so I am hoping they are tied up in questioning some perp, for hours on end).

I believe they have a timeline on the switch in officers. I just assumed one of them had something planned before all of this happened.


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[WebSight]

I know a person that was killed in iraq in a humvee with two other soldiers IED Two of their DC have the 5th and the third has the 6th. Witnesses to.the attack said they know the third was dead but could not retrieve him until the 6th.
That was the date he was confirmed deceased. It still haunts his father.to think he was alive but couldn't be rescued.

I have wondered if the parents wanted the 14th as the date being it was Valentines day as she was their sweet heart. It would be hard to have/ celebrate it in the future even if it was listed as the 13th so why not just say the 14th. Idk jmo some folks have their reasons but it is odd to me as well.

Thanks for your response Elley Mae but now I am a bit embarrassed as you quoted my pre-edit post. I posted it rather hastily and after publishing it felt it was rather snarky :notgood:

I have since edited it so that all the snark is removed. Sigh...

 

[GGE]

The obit would come from the death certificate. You cannot that up, however you can say anything at funeral.

Wrong. The obit comes from family. The write whatever they want and the newspaper publishes it, except in cases where the family opts to let the funeral home write a generic one, in which case the funeral home just uses whatever is on the death certificate.

I always have written my family member's obituaries myself, because I prefer to include more personal information than what a stranger would know to include.

 

[GGE]

Me neither. This nonsense was being posted on twitter.


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good grief. it's almost like some people care less about finding the guy who did this and more about people saying "wow, great sleuthing, amazing, nobody else has seen that before, you're so smart and we're all so dumb, here have some ego-boost".

I can't imagine being so sure that I had something real and credible that LE hasn't discovered yet, and then deciding "so I"ll just plaster it all over twitter so that whoever's vehicles they are will know they're busted and start coming up with lies now" rather than "I better send this on to LE and let them do their job".


100% ego.

That is really just a disgusting character trait. JMO and SMH.

 

[Scarlett12]

I am curious as to what the WS community hears in the recording ( GO DOWN the HILL, DOWN THE HILL, Etc.., ) and their location. Also what , if any accent you hear.?

I think such a huge disparity is occurring because of the fact we all are from all over ( which is pretty cool) . I'm wondering if this is a regional thing.



I'll start: I'm from small town Indiana, now in Indianapolis. I've lived in Chicago , Denver, and SoCal.

I hear GO DOWN THE HILL in a normal Indiana voice.. the accent I hear a million times a day.


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[GGE]

What we have wondered all along...putting those pictures like that, you could be looking at sisters or twins...

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...s/news-story/e15e255be4b0a8a15d67b507851807e3



This is an Australian paper..so is it a breakdown/mishmash of all other stuff reported and duplicated? This looks an awful lot like work a WS'r posted the other night...I'm sorry it was 2-3 threads back and I'm not going to look for the link..

That australian "paper" always "happens to have" quotes that are extremely close to being plagiarisations of htings that are posted here, ad generally they're the most INCORRECT and/or UPSETTING speculations possible, just like how they've been trying for weeks now to get everyone to call this "Snapchat Murders" when NOBODY here (except one person I can think of) ever thought that was what this was all about as far as I know. They get information wrong all the time, use unclear wording in what I can only assume is a blatant attempt at getting clicks from people searching google for information, and allude to things that have already been debunked by LE... and a lot of people out there who do'tn follow this case as carefully as ew do here are just eating this junk up.

It shouldn't even be linkable here IMO, it's that bad. JMO. I don't believe a thing I see there, and won't give them a single click. They will get no ad revenue from me. I've always suspected it's run by someone who posts here, actually, and is probably not even a real news source in any form but online (I doubt it's a published paper there)... JMO and I could be wrong, but they really burn me up with their bad reporting.

ETA - oh, well the fact that it's a FAKE NEWS WEBSITE, not real news, explains everything - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News.com.au

 

[GGE]

Their obits are public

Yeah but they didn't ask "how do you know what is in their obituary" they asked "how do you know their DATES OF DEATH".

 

[GGE]

If anything, there would be a stronger argument for the two best friends to have wanted to pass on the same day.

SBM - ..... actually, I have no words.

 

[SheRuns]

it?

Were they partially across the bridge on the return trip when they encountered him and began retreating on the bridge?

This is a scenario I have considered for a while. IMO they likely could have been heading back and saw BG coming, felt uneasy, and began retreating to the closest end.



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[GGE]

I just read this in my newsfeed...apologies if old information

Talking about linking the girls murder with the other 2 girls murdered in nearby town...

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...s/news-story/e15e255be4b0a8a15d67b507851807e3

ok it's time for mods and admins to do something about this site. From wikipedia:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News.com.au

News.com.au is a fake Australian news and entertainment website owned by News Corp Australia. It specialises in human interest stories as well as reproducing content from Buzzfeed and Reddit, spelling and grammatical errors, publishing fake news, promoting social division and pushing political agendas.[1]

 

[GGE]

There are several errors in this article.

because it's not a real news website. here's a handy list of fake news websites and of satire news websites that people might want to bookmark so they can check before sharing things here from now on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fake_news_websites

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_satirical_news_websites

 

[cindersoot]

I have wondered why the girls didn't call 911?

 

[deugirtni]

I wonder, if the 3:49 time is, in fact, correct, could this woman have heard the girl's relative calling for Abby and Libby??

Speaking of times....

-Abby's photo snapped by Liberty's phone at 2:07pm

-presumed time of video showing suspect according to police billboards: 2:30pm

-time it takes to walk .8 of a mile (the distance from where they were last seen to where their bodies were found... I am 'assuming' that where they were 'last seen' was on the bridge, since their is photographic evidence of that): 19 minutes (according to this website by entering .8 of a mile with 0 incline and decline considerations)
https://www.walkingenglishman.com/walktime.aspx

-that takes the time from recording the perp to walking to the place of their deaths, to 2:50pm (but that is not accounting for the time it took for the perp to get closer to the girls (the video seems to have been taken from far away; and not accounting for the reportedly rough terrain of the particular area according to the property owner where the bodies were found, so perhaps add another few minutes for these things? That would take it to near 3pm)

-reportedly around 3pm a visitor to the bridge saw a couple and a lone male, but did not see the girls. (Is there verification of this?)

That timeline is pretty tight.. but yet nothing was even heard, let alone seen? BG is leading the girls to their murder location, they are murdered, presumably one at a time, but yet nothing is heard, even though we know, apparently, that there were at least 4 people around.. the woman, the couple, and man that the woman saw on the bridge. No screaming?? Wouldn't sound carry fairly well, considering the creek is there and it is fairly open?