IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #24

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herway said:
13 year old girls would have been shocked to see, what I think you are suggesting they saw. They would have been shocked and probably frozen in place if that had happened. I believe Abby and Libby were sweet young girls and had no experience with things of sexual nature. I know for myself, when I was a girl of 13 years old, how I would have reacted.

I disagree that the photo has been touched up to make it PG. I think BG was fully covered (including his privates), and was intent on accosting the girls and getting them into the woods under cover, so he could carry out his deeds undetected. I do not think his intent was to expose himself on the bridge, his intention was to kill them.

Of course this is all, MMO.
Click to expand...

I've been reading along on this case from the start but this is my first post about this case.

Just thought I would add my own personal experience around this because I think it shows that people can have very different reactions to seeing something like what is being suggested here.

When I was 14 I was walking my dog alone in the evening and was on my way home when I heard a whistle and looked to where the sound was coming from and a few metres away there was a man standing with his pants down holding himself there. I was shocked and worried and my first reaction was to pull out my phone (this was year 2001 so no camera phones) and call my mum to come outside as I was only a few houses away from my house. He got spooked when I pulled my phone out and ran off down the street.

A few months later I was walking home from the train station with a friend and again we heard someone call out to us and looked over and it was the same guy, pants down again touching himself. I felt nervous again but my friend (same age) burst out laughing and thought it was absolutely hilarious.

If the girls had seen BG doing something inappropriate they also may have filmed him maybe not to laugh at it but because it made them nervous and maybe were planning on reporting it or telling someone? I know I called the police both times it happened (although they seemed to think it was pretty funny as well and didn't take it too seriously). If I had had a phone that had a camera I probably (if I had felt brave enough) would have taken a sneaky pic or video to show the police.

This is all my own opinion/experience only.
 
Skeeter303 said:
Later in the last thread someone posted about an assault she experienced. She is a symbol of female strength, and many of us do not realize how hard it is to share that trauma. She was brave enough to share her memory(THANK YOU)- so I thought I would risk posting something a little....upsetting.
We all need to accept that female assault more common than we are told. I have spent many years in school focusing on Women's Studies and self-defense. One thing that has always bothered me is the lack of information that women and men provided with. We ARE strong, and we can't take it!! So here's the facts Ladies-

-1 out of every 2 women will experience some form of sexual assault in their lifetime.
That's you or someone love, someone you know.

-almost 20 percent of us will experience RAPE. That's 1 in every 5 girls that will be forced to endure the most evil of violations, and learn to live beyond it. - and to make things worse....Experts admit that those numbers are higher due to fear of reporting!!

/one in three victims of sexual assault are under 18- BABIES, KIDS.

-Every 8 minutes one child is sexually assaulted.

Why does this shock us? I can tell you that NO ONE ever informed me until I sought it out.
Why are we not warned? FEAR. Those numbers are horrifying. I know that letting my own daughters hear those facts was HARD, ok, almost impossible.
I didn't want my babies to know how vulnerable we are as females. I didn't want them to to live everyday with the fear of knowing that the world is full of predators.
It breaks my heart to admit that even with everything I've learned, I still have no idea how to perfectly protect my babies from not only the FEAR of these statistics, but the fact that one of them are likely to experience this terror themselves.

I feel helpless. But I have learned some important things, weapons, that I can give my kids to use. This is what hey have heard, over and over, from the time they could listen...

1. YOUR INSTINCTS DO NOT LIE. obey them.
When anyone near you is making you feel "aware", do not cower, ever. It all goes back to instincts and the "cat chasing the mouse" theory. I tell my girls to turn around, stand up straight and FACE IT. Look the person in the eye- LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE AWARE they are near you -and tell them with your eyes that you will not be easy to mess with. If you feel fear, express it.. LOUDLY AND FIRMLY, do not be nice. Don't ever be afraid to make a mistake, you will never embarrass yourself because men are not idiots. Good men understand and appreciate that we are protective of our spaces. They have mothers. If you make a mistake- "Then you can walk away and be proud that you put your strong little body before a stranger's feelings." Be even stronger the next time.

2. We are often warned many robberies will not become violent as long as we don't fight back. TRUE- Don't fight to keep your things.
HOWEVER.....
SEXAUL ASSAULT IS DIFFERENT.
Compliance often feeds them your power- they will use your fear to make them stronger. Rapists want something that will not go away until they violate you or it is clear to them that they will not get what they want easily. They want power. Monsters will tell you that what they want is your body. They are lying. They are looking for YOUR POWER, and they will use your body and you fear to get it. I tell my girls to FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT. I want them to CURSE, scratch, pee, OR THROW UP on the predator. I let my girls know that the best chance they have in a sexual attack is by FIGHTING. "When bad people say they wont hurt you if you don't fight- listen to only the words HURT AND FIGHT. ALWAYS FIGHT. (I realize that there are times this won't work, but statistics show that our best chance to survive is to FIGHT.)
IMO, from all I have learned; this is the most powerful advice I can give my girls to survive sexual assault. Statistics have proven this and I want them to know.
Remember, ignorance is fear- if we know, we have power.
Hope this helps
There are a few other things that I think are important...but those two are the best weapons I have to give my kids and keep them safe.

Let you me know if

this doesn't bore you and I'll add a few other things I've learned:)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Definitely not boring. Sobering statistics we need to remember.

Just curious though, will you cite your source for the statistics?

TIA
 
Bird of Paradise said:
I don't have the link but it was Libby's grandfather that made the comment. It's been discussed (as you noted) and shown that the pinging doesn't mean the phone was in transit.
Click to expand...

Beer said:
You have to search journalist or photographer Facebook.

He mentioned it then there was a long discussion here about backdating photos in FB.

I just watched the entire helicopter video and it was just a different searcher imo. They pan to two guys in the creek near shore, a few minutes later they show the row of searchers with hards on each other's shoulders and one of the two guys are in that frame.
Click to expand...

Jax49 said:
jkyle.keener -- photographer who saw clothes in the creek

IT HAS BEEN A TRAGIC DAY IN CARROLL COUNTY, INDIANA, the scene of a double murder. One thing they never teach you in journalism school is how creepy it feels to have to cover a homicide. For several hours I photographed the search for two missing 13-year-old girls. This type of endeavor is stressful for the searchers, the first responders and also the media at the scene. Detectives found the bodies of two missing teens near a rural hiking trail below the abandoned Monon high railroad bridge. The bridge itself in incredibly beautiful making it difficult to witness a horrific murder scene so nearby. From 75-yards away I could see girls clothing in Deer Creek east of the bridge and knew full well that the girls where found very nearby. To walk in a place that a murderer had walked only a handful of hours earlier is extremely upsetting, but as journalists it is part of the business that simply needs done to tell the news of our area. Photos by J. Kyle Keener / Pharos-Tribune copyright 2017
Click to expand...

Steleheart said:
“Missing, abducted, we don’t know for sure,” said Patty.” The cellphone has been pinging around town – and here there is a cellphone tower – but the ping was last noted around five to six hours ago. And they say the phone is now dead.”
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...3-Feb-2017-9/page24+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us


That is all there is with regard to the phone pinging AFAIK. This "all over town" is a misquote that grew legs as a fact with no links.
This is why we need links for facts or a notation that it is opinion.
Click to expand...

Thank you Jax and Steleheart for providing the links/sources for the pinging and clothing posts.

I completely agree that without referencing the source of a statement, our memories sometimes fail us.

With the multiple and fast moving threads it is easy to misremember something important and all of a sudden we are posting inaccurate information.

It really isn't the respondents obligation to go searching for someone else's link. In this instance, Jax and Steelheart were able to quickly find the correct information but that might not always be the case.

Please provide links to any statement that is not an opinion.
 
MsArk said:
Thank you Jax and Steleheart for providing the links/sources for the pinging and clothing posts.

I completely agree that without referencing the source of a statement, our memories sometimes fail us.

With the multiple and fast moving threads it is easy to misremember something important and all of a sudden we are posting inaccurate information.

It really isn't the respondents obligation to go searching for someone else's link. In this instance, Jax and Steelheart were able to quickly find the correct information but that might not always be the case.

Please provide links to any statement that is not an opinion.
Click to expand...

GOOD THINKING!!
I admit I am often afraid that providing the long links will sometimes be too much to scroll through- when I am short of time, the long posts are intimidating:)- however- its a really great way to make sure the facts stay straight. I agree that it is easy to get mixed up and posting the reference point allows people like me to further research the data/articles if they want learn more!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Thank you for this informative post. You are teaching your daughters skills they will always need....Trusting instincts and fighting back when threatened with sexual assault. I imagine you've read "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin De Becker. If not, it's a must read. This link contains a link to the first chilling chapter at the bottom of the page.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gift_of_Fear

I'd be happy to read what else you've learned. I come away from each thread grateful for the knowledge others have shared that I can use in my life or on other cases.

Skeeter303 said:
Later in the last thread someone posted about an assault she experienced. She is a symbol of female strength, and many of us do not realize how hard it is to share that trauma. She was brave enough to share her memory(THANK YOU)- so I thought I would risk posting something a little....upsetting.
We all need to accept that female assault more common than we are told. I have spent many years in school focusing on Women's Studies and self-defense. One thing that has always bothered me is the lack of information that women and men provided with. We ARE strong, and we can't take it!! So here's the facts Ladies-

-1 out of every 2 women will experience some form of sexual assault in their lifetime.
That's you or someone love, someone you know.

-almost 20 percent of us will experience RAPE. That's 1 in every 5 girls that will be forced to endure the most evil of violations, and learn to live beyond it. - and to make things worse....Experts admit that those numbers are higher due to fear of reporting!!

-one in three victims of sexual assault are under 18- BABIES, KIDS.

-Every 8 minutes one child is sexually assaulted.

Why does this shock us? I can tell you that NO ONE ever informed me until I sought it out.
Why are we not warned? FEAR. Those numbers are horrifying. I know that letting my own daughters hear those facts was HARD, ok, almost impossible.
I didn't want my babies to know how vulnerable we are as females. I didn't want them to to live everyday with the fear of knowing that the world is full of predators.
It breaks my heart to admit that even with everything I've learned, I still have no idea how to perfectly protect my babies from not only the FEAR of these statistics, but the fact that one of them are likely to experience this terror themselves.

I feel helpless. But I have learned some important things, weapons, that I can give my kids to use. This is what hey have heard, over and over, from the time they could listen...

1. YOUR INSTINCTS DO NOT LIE. obey them.
When anyone near you is making you feel "aware", do not cower, ever. It all goes back to instincts and the "cat chasing the mouse" theory. I tell my girls to turn around, stand up straight and FACE IT. Look the person in the eye- LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE AWARE they are near you -and tell them with your eyes that you will not be easy to mess with. If you feel fear, express it.. LOUDLY AND FIRMLY, do not be nice. Don't ever be afraid to make a mistake, you will never embarrass yourself because men are not idiots. Good men understand and appreciate that we are protective of our spaces. They have mothers. If you make a mistake- "Then you can walk away and be proud that you put your strong little body before a stranger's feelings." Be even stronger the next time.

2. We are often warned many robberies will not become violent as long as we don't fight back. TRUE- Don't fight to keep your things.
HOWEVER.....
SEXAUL ASSAULT IS DIFFERENT.
Compliance often feeds them your power- they will use your fear to make them stronger. Rapists want something that will not go away until they violate you or it is clear to them that they will not get what they want easily. They want power. Monsters will tell you that what they want is your body. They are lying. They are looking for YOUR POWER, and they will use your body and you fear to get it. I tell my girls to FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT. I want them to CURSE, scratch, pee, OR THROW UP on the predator. I let my girls know that the best chance they have in a sexual attack is by FIGHTING. "When bad people say they wont hurt you if you don't fight- listen to only the words HURT AND FIGHT. ALWAYS FIGHT. (I realize that there are times this won't work, but statistics show that our best chance to survive is to FIGHT.)
IMO, from all I have learned; this is the most powerful advice I can give my girls to survive sexual assault. Statistics have proven this and I want them to know.
Remember, ignorance is fear- if we know, we have power.
Hope this helps
There are a few other things that I think are important...but those two are the best weapons I have to give my kids and keep them safe.

Let you me know if

this doesn't bore you and I'll add a few other things I've learned:)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
 
Mike Patty told WLFI: " the cellphone has been pinging around town - but the ping was last noted around five to six hours ago. And they say the phone is dead"

The "Patty" quoted previously is Mike PATTY , Liberty's grandfather.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
2Hope4 said:
:thinking:Why is the perp not leaving a shadow in those stills from the video?
Click to expand...
Excellent point! I did not notice that, I would think at that time of day or between 2:07-3:30 the sun would not be perfectly overhead to not leave a shadow. Why is it? I have no clue and won't speculate that.

btw
Thank You to mods putting in the extra hours babysitting us as we grow more frustrated at the situation. We can all get grumpy myself included.
 
I think if this guy truly had this planned, I still don't see how he would have known Abigail and Liberty would be there that far in advance. If he planned ahead, then he planned to do 'something' that day, then it wouldn't matter to him if it were two teenage girls, two preteen boys or a woman out jogging on the trail. He is just evil and the lives mean nothing to him. He's probably the cowardly type that tortured small dogs or cats when he was younger.

I shouldn't review the facts on this case so early in the morning. I think about what else might be on that audio and makes me ill and angry.
 
Now I have read a lot and I may have missed some earlier threads. The thought is stuck on my mind so I have to leave lurkdom.....The shiny spot on BG:s right wrist, is that a watch? and is it a myth that lefthanded people more often wears it on the right arm...Sorry if it has ben mentioned earlier I really tried to read up on everything and now I am going to have a painkiller for a headache
 
Skeeter303 said:
GOOD THINKING!!
I admit I am often afraid that providing the long links will sometimes be too much to scroll through- when I am short of time, the long posts are intimidating:)- however- its a really great way to make sure the facts stay straight. I agree that it is easy to get mixed up and posting the reference point allows people like me to further research the data/articles if they want learn more!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Nah, don't worry about a post becoming too long just because you include the source links - it's the rule here. Every post must be opinion or have a link for each fact stated. These threads are full of mostly opinion these days because we don't have much to go on, so a lot of new people will just sign up, come straight to the last page of this thread, and post whatever without realizing that because what they've been reading here hasn't BEEN mostly factual for this case (and therefore hasn't had links included, while FACTUAL posts MUST have links to the source included), and without actually reading the rules of the overall website (in-thread opening posts do not include all the rules) so I understand how the new people don't know. But in posts with facts, we are rule-bound to include a link that supports anything we've included as fact, by way of NOT including an opinion statement such as IMO (In My Opinion), JMO (Just My Opinion), or MOO (My Opinion Only).

Hope that helps, and welcome.
 
Brought from thread #23. A new member made their first post and didn't get the red carpet treatment.

annamarie1
user-offline.png
Registered User


Join DateMar 2017Posts1​


he looks like he has a large nose and thin lips

Welcome to Websleuths annamarie1!!! We're glad you joined us!!! I agree with your statement too!​
 
scandinavian girl said:
Now I have read a lot and I may have missed some earlier threads. The thought is stuck on my mind so I have to leave lurkdom.....The shiny spot on BG:s right wrist, is that a watch? and is it a myth that lefthanded people more often wears it on the right arm...Sorry if it has ben mentioned earlier I really tried to read up on everything and now I am going to have a painkiller for a headache
Click to expand...

Welcome out of your lurkdom! It has been speculated that it may be a watch and he could be left-handed, yes. This was a number of threads ago though, and it never hurts to revisit ideas. Some feel the shiny object could be a knife instead. I personally don't find it to be shiny in the original photographs released by LE, and feel that subsequent fiddling with them has caused a number of artifacts and shadows and areas of unnatural contrast that aren't really there (JMO) and think it is the back of his hand but that is simply IMO of course, because we just don't know for sure. :)
 
WELCOME!!
That makes a lot of sense. If someone close to him knew, he could tell them they will be next if they try to inform the police.

vikerii said:
Hi everyone. I'm a recently registered user, and this is my first post. So, as a rookie, I will try to keep this fairly short and hopefully offer something worthwhile. :)

About the reward money...

I live in Chicago's Northwest suburbs. There's a town out by us called Palatine where the "Brown's Chicken Massacre" -- as it was referred to -- occurred in 1993. Horrible horrible crime. Many innocent deaths. It wasn't until 9 years later that the ex-girlfriend of one of the two perps tipped authorities. She apparently knew the whole time that he was involved. She even helped cover for them with a false alibi. But she said fear kept her from coming forward. It took 9 years for her to finally get over her fear and call the authorities.

You can't always count on reward money, emotions nor conscience to push a family member, friend, partner, neighbor, etc to come forward if fear is involved. If the police truly need the help of the public at large, it will very likely have to come from his "outer circle" people. These are people who (a) could I.D. this jerk AND (b) are safely out of reach of his threats.

The problem is, for the outer circle people to be able to help, the Police may very well have to release some more information. Not everything obviously, but certainly more than these blurshots we have now. Perhaps some more photos, perhaps some more audio. Even if some of it could be uncomfortable stuff.

The people that know who this is right now -- if anyone does -- would have come forward already. Perhaps they live in fear. Who knows. But it seems it's going to take someone from his outer circle to identify him. And they will most likely need more to go on before they call in.

It's frustrating. I can tell everyone here truly wants to solve this crime and get justice for the two girls. Just my two cents. Thanks for hearing me out! :)
Click to expand...
 
her said:
Excellent point! I did not notice that, I would think at that time of day or between 2:07-3:30 the sun would not be perfectly overhead to not leave a shadow. Why is it? I have no clue and won't speculate that.

btw
Thank You to mods putting in the extra hours babysitting us as we grow more frustrated at the situation. We can all get grumpy myself included.
Click to expand...



I also noticed the lack of a shadow from the suspect. I think alot of stuff was done to that image before it's release.

On the subject of cellphone, cellphones or constantly reasing out to connect with cell towers, (like a handshake) always trying to stay connected. While in an area of Va for lack of towers if i don't put my phone in airplane mode the. Battery will be dead by morning. I have wondered if that is 1) why it was pinking all over town, trying to stay connected, 2) why the battery went dead. Jmo
 
IMO

This is a guy who has attacked before, I can't imagine it being his first day out and he decides to attack and kill two persons. He has attacked before, maybe had one kill, felt the need to ramp up his game. Is probably still high on the adrenaline.

Very confident in his ability, attacking two people in daylight in a frequented place.

While he remains at large there is a huge chance he will go again.
 
myfewsense said:
View attachment 112378
Here is a quote from attached linked article. LE checked and rechecked sex offenders.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-murders-police-no-closer-solving-crime.html
Click to expand...

You guys... there is a TON of info in this article (linked in above quote) from the Sherriff. Seems they've checked the majority of RSOs in the entire state and a lot more such as search warrants and polygraphs, etc. You'll want to read through this if you haven't. It really seems to give so much more info than we've had concerning the investigation. MOO but please you great sleuthers, check it out fully!

ETA: Thought I better add the link to my part of the post in case it gets quoted:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-murders-police-no-closer-solving-crime.html
 
Wow thread 24!!! I'm no longer able to keep up with the thread's due to real life stuff :(. Just wanted to say good on you all for keeping the thread going for Abby & Libby. May justice not be far away.
 
sydney1 said:
IMO

This is a guy who has attacked before, I can't imagine it being his first day out and he decides to attack and kill two persons. He has attacked before, maybe had one kill, felt the need to ramp up his game. Is probably still high on the adrenaline.

Very confident in his ability, attacking two people in daylight in a frequented place.

While he remains at large there is a huge chance he will go again.
Click to expand...
This is only a frequented place in nice weather, otherwise it's vacant.

Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk
 
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