IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 - #31

[cluciano63]

Perhaps LE got a tip that he (RL) had recently bought, or already owned something used in the crimes. A clerk could have have called in with names of recent Bowie knif purchasers, AS AN EXAMPLE.

 

[gitana1]

Here's my current working theory on how we got to today: RL's alibi suddenly doesn't look so solid, so they get him on a minor probation violation (maybe even on obstruction for giving a false alibi) that allows them to hold him for 15 days. In a WTHR interview from RL's property today, Sgt. Kim Riley again used the "untrue alibi" type line when asked why they were there, so that seems to be about RL.

While in custody, RL said something--either inadvertently or in attempt to explain why he wasn't truthful before--that gave them PC to search his property. The WIBC story I posted in the last thread made clear it was the Carroll County Sheriff's office who uncovered the new development--not ISP or FBI, so it would seem the PC wasn't the result of analysis of existing evidence like DNA, fibers, etc. In fact, IMO, it is their hope is to get more of that type of evidence with this search, rather than them looking to find matches to what they already have.

This seems to be backed up by the fact that RL didn't seem to clam up with LE until very recently. While we can't know for sure, IMO, it was just in the last day or so. Reporters have been asking LE about RL since he was arrested, but it was only today that the lawyer put out a statement that said he didn't do it. And while that is certainly because they searched his property, I can't imagine the lawyer wouldn't have wanted to clear it up with press as soon as he was arrested and questions were being asked--unless something was said in last few days by RL that led to the warrant, and RL becoming uncooperative.

Now, you real experts can poke holes in my theory.

Seems pretty logical to me.

 

[cluciano63]

I really don't think RL did this. I do think someone he knew took advantage of an out building.

I could be totally wrong. I think if the slightest chance he did this, he may have been ticked off they were trespassing on his property and lost it. It also would answer why she was able to record, as he is probably not tech savvy.

I have to admit, I am online all the time but don't use an I-phone and would not think of the "cloud". I might try to delete what I found but not dig deeper. Would probably try to remove and destroy any SIM cards. Always assuming the killer did take the phone.

 

[kytty]

Hi, Katydid23.

I have to wonder if the dogs had hit on the truck. There was a friend with RL in one of the interviews. Could be the friend had the girls scent on him and he rode in RL's truck. If the dogs hit on the truck there could have even been a spot of blood on it or in it. Who knows?

Obviously I don't know what happened or who did it. None of us do. I hope there will be justice for Abby and Libby. I am just so angry these innocent girls were murdered. This is JMO.

*If* dogs did hit on the truck...I wonder if cadaver dogs would alert to secondary transfer? Meaning that the girls were never necessarily in the truck but someone was after they had killed the girls but before they had changed clothes/washed off? Does anyone know? Sorry in advance if this is a stupid question.

 

[SomeoneElse333]

<snip>
A few possibilities I can think of:

- Killer(s) unaware of being recorded (opportunistic kill, somewhat random, unfamiliar with habits)
- Killer(s) left evidence intentionally, possibly even wanted witness/documentation (serial killer who leaves clues)
- Killer(s) planned to be more thorough in destruction of evidence but were frenzied (often hallmark of first kills)
- Killer(s) planned to be more thorough in destruction of evidence but were interrupted (raises more questions than answers unfortunately)
- Killer(s) tried to destroy phone but failed (tech illiterate, possibly older)
- Killer(s) tried to remove files but forensics recovered them anyway (tech savvy, younger killer)

I've wondered if the killer compelled her to record it after she took the initial video. I wonder if, as in previously hypothesised scenarios, the girls snapped pics for whatever reason and that set him off, so he made them record whatever heinous things transpired next. Maybe the twist is not that the video exists at all but the circumstances around why it exists.

____________
The above is just my opinion.

 

[jillycat]

I don't have a link off-hand, but in an interview when asked if LE will release more of the tape, LE stated "We hope we don't have to."

They haven't been crystal clear about some aspects and I don't have citations for each but so far LE has indicated:

- The 2 photos of BG are still frames taken from a longer video recording
- The media was recovered from Libby's phone, found on her body (see below)
- The clip also contains audio ("down the hill")
- When asked if BG is the person talking, LE very deliberately does not confirm
- Instead they very specifically stated "We would like people to make that assumption."

Some of the critical bits of information that have not been provided yet (to my knowledge)

- Timestamp of the recording(s)
- Does LE at least know BG is the person talking (even if they won't confirm to public)
- Whether the media had been deleted and recovered by forensics

I'm specifically interested in whether the media needed to be restored because it would indicate a certain awareness by the killer. I'm extremely confused as to how someone could stalk these girls and not realize they're recording audio/video, potentially of their killers. According to family the girls were there specifically for the purpose of taking photos. Yet this evidence was left.

A few possibilities I can think of:

- Killer(s) unaware of being recorded (opportunistic kill, somewhat random, unfamiliar with habits)
- Killer(s) left evidence intentionally, possibly even wanted witness/documentation (serial killer who leaves clues)
- Killer(s) planned to be more thorough in destruction of evidence but were frenzied (often hallmark of first kills)
- Killer(s) planned to be more thorough in destruction of evidence but were interrupted (raises more questions than answers unfortunately)
- Killer(s) tried to destroy phone but failed (tech illiterate, possibly older)
- Killer(s) tried to remove files but forensics recovered them anyway (tech savvy, younger killer)

It's never to my knowledge been confirmed that Libby's phone was found on her body, or that they found her phone at all.

 

[mandy.maree]

I think RL is protecting someone, and thinking logically it has to be someone he cares about or someone he's terrified of. To me he just seems bewildered but at the same time it's almost like he's trying to convince himself he doesn't know who it is.
I always found it odd that LE allowed him back on his property so quickly considering it was the scene of a double homicide, he was showing reporters around and who knows how many other people wandered on to his land in the following days to "check out" the crime scene. How can they expect to find evidence now and why are they only just checking his house now? What's happened in the last week to make all of this come about?
I don't think it's him but I do think he has a good idea who it could be!

May just be trying to draw out someone close to him by making them think they are arresting RL over these awful crimes

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[Kaydence]

I just don't think RL is the killer. I don't see how. Unless he has murdered before, killing two girls would be so unusual. Two girls isn't some older guy getting cranky, or having a sexual fantasy, or snapping. The person that did this (imo and from other cases) has done this before, or has done something really really heinous.

 

[FreeRoad]

Possibly BG has a white truck also but he has left the area. If so RL knows who he is and what he is capable of and is afraid he will come back.

Is it known whose white truck it was that was taken from RL's property? Was there a view documented of the license plate? Do we know for sure it is RL's truck?

Please forgive me if I've missed that documentation somewhere in all these links to videos and statements and articles. I don't know how you folks keep up with this all. I am in awe of you.

 

[Scarlett12]

Many killers leave bodies or bury bodies on their own property. Gacy, Dahmer, and recently, Todd Kohlhepp, are just a few.

Or the search was organized much faster than he dreamed. Seems to me LE and family members got the word out fast..

If someone wasn't knowledgeable about SM they wouldn't understand how fast word travels

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[Jax49]

I don't have a link off-hand, but in an interview when asked if LE will release more of the tape, LE stated "We hope we don't have to."

They haven't been crystal clear about some aspects and I don't have citations for each but so far LE has indicated:

- The 2 photos of BG are still frames taken from a longer video recording
- The media was recovered from Libby's phone, found on her body (see below)
- The clip also contains audio ("down the hill")
- When asked if BG is the person talking, LE very deliberately does not confirm
- Instead they very specifically stated "We would like people to make that assumption."

Some of the critical bits of information that have not been provided yet (to my knowledge)

- Timestamp of the recording(s)
- Does LE at least know BG is the person talking (even if they won't confirm to public)
- Whether the media had been deleted and recovered by forensics

I'm specifically interested in whether the media needed to be restored because it would indicate a certain awareness by the killer. I'm extremely confused as to how someone could stalk these girls and not realize they're recording audio/video, potentially of their killers. According to family the girls were there specifically for the purpose of taking photos. Yet this evidence was left.

A few possibilities I can think of:

- Killer(s) unaware of being recorded (opportunistic kill, somewhat random, unfamiliar with habits)
- Killer(s) left evidence intentionally, possibly even wanted witness/documentation (serial killer who leaves clues)
- Killer(s) planned to be more thorough in destruction of evidence but were frenzied (often hallmark of first kills)
- Killer(s) planned to be more thorough in destruction of evidence but were interrupted (raises more questions than answers unfortunately)
- Killer(s) tried to destroy phone but failed (tech illiterate, possibly older)
- Killer(s) tried to remove files but forensics recovered them anyway (tech savvy, younger killer)

BBM

A couple of days ago ABC News reported that LE has confirmed that the voice saying "down the hill" is bridge guy.

 

[Peace777]

I wonder if RL had any visitors while he was in jail? As those conversations are usually being recorded. The phone calls too are recorded JMO

 

[BunnyHop]

Is it known whose white truck it was that was taken from RL's property? Was there a view documented of the license plate? Do we know for sure it is RL's truck?

Please forgive me if I've missed that documentation somewhere in all these links to videos and statements and articles. I don't know how you folks keep up with this all. I am in awe of you.

one of the recent links (last few pages) states all vehicles belong to property owner.

 

[BunnyHop]

Or the search was organized much faster than he dreamed. Seems to me LE and family members got the word out fast..

If someone wasn't knowledgeable about SM they wouldn't understand how fast word travels

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Good point, it did happen very quickly.

 

[Steleheart]

Well, that's me done. It is very, very, very dark-thirty for me on the other side of the pond so I must bid you all good night.:bed:

One step closer!

Bonne nuit!

 

[Hatfield]

I have posted before on my ex/military theory yesterday and it's a valid argument that this guy has gone ghost and LE is baffled by the finding no trace. What if he happened to be from another country entirely using the states to get lost in? British Military either from Scotland or North England from the sound of the voice recording imho.

Re BBM

Very early in this case that was my first impression about the voice and I still sense a slight british accent as i guess at it.

I am not sure about any military background but the theory that he may have been traveling to the states for a short period and thinking he could easily get away with a murder knowing he would be traveling back to home country is an interesting theory.

If this perp is tied to the Iowa girls murder then it could be why LE is stumped if the perp leaves the country shortly after the murders each time.

I dont know that we have ever seen a serial murderer killing in one country and then traveling back and doing it multiple times.
I could see where it could make a sick perp think he could get away with it scott free.

 

[RatKat]

It should have been, but it so often isn't, especially with teens and even more so if it's more than one. And Delphi is a super small town that had never dealt with anything close to this. They won't make this mistake again the next time a teen doesn't show up on time, IMO. Their police force has been shocked into a new reality.

I wonder if they accessed the phone the night they went missing or found other evidence they were dead and they didn't want searchers trampling evidence in the dark.

 

[Safeguard]

It's never to my knowledge been confirmed that Libby's phone was found on her body, or that they found her phone at all.

It's been linked many times throughout these threads. They did find her phone. http://www.in.gov/isp/delphi.htm
snipped

"Additionally, investigators have released a voice recording, extracted from a video found on Liberty "Libby" German's cell phone",

Other sources have said the phone was found on Libby....IIRC

 

[Alexsea]

*If* dogs did hit on the truck...I wonder if cadaver dogs would alert to secondary transfer? Meaning that the girls were never necessarily in the truck but someone was after they had killed the girls but before they had changed clothes/washed off? Does anyone know? Sorry in advance if this is a stupid question.

Studying up. The next dog I train Is going to be a SAR dog. I *think* they might make a hit if conditions were right, but I don't know. It's not a precise science.


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[kc1023]

I am heavy hearted in the realization that one or both girls were likely kept alive for some time before they were murdered at the hands of this .

I believe there will be another search warrant executed at a different residence on Bicycle Rd. The pings were a little off is my feeling on this.

The girls were not murdered by RL. I'm not sure if he had any role in this crime at all, other than being extremely used by someone he knows well.

I think his shock - and likely denial - that we have witnessed, is that there is a very close connection to him in this heinous double homicide.

Nobody is going to be comfortable with the details to come. But, I think that LE is in full control of this one.

MOO

WG

IMO Wondergirl has managed to put it together. Wow.

Sigh. It's all very sad for so many.