IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #38

[Ashley95]

I hear ya. I was just jumping in, maybe I should go back and first read, apologies.
I thought I read open casket, but now I'm not sure. All I'm seeing is public viewing and visitation.

Wasnt this cleared up ages ago. A guy on here whose sister was sadly murdered and throat cut was still able to have open casket. Make up and scarves.

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[ocgrad]

<snipped for space>
When I have delved down into the town and the people surrounding the girls, I see something darker and more complicated at play. I keep thinking the girls were a pawn in some game and ended up collateral damage. Perhaps that is what is happening to RL as well. I wonder if this is part of the reason LE is so tight lipped.

I have found the same thing looking deeper into the things going on there and with the circles around the girls. My eyes have been opened into the tragic way these small towns in the heartland are changing due to drugs and gangs. I lean away from thinking the original motivation was sexual attack, although it may have occurred. My hope is that through that video identifying the killer(s), many other violent crimes will be solved as well as prevented. Could the girls in Flora have justice in this crime being solved? Other children of unsolved crimes. I hope so.

 

[No it's not]

I just googled for news articles in the past 24 hours and this video from ABC came up. I don't see a date on the video but Google dated is as today 3/24/17. I grabbed a couple screenshots because I noticed something I haven't seen before inside the crime tape. About the 1:48 mark. The large limb down (far lower right of pic just below ABC logo), it looks like a fresh break. And then as your eye goes further toward the creek in the back it looks like more smaller trees and/or limbs down, forming a line. Generally in the woods branches & limbs are down in a random manner, a dead limb here, a few branches there. If it were a storm or wind I'd expect to see breakage more spread out, not so concentrated in such a tight area. This looks like a small cluster of saplings or branches broken almost as if it's on a path to the creek in the background. Yet most everything immediately to the left & right of the cluster looks undisturbed or has been laying for awhile. I've put small yellow arrows in the 3rd pic to show you where I'm seeing breaks and how they seem to form a line. They all seem to have fallen toward the left. I'm seeing fresh breaks at the arrows just below and above the ABC logo. Could this be a sign of a major struggle? Like a child fighting with all they've got, trying to grab & hold onto whatever they can as if they're resisting an adult man who's pulling or dragging them? (It all just makes me sick ) MOO

http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/community-shock-double-homicide-delphi-indiana-46300322

Yes, I noticed that too. It may have to do with equipment LE brought in? You can also see in the helicopter video, that they had vehicles brought quite the way down.

Good observation!

All IMO

-Nin

 

[margarita25]

I asked a simple question and never brought up cause of death!<modsnip>

I think it's all good now. Hopefully my posts helped smooth things out. :heart: I think Tokyorose was just trying to be careful, etc.

They had open caskets.

So again IMO no major blunt force trauma to their faces. Gah I hate typing such things. ETA: or maybe not, idk...

 

[sloane7777]

I had a friend drown and was recovered quickly and they had to have a closed due to the swelling , I'm not sure if that's the norm though. so that would rule out as a cod if that is a normal thing , not sure

 

[margarita25]

I had a friend drown and was recovered quickly and they had to have a closed due to the swelling , I'm not sure if that's the norm though. so that would rule out as a cod if that is a normal thing , not sure

Great point. If they had been in water for an extended period of time I would think maybe the caskets would have been closed. But for discussion purposes, technically their COD could still be drowning if they were held under the water then placed on land. Similar to how I imagine that occurred in little Gabby Doolan's case.

 

[BunnyHop]

Looking at the photos and the way that RL and his friend/neighbor talked about the steep climb and how nobody could carry them, etc, makes me wonder if the girls were brought from the cemetery or RL's outbuildings. I don't think RL had anything to do with the murders. I think he has had a hard life and made some pretty huge mistakes.

The more that I learn about the community in Delphi, the more I see that families are very connected and have been for a very long time. Most of them have had their homes, land or property for fifty plus years. They have married into each other's families. They are very committed to the history of the town and preserving it as much as they can. They all absolutely love their schools and are very involved with their class reunions. They maintain friendships for life.

On the other hand, there's an underlying drug/criminal element. You can read the Carroll County Comet and see who has been arrested and for what crime. There are a lot of transients in and out of the town, it's right off the highway. Even RL has reported squatters on his 40 acres in the past.

I'm on the fence when I try to think about the motive for the murders. When I look at the surface, it is very easy for me to believe the girls were abducted by a pedophile/serial killer who took the risk of being caught in public and in broad daylight. When I have delved down into the town and the people surrounding the girls, I see something darker and more complicated at play. I keep thinking the girls were a pawn in some game and ended up collateral damage. Perhaps that is what is happening to RL as well. I wonder if this is part of the reason LE is so tight lipped.

I don't know where I'm going with this. I guess I am just running in circles and chasing my tail. I took a break yesterday and was hoping I could come back with a clearer head. Thanks for listening!


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Jumping off your post:

Wednesday, Feb. 15, 2017

8 a.m. Autopsies are conducted in Terre Haute on the bodies discovered during Tuesday’s search. Local authorities convene a meeting after the autopsies are complete.

10 a.m. Sgt. Kim Riley with Indiana State Police provides a brief update on the investigation. He says the autopsies are complete but declines to confirm the identities or discuss a suspect or person of interest in the case. He says police have received “hundreds of tips” from the community.

By 10AM on Wed. They had HUNDREDS of tips.

http://fox59.com/2017/02/16/timelin...iberty-german-and-abigail-williams-in-delphi/

 

[Justice101]

Following....

 

[margarita25]

Wasnt this cleared up ages ago. A guy on here whose sister was sadly murdered and throat cut was still able to have open casket. Make up and scarves.

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Thanks for the input. I've been here since DAY 1, even before their bodies were found. I've spent days, hours, weeks on this case and tried to read as many threads and posts as humanly possible. I obviously missed this. Yes scarves could be worn. I used the word faces. Yes makeup can do wonders, but I don't think if there was that much trauma to their faces they could be displayed. Idk...I think I'm done with this aspect of discussion. :wave:

ETA: I could be totally wrong. Maybe makeup...

 

[Rachel1]

The open casket-closed casket argument is really null because it absolutely is on a case to case basis.
Two people that died the same exact way could have two different outcomes. It depends on many factors including but not limited to the skill of the person prepping the corpse.
I've noticed blunt force trauma to the face-open casket
But yet gunshot to the leg and buttocks- closed casket.
Each person will have a different story and we could go around and around for hours about who's sister had an &#8203;open casket and who's brother didn't but we wouldn't be getting any closer to determining the COD for Abby and Libby because like I said, there's so many variables that it comes down to each case individually.

 

[sloane7777]

The open casket-closed casket argument is really null because it absolutely is on a case to case basis.
Two people that died the same exact way could have two different outcomes. It depends on many factors including but not limited to the skill of the person prepping the corpse.
I've noticed blunt force trauma to the face-open casket
But yet gunshot to the leg and buttocks- closed casket.
Each person will have a different story and we could go around and around for hours about who's sister had an &#8203;open casket and who's brother didn't but we wouldn't be getting any closer to determining the COD for Abby and Libby because like I said, there's so many variables that it comes down to each case individually.

totally answered my question ! thankyouverymuch

 

[NancyDrew007]

Jumping off your post:



By 10AM on Wed. They had HUNDREDS of tips.

http://fox59.com/2017/02/16/timelin...iberty-german-and-abigail-williams-in-delphi/

Jumping off yours

Between 10 am and 3 pm on Wednesday, LE switch from 'watch your kids and whereabouts' to 'there is no immediate danger." At 10, they had already been briefed on the autopsies. So what changed? Must have been a credible tip?


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[Rachel1]

I personally don't think RL is BG either ( sorry sometimes quoting is messed up here for me and other times it works just fine!)
I loved the comment made about collateral damage.
I believe RL is collateral damage here. He's made some really awful choices in life but I don't think that he'll end up being BG.
I actually feel sorry for him. So many have called him a killer without one shred of evidence to back up that claim. If he turns out not to be BG, those same people will just turn around and start pointing fingers at the next person without waiting for evidence to pass judgement. It hurts them none because they are sitting ten States away anonymously behind their keyboard while real people are forever affected by their rumors and judgmental gossiping.
If RL is BG then I'm sure we'll know in time. At that point he'd be open game but until then, he may just be collateral damage.

 

[24Roses]

Here you go:

Thank you! Based on this map and Otto's post 56 on this thread about access to the trail, I have new thoughts today. IMO-it is possible that BG could of planned to visit RL on February 13th. That is if BG knows RL (I think he does). BG learned that RL was going to be gone for an extended time that day & decided to use RL's property a way to get to and from the bridge. If my math is correct, it is about 0.6 of a mile from RL's house to the bridge if you cut through the woods & use the marked trail on the map (in turquoise) from the pink line from RL's house. After BG did what he did to Abby and Libby , he went back to RL's house and changed clothes and took care of whatever evidence he thought he could dispose of; he may of even been in the house before the crime and used RL's clothes, etc. Because of break in's in the past at RL's property, I think it is possible that RL could have hidden cameras. RL could of been less than truthful to LE about this once he discovered BG on the cameras and is now covering for BG. BG also could of used RL as his alibi for the time when the crime was committed and maybe RL was not aware of that right away & said he went alone to buy fish. This could be part of where the less than truthful alibis could come in. Again, this is all :moo: and I could be totally wrong and way off what is possible of being realistic.

 

[WestieMom]

Or - one survived in the water and pulled the other one out to get help, but succumbed possibly to hypothermia.. Awful thought, I know.

-Nin

Oh wow! Always great thoughts from you!!


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[Jethro4WS]

I have previously posted the search activities per the Carroll County fire scanner and I emphasize there isn't much traffic but it does give you a timeline of certain activities.

This link opens to a folder. The audio files containing search radio traffic are there. There is a text file that lists which file, what time in the file, and a transcript of the message.

The one thing I will point out is that the last activity is likely at a point shortly after the girls were found which occurred at 12:11pm.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bx0LL2gY_AordzJTTTAtT0FLbnM

I am still finishing up with Indiana State Police scanner traffic and I will be posting those audio files and a text file just like I have for the Fire Scanner likely for tomorrow. The same is true as with the fire scanner there isn't much radio traffic. However, it too provides indications of the types of searches going on and where and when. The key things so far:

There was a helicopter based searched that was conducted between 9am and 12:00pm on the 14th. There was one State Police helicopter involved. There is mention of a Life Flight helicopter (at 9am) but it is unclear if that helicopter was involved with the search or passing through the airspace. The helicopter search was only conducted East of the bridge along the creek and the land surrounding it on both sides of the creek to a distance of 4 miles. The helicopter search did not sight the girls.

While there has been mention of dogs involved in the search it appears that they did not arrive prior to the girls being found. The last transmission concerning an ETA for the dogs occurred about the time the girls were found.

In conjunction with that, the dogs were to be directed to a location where tracks had been found. There is no indication in the radio transmissions that these would be the same tracks that led to the girls. There was radio traffic to ISP personnel to keep people away from the tracks until the dogs arrived.

There is no scanner traffic confirming that the girls were found and a citizen did report to an ISP officer that the girls had been found already but the ISP dispatch center had no confirmation of that - that was about 25 minutes after the girls were found. Keep in mind that the dispatch center would not be necessarily privy to, or in contact with the search command which should also be noted was not being run by ISP. And I would also add that when situations like this (finding bodies) occur it is often the case where they don't broadcast that over the air and that leads to situations such as this where not all units involved know that the find has been made.

Like I said, I should be able to get those files uploaded and write up the text file like I did for the fire scanner for tomorrow. The only thing I will say about the ISP scanner archive (out of Tippicanoe County) is that it is a stereo broadcast with one speaker ISP and the other speaker Lafayette, West Lafayette, and Purdue police departments. So there can be and is many times where there are transmissions at the same time. It will be easier to listen to if I isolate the times and which speaker you should be listening to rather than trying to pick it out of everything else going on.

 

[tokyorose]

I personally don't think RL is BG either ( sorry sometimes quoting is messed up here for me and other times it works just fine!)
I loved the comment made about collateral damage.
I believe RL is collateral damage here. He's made some really awful choices in life but I don't think that he'll end up being BG.
I actually feel sorry for him. So many have called him a killer without one shred of evidence to back up that claim. If he turns out not to be BG, those same people will just turn around and start pointing fingers at the next person without waiting for evidence to pass judgement. It hurts them none because they are sitting ten States away anonymously behind their keyboard while real people are forever affected by their rumors and judgmental gossiping.
If RL is BG then I'm sure we'll know in time. At that point he'd be open game but until then, he may just be collateral damage.

I agree with just about everything you said. I also don't think RL is BG and our current TOS here don't allow us to accuse him of the crime. This is a very good thing. If he has any involvement, (which LE hasn't said either way yet due to SW evidence not processed yet) I think he may have unknowingly provided a ride out of town to Lafayette to BG... It may be that he was out working in his yard when BG came by and RL said hello meaning to be friendly ( as midwesterners tend to be) and they got to talking and RL offered him a ride not knowing what BG had just done on his very own property. If this is the case then he must be racked with guilt. This is all JMO of course. It could also explain the reduced presence of LE in Delphi if they know they need to search for BG "other places"

 

[Confusion]

Please tell me where it says the girls were killed in the water? Or even ever in the water as I have not seen that in MSM or from LE.

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I never said they were. I asked those who believe they were to explain why they would have been moved to where they were found rather than just left in the water. That's especially confusing if one or both of them died from falling or being pushed off the bridge. MOO

 

[Beer]

So new line of thought I don't think has been mentioned before. The police said a few times that the girls stayed together, that one may have had a chance to make a run for it, but they kept together.

Maybe there was an "agreement" that one would be assaulted and both let go if they went along with the plan.

Hence, no struggle, no screaming and they walked themselves to the final restung spot. Imo.

 

[BunnyHop]

Jumping off yours

Between 10 am and 3 pm on Wednesday, LE switch from 'watch your kids and whereabouts' to 'there is no immediate danger." At 10, they had already been briefed on the autopsies. So what changed? Must have been a credible tip?


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IDK. The girls were found Tuesday and less then 24 hours later they have hundreds of tips from the community. I find that astounding.
AND, that's before they released that picture! What do you make of it?