IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #50

[otto]

Again, I'm bothered by the lack of attention in the MSM and by LE. I heard of the Stratton case only through this one, and it has not been solved, only that reports state that the girls (!) are runaways.

So sad.

Other than Atlanta, Indiana, where were they last seen? What were they doing? Were they are school and didn't come home, were they at a party and everyone lost track of them, were they on a rural hike and they vanished? There must be more information about their disappearances.

 

[kat913]

This is where I have to laugh, and for good reason.

He's been on the same property for 50+ years, for RL to commit both crimes would defy logic and reason, I can't even wrap my head around that one, and i have a healthy imagination.

Especially since the past 5 years he has been having lots of legal trouble involving driving suspension and loss of license etc.....doesn't leave much room to drive 12 hours round trip to Iowa. Quite the gamble when just going to the dump got him caught lol!!

 

[Bemused]

Similar to this case, the family was on it right away - in fact sooner than this case. The girls were riding their bikes in a nearby parking lot, watched by their grandmother, when they decided to cycle to the nearby, somewhat rural park in South Evansdale. In one hour, they were long gone. Their bikes were left behind, which left police dragging manmade lakes and searching nearby waterways. Family looked in the right place, but they were too late.

I meant in response to why FBI was there right away. If abduction was suspected I'd expect them to be called in, particularly given their young ages.

 

[Bemused]

Another important point. And again, not knowing COD and the autopsy finds it is only everyone's guess, if they were possibly showing defensive wounds or not for example. Even if at some point the life of the first victim was taken, the other victim must have fought in one way or the other.

Libby was a math whiz according to statements of family and friends, she must have been fast to thinking. She has also participated in at least one self defense course as stated in MSM. According to LE Libby had the "presence of mind" to engage the video function on her cell phone. She was a fast thinker IMO. If Abby was taken out first, Libby would have acted in some way. If Libby had been taken out first, I have no idea, if Abby would have known what to do or not. In any case, chances are fifty fifty, that at least one of the victims would have fought. And nobody heard or saw anything, that we know of (!).

Why not? Either nobody was close enough to hear or see anything, or the killer was known to Abby and Libby IMO. But if the killer was known to Abby and Libby, why did they film him? Perhaps he was just in the picture and the point is, that Libby had actual audio in addition.

The audio part may be the most important clue combined with any additional evidence, if they have any. Imagine for a moment the killer was indeed known to the girls, who is to say he hadn't been around on the trails (from a far) and the girls were becoming suspicious of him? If he was differently dressed or concealed himself (glasses?), they would not necessarily recognize him. Libby may have even texted someone (friends? family?) to get picked up earlier due to that suspicious person. See that? So in the end, it was the "suspicious" POI/BG, who killed them and not a familiar person. JMO. Not saying that's what happened. Just trying to rattle minds.;--)

All IMO

-Nin

Very interesting post and truly one of the better and thought-provoking of late. Thank you.

 

[Ghosthunter]

Thanks for the great conversations tonight. Happy easter my websleuth family! Have a great night

 

[otto]

I don't know if there are any newer articles and statements about this, but Sgt. John Perrine, Indiana State Police, is on record saying that investigators don't believe there's a connection between the Iowa and the Delphi homicides.

https://www.953mnc.com/2017/03/10/delphi-teen-murders-not-connected-high-profile-iowa-case/

Thank you! I will continue to look for similarities simply because I'm curious.

"Perrine says investigators believe any similarities between that case and the recent killings of 14-year-old Liberty German and 13-year-old Abigail Williams are a coincidence."

https://www.953mnc.com/2017/03/10/delphi-teen-murders-not-connected-high-profile-iowa-case/

 

[AmateurAnalyst73]

Yes. They went missing in July(?) and weren't found until December(?)IIRC

Were the Iowa girls considered abducted?

 

[MistyWaters]

Perhaps all known vehicles in the area during the crime window were accounted for or conversely there was no evidence of unaccounted-for-vehicles? Alternatively, perhaps they were looking to corroborate someone's alibi or providing consideration that persons in the area may have had suspended licences and might rely on others for transportation?

It might have been as simple that a tip was put forward of a suspicious looking person noticed to be hitchhiking and LE was attempting to identify that person.

 

[Falling Down]

BBM

That's a comforting thought to sleep on!!

Apparently, some killers have been members, here.

Food for thought.

Sleep tight

 

[Falling Down]

A totally left field theory. Certainly not suggesting the deaths are connected to this particular case but such a scenario is within the realm of possibility, traffickers get their victims from somewhere. Some might fight back, the kidnapper becomes angered, loses it, violence...

Two Ohio pastors arrested for sex trafficking of children
http://myfox28columbus.com/news/loc...stor-arrested-for-sex-trafficking-of-children

"The FBI began an investigation after getting information a few weeks ago, the Toledo Blade reports"

Intriguing all the same.

Along a similar vein...

Libby's grandfather stated that she fought with the killer, before her death. Like other here, I've wondered if this crime was not only premeditated in nature, but also if there might be an abduction and trafficking aspect to it, but the girls resisted the killer(s) along the way.

We don't know at this point, I guess.

 

[hilary1617]

Apologies if this has been posted and I just missed it.

http://www.pharostribune.com/news/local_news/article_c23fda53-e0ef-5d3a-a055-3972795bcb7a.html

I'm reminded sadly, of how many young girls this community has recently lost. The sisters in the home destroyed by arson, as mentioned in this article, the tragic recent gun cleaning accident and this horrific double homicide. My heart breaks for Delphi...

 

[Bemused]

Yes. They went missing in July(?) and weren't found until December(?)IIRC

I'm not making myself clear. Did the local police immediately think abduction and call in the feds? I realize they were abducted and murdered as we now know, but in the early hours they were reported missing, when did FBI become involved?

Anyone up to speed on the Iowa case: was only one killer suspected? I'm curious how he managed two. How far were they found from where they disappeared? TIA

If Perrine said no connection, then not relevant. This Abby and Libby case is exhausting enough, but the little Iowa girls case is intriguing. Sad it's not solved, but maybe someday.

 

[jillycat]

Thank you! I will continue to look for similarities simply because I'm curious.

"Perrine says investigators believe any similarities between that case and the recent killings of 14-year-old Liberty German and 13-year-old Abigail Williams are a coincidence."

https://www.953mnc.com/2017/03/10/delphi-teen-murders-not-connected-high-profile-iowa-case/

I think it's an interesting comparison as well. And so did LE. I read another article that I now can't find where Drew Collins, Elizabeth's dad, said he called the girl's investigator when he heard about Delphi, and they were already 10 steps ahead of him and had been in touch with Indiana.

 

[Aropizt]

Hello Everyone, I am pretty new to this forum and trying to figure out how to contribute right. Anyway - I had an idea. If there was a non profit started for Abigail and Liberty anyone wanting to contribute their DNA for this crime and only for this or other crime they gave permission for --- the potential for a familial identification, would skyrocket.
I feel confident every mother in Indiana and beyond Indiana would get in line to get a cheek swab for Liberty and Abby, because if their 6th cousin did this or even a son or husband, brother - they would want them caught.

This is a nice idea however I think it is prohibitively expensive and still may not solve anything at all (at best they'd discover BG is related to someone distantly but that would still leave many options and unsure what the legality would be either). DNA and genetic testing is amazing, definitely but wildly expensive still. And this kind of testing takes a whole lot more than say 23 and Me (as an example someone listed previously. The FDA has also gone after sites like that and limited how much they can tell folks as well). I'm not a forensic person nor a scientist but I have a genetic disease, at least that's what's suspected but just trying to get insurance to cover genetic testing is insane. I think someone quoted $6000 for that snapshot DNA service and that's about how much extensive genetic testing costs for people who really need it to help figure out their health issues in the US. Possibly more depending on if they're looking at the entire genome and doing full genome mapping or not. Also, that kind of testing is NOT fast or easy. We've seen quotes for crime labs at 4-6 weeks. People I know who have it done medically often have to wait 6 months and I've heard of some who have had to wait more than a year.

The science is there for sure but the technology is still catching up in that regard and is so very expensive still. To an extent that I don't think such an idea as above would be feasible at this time, unfortunately. That said, it's certainly interesting and from all I've read on the future of genetic testing and the rate at which the scientific field is moving ahead in that regard, I think it's entirely possible that in 10-15 years we absolutely could see something like this for solving crimes. At this time though, there is just not enough equipment, time, and money to be testing thousands upon thousands of samples for relation to a criminal.

My opinion and experiences only since it's getting late and I don't have time to look up sources. I like the way you're thinking though.


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[Wondergirl]

Thank you! I will continue to look for similarities simply because I'm curious.

"Perrine says investigators believe any similarities between that case and the recent killings of 14-year-old Liberty German and 13-year-old Abigail Williams are a coincidence."

https://www.953mnc.com/2017/03/10/delphi-teen-murders-not-connected-high-profile-iowa-case/

Well, they also believe that the girls were likely targeted, and I am not sure there is much evidence of this, but, wth do I know?

 

[St. Anthony2017]

Especially since the past 5 years he has been having lots of legal trouble involving driving suspension and loss of license etc.....doesn't leave much room to drive 12 hours round trip to Iowa. Quite the gamble when just going to the dump got him caught lol!!

I just meant that if RL is not BG then BG is probably not a SK connected to Iowa case. Glad you you got a laugh because this case is so sad!!

 

[Evey]

so I made this post on Reddit by want to post it here also in hopes locals maybe can help!

So I've read a lot of things that say they believe he parked at the cemetery and that got my mind thinking, what if he was visiting a grave?

Let's say this guy isn't from there but had family there or maybe he use to or still lives there but either way went to visit a grave and decided to go for a walk after and either by luck or cause of stalking he finds the girls (and maybe keeps a kit for when these things happen in his car) and does what he did.

I feel we should look at any graves that had fresh flowers or that died that day or had a bday that day or who has a living spouse who may want to visit on Valentine's Day. Because that could point to the killers last name. Maybe he was angry because they just died recently and lashed out and did the awful thing. But that would be another thing to check for.

Also there is the idea that he works as a groundskeeper or maintenance man grave digger type job. Someone who would have either been working that day or had a reason to be there. He maybe would have the things on him needed for all of it. And both ideas would give him a knowledge of the area. Assuming they visit the grave often. It's worth a shot. Park employees would also be.

One other thought, does anyone else feel the person either was on or had knowledge of the search party? And where they went. Because to me the fact that they looked st the place the bodies later were found makes me think he put them there after he knew they left and knew they'd went there and hoped it meant they take longer to find the bodies.

I also fully believe the owner is a red herring and maybe his property was used for this hence his behavior and the idiot tried to clean it up on fear and the killer knew he would. It would paint the owner as guilty more and I feel the killer wants that. He wants us to look at the owner and not him and it's working. I bet he was even on the search party and maybe he hates the owner so that was a bonus for him. Maybe a relative of the owner who dislikes him hence the quote he made that sounded directly to the person.
Anyway does anyone have any thoughts on the cemetery? I may share this in one of the Facebook groups but hope a local could maybe go there and look at names and dates and for fresh flowers.

Thanks in advance and sorry for the long post

 

[Burnt Toast]

What is happening to all these children. I find the statistics disturbing.

According to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, roughly 800,000 children are reported missing each year in the United States -- that's roughly 2,000 per day. Of those, there are 115 child "stranger abduction" cases each year, which means the child was taken by an unknown person.

 

[MistyWaters]

Along a similar vein...

Libby's grandfather stated that she fought with the killer, before her death. Like other here, I've wondered if this crime was not only premeditated in nature, but also if there might be an abduction and trafficking aspect to it, but the girls resisted the killer(s) along the way.

We don't know at this point, I guess.

Yes, that's right. And the two girls stood by each other, as if they defended each other.

It was also mentioned by Libby's grandfather that he was under the impression the trail was somewhat of a teen hangout. Purely my imagination but in trafficking situations it's possible out-of-state associates might be on the lookout for locations for abductions to occur that are somewhat isolated.


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[Wondergirl]

One final thought before I go pray for EB to visit...

Suggestions by LE of more than 1 perp have been made on a few different occasions.

I wonder if BG was schizophrenic, and LE thinks he "participated" in the murders (and there might be 2 POI) because they hear 2 sets of voices in the video - whereas it's BG in different voices.

Totally random, but, it's just a thought.

Night all.

WG