IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #54

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I am a bit torn between the murders being specifically planned or just being planned in general and therefore opportunistic by nature. In other words, do you think the girls - or one of them - was being stalked? Or do you think the POI/BG was scouting for a victim/ victims in general and just happened to run into the girls?

-Nin

I am just raising this question, because the killer may not be as smart? Is he smart at all? A risk taker? A gambler? A controller? A violent person? A smooth talker? An organized person?

What is he and who is he?

-Nin
 
If you don't mind my question- The girl that amber alert was named for -AH- abducted Jan 13 1996 in Arlington tx. Lyric cook and cousin abducted July 13 2012 Delphi case feb 13 2017.
These aren't all exactly next door but are within the same corridor of the country if you will. Triangulating the three locations they aren't that far apart easy driving distance.
The similarities between the Delphi case and Evansville are hard to ignore. The 13th date as well as the perp gained control of multiple victims without ANYONE noticing and then vanished. Bodies in all instances found near a creek or river.
If indeed the AH abduction was BG's first sloppy attempt, the psychological literature leads me to think it happened when he was 25- low 30's. That means he's 45-low 50's now.
He could have learned to catfish the girls out there or he could have been out on the 13th in previous months and no viable targets presented themselves.
Just MOO but come on these are too many coincidences.
 
I am just raising this question, because the killer may not be as smart? Is he smart at all? A risk taker? A gambler? A controller? A violent person? A smooth talker? An organized person?

What is he and who is he?

-Nin

Smart. Not a gambler. Organized-very. Not a risk taker. He knew what he was going to do and he was prepared.

JMO
 
How does anyone know, including LE, they were last seen at the high bridge? Was there a witness who actually saw them on the bridge?

It's plausible they were on the trails or even headed home on foot at their last known moments.
 
I am a bit torn between the murders being specifically planned or just being planned in general and therefore opportunistic by nature. In other words, do you think the girls - or one of them - was being stalked? Or do you think the POI/BG was scouting for a victim/ victims in general and just happened to run into the girls?

-Nin

I've been wondering the same since the beginning. Initially, I believed the murders were specific/planned. Then started leaning towards the scouting/happened upon the girls. But then... because LE has been quiet - not sounding alarms suggesting there's a random, scouting murderer trolling Indiana and beyond - I can't quite settle on an opinion.

Curious to know what you and others think.
 
Smart. Not a gambler. Organized-very. Not a risk taker. He knew what he was going to do and he was prepared.

JMO

You do not think he is a risk taker? Can you elaborate please? I am truly interested in anyone's thoughts. Thanks

-Nin
 
I am a bit torn between the murders being specifically planned or just being planned in general and therefore opportunistic by nature. In other words, do you think the girls - or one of them - was being stalked? Or do you think the POI/BG was scouting for a victim/ victims in general and just happened to run into the girls?

-Nin


I think BG was targeting the specific area, not specific victim. I think he had previously scouted the entire area, though is not local. It wouldn't surprise me if he had no clue there was no school that day. I lean toward his thinking being: a mild, mid-winter day, a Monday, maybe a woman who likes to get out for a run or trail walk and hadn't in a while due to weather. Maybe he thought it being a weekday, if he was patient, someone would come along, but the area wouldn't be crowded with witnesses. JMO
 
I know there are still a lot of people posting online who believe this killer abducted the girls in a vehicle & took them elsewhere but I just want to explain a few of the reasons why I feel it's very, very unlikely.

Firstly *IF* this case involved vehicular abduction I don't think he would choose to take the enormous risk of returning the girls to the place they were abducted, in the middle of the very area that was being searched rather than go to any other deserted &/or secluded place in Delphi or the surrounding area (& there are MANY).

Concerned locals were posting on news articles that first night & organising their own searches after the official one was called off. So anyone driving around that night or behaving unusually in Delphi, around the High Bridge in particular, was very much at risk of being noticed.

I also think it's important to note that if the killer did take the huge, completely unnecessary (& possibly unprecedented) risk of returning his victims to their abduction site, he wasn't just facing the massive difficulty of manouvring a huge weight quite some distance down steep, slippery inclines & over difficult terrain TWICE, he would've had to do it all in the dark - running the risk of being injured & unable to leave the scene or even leaving behind DNA evidence from an injury, or identifiable footprints, dropped items, clothing fibres caught on trees or fences etc etc.

Not only would he be doubling his risk of leaving evidence of his identity in an area police were already likely to search, darkness also reduced his ability to clean up after himself. Even if he used a headlamp so that his hands were free he was taking a huge risk. There was footage that night of some of the searchers & it was pitch black out there, visibility was poor even with more than one person using torches. On top of all that, the house on the opposite side of the creek overlooks the crime scene - if he's local or scouted the area he would know this & know that using a light source could draw attention to his activities even if the area was clear of searchers.


Aside from all of the above, there are also LE's statements on Amber Alerts in relation to this case, which appear to support the recent media quote re the girls being diverted from the trails straight to the area they were found.


"Even if we would've put an Amber Alert out, it would not have done this case any good," Riley said. "In the short period of time, and the location that the bodies were found it would not have helped us in finding any leads at all."

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...iley-amber-alert-would-not-have-done-any-good


Personally I believe they were missed the first night because no-one had any idea where they should be looking. They didn't know if they were injured on the trails, lost track of time at a friend's place, or were abducted & speeding towards the state border. There was no reason whatsoever to focus a gridsearch on RL's property the first night so IF his place was searched at all it would've been a quick & cursory calling of the girl's names - because at that point they thought they were searching for 2 kids who at worst, might've suffered nothing more than a sprained ankle & bad ph service. RL's place is FORTY ACRES, much of it covered in gullies, steep inclines & wooded areas - I'm not sure people realise what an absolutely massive and difficult area it would be to cover on foot. It would've taken quite some time & manpower to search it inch by inch in the dark - & even then they could've missed them, depending on whether there were any efforts to conceal.

Short version : there's nothing strange or surprising in the fact that they weren't located the first night & it definitely isn't an indication that they weren't there all along since monday afternoon.


HOWEVER *IF* it emerges RL's property was searched the first night ... I wouldn't discount the possibility of the killer insinuating himself into the search & lying to others that the crime scene area was clear to delay the discovery of the murders.


(also, please excuse my TL/DR posts - I have a serious tendency to talk too much if I post late at night & this thread doesn't open until after 10.30pm if you're in east coast Australia - after midnight if you're in the west :blush: )
 
Yes I understand that but it wouldn't have hurt to at least see if they could have found a scent JMO. As I seen a video that search dogs were brought in on the 14th, I think they were on RL's property. Will try and find the news report again. Found the news clip at 1:06-1:07 mark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_WNHtqEUBo
That video was not from the 14th. It was from the 15th. As for the search dogs that were being brought in on the 14th the scanner thread has some info. Near the botom of the post below.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...lliams-Scanner-Thread&p=13336244#post13336244
 
New from our local station RTV6- "Indiana Computer Crimes Against Children Taskforce assisting in Delphi murders investigation"

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wSKDQTfJtks

Starts just before the 2 minute mark...

Excellent find and thanks for this!

This interview was about extracting video off a cell phone in regards to this case.

I have been saying that the video was stored on the cell phone (meaning LE has it), not on a cloud or taken through Snapchat, because if the video was on a any kind of cloud then everyone would have known right away that the girls were in danger.

The video was discovered when they found the phone. imo
 
I think you mean "the request to seal the autopsy" . None of us have seen the "sealed autopsy" except LE so we do not know the time or date of death. Is that what you meant or have you actually seen the autopsy report? Could you clarify for me please?
yes, you have it right "the request to seal the autopsy" showed them both killed on the 13th, removing any speculation that they have different days of death.
 
Regarding Snapchat, according to my teens because I wouldn't have any idea, if you take pictures using your phone camera you can also load them and send through the Snapchat app. It doesn't matter when those pictures were taken. The time stamp is from when they were loaded and then sent.

I bring this up because my daughter pointed out that the picture of Abby could have been taken earlier on the phone camera and sent at 2:07. We might be assuming that the timestamp on the SC photo places them on the bridge at that time but that might not be so.

Theoretically they may have crossed the bridge earlier than assumed (ex. 1:30) and hiked around the south side, sat somewhere and loaded the picture to Snapchat. They might have been getting ready to cross back over the bridge (back to the main entrance) when they encountered and filmed BG.

jmo and FFIW :fence:
Ugh. Well that is now another thing that hinders building a comprehensive time line.
 
You do not think he is a risk taker? Can you elaborate please? I am truly interested in anyone's thoughts. Thanks

-Nin

Sure. Not a risk taker if this was planned. And if we take a theory a step further, he knew how much time he had. IMO he knows the layout of the area.

He knows that bridge. He walked on the outermost portion of the bridge. I posted a link waaay back about how others walk that bridge. Carefully and down the middle.

He knows of the properties that surround the bridge. If as RL descries the CS location is correct, he had total control in getting them to that point. He knew how to hike to that spot. He's done it before. Maybe as a kid.

And I firmly believe BG is not RL. But I do think it is someone who either is or used to be local.

If this was an abduction from a busy downtown park I would say yes, he likes the thrill of the risk.

The audio was in control. Not out of breath.

Not happy with any theory quite honestly because they angels lost their lives.

Edit to add: He's not as smart as he thinks because he left clues behind. He messed up that day. IMO
 
This is why I posted RL's comment a couple of pages back. Maybe some feel all the searchers had to do was walk around a bit and they would have been found--I don't know. After watching videos of the area, I can't imagine walking through the land and the downed tree limbs and hope to be constructive with a search. MOO

"For them to get from there to all the way here with that rough territory they had to walk, you couldn’t carry them in a million years or drag them or drop them off,” said Logan. “They had to walk.”

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/l...rls-were-found

Definitely. And from your link as well --
"Logan said that with the steep embankments and rough terrain on the back end of his property, it would be difficult to even make it to the location, let alone carry two bodies down and drop them off."

Steep embankments definitely are not visible on either google or area maps. They can be extremely deceptive, making everything appear absolutely flat.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
How does anyone know, including LE, they were last seen at the high bridge? Was there a witness who actually saw them on the bridge?

It's plausible they were on the trails or even headed home on foot at their last known moments.
LE likely knows from the audio and video we are not privy to.
 
New from our local station RTV6- "Indiana Computer Crimes Against Children Taskforce assisting in Delphi murders investigation"

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wSKDQTfJtks

Starts just before the 2 minute mark...

Thank you very much for posting this!! Also, check out the video right after, Abby's mom being interviewed:

[video=youtube;3Ga0WxWn0NA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ga0WxWn0NA[/video]
 
You may know an answer for this--the estimated time to deliver a dog specifically trained to a location. It isn't as easy as Pizza. Variables depend on other cases, the last use of the dogs, how far away, etc. I do see the quick recovery with that advantage. I can only guess people were posted at specific points after midnight and to 5 a.m..in case they appeared, like at an all-night gas station, trail heads, center square...

I remember seeing posts the first night & next morning that volunteers were being kept away from certain areas because they didn't want them messed up when the dogs arrived - so they were definitely requested relatively quickly.

Unfortunately there was also an active Amber Alert in Gary that first night.

http://wane.com/2017/02/13/amber-alert-gary-police-search-for-abducted-child/

In that case the information released initially was that the girl had been abducted & was in "extreme danger" after her mother had been found murdered. Her case would've taken precedence over late teenage hikers at that time & it's probably why Delphi had to wait til Tuesday morning for the dogs to be available.

In hindsight Delphi should've had the dogs before Gary.
 
Excellent find and thanks for this!

This interview was about extracting video off a cell phone in regards to this case.

I have been saying that the video was stored on the cell phone (meaning LE has it), not on a cloud or taken through Snapchat, because if the video was on a any kind of cloud then everyone would have known right away that the girls were in danger.

The video was discovered when they found the phone. imo

Yes, they do have the phone then! I am completely floored. How can it be, that the killer did not notice the phone?? There is something very unsettling about it, besides the fact the girls were murdered of course.

All IMO

-Nin

n
 
Yes, they do have the phone then! I am completely floored. How can it be, that the killer did not notice the phone?? There is something very unsettling about it, besides the fact the girls were murdered of course.

All IMO

-Nin

n

He knows what is on the phone and wanted it to be found (?) JMO
 
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