IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #59

[Peace777]

"INDIANAPOLIS – A bill that would require all felony arrestees to submit a DNA sample is headed to the governor’s desk for his final decision.

Senate Bill 322 requires the sample to be taken by a cheek swab along with fingerprints, photographs during the arrest. The DNA will go to through a database, once the authorities have probable cause.

Sen. Brandt Hershman, R-Buck Creek, represents the people of Delphi, Indiana, and he said this type of technology could find the murderer of the two young girls from his district."
http://thestatehousefile.com/bill-requiring-dna-collection-felony-arrest-final-step/31109/

BBM

Subsequent news stories say Indiana Gov. Eric Holcomb signed the bill and it goes into effect July 1, 2017.

I went to an Indiana lawyer's website to look up what falls into felony classes, there are 6 levels FWIW http://www.calljr.com/lawyer-attorney-c300101

 

[MistyWaters]

I was lurking until I saw this post, but I've been following this case since day one. At the very beginning of this case, I remember hearing a msm report that said the bodies were found at the foot of "two" embankments. I remember thinking, "Were they found in two separate areas near each other or were there two hills and they both were at the bottom, together?" I still have that picture in my mind, because it was early on that I heard the two embankments. Then, the LE reported knowing it was a homicide because of the "way the bodies were found." So, I just assumed they were found near each other but in separate areas. I am not good at finding old msm reports, etc. But, I do have a pretty good memory. I DO feel like this could be a serial killer and that these two cases might be related. JMO.

The location where the bodies were found has been described as "secluded" at least a couple times, so it may well be bordered by an embankment on both sides.

 

[ClementineK]

For some reason I have come to think they were found hanging.
I STILL strongly recall LE indicating that initially they did not know if what they were looking at was a crime scene. (Wish I cld find that early quote!) IF by hanging (sorry, it's horrible, I know) that could explain how they were missed on first search if searchers were scouring the GROUND, and, it may have appeared a possible dual suicide. JMO but I have had this stuck in my mind for a while. It appears he had rope possibly stuffed in his jacket front and finging them that way would be a shock to LE for sure. Thoughts??

Yes that would explain the rope stuffed in his jacket even more. (IMO I think it's a rope too). The only other thing that I've considered it could be was a white plastic bag. But to me he unfortunately strikes me as being smart.. If I were going to commit a planned serious crime I wouldn't carry a plastic bag around with me. Even if he wasn't concerned about fingerprints on it, I would imagine he wouldn't want to lose the things he brought with him, and plastic bags tear and break and things fall out.

All just IMO

 

[Krwiley60]

Speculating on "the way the bodies were found" offers far too many options. I don't read other blogs. I read SMS,. obits, birth announcements, marriage certificates and divorce records, county records, SM accounts, study genealogy, etc. The leaves were undisturbed in the area marked by crime scene yellow tape on RLs property. The image has been posted numerous times.

Way = a method, style, or manner, or method of doing something:

My interpretation is that the bodies were found to be murdered in a certain style, in a particular manner by a disturbing method.

Blue lips are not a sign of death. Blue lips can be caused by disease. Cyanosis can be caused from low oxygen levels.
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/cyanosis/Pages/Introduction.aspx

My opinion about LE's comment is they were talking about the obvious injuries suffered, not position.


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[mtnlites]

My heart truly hurts for you...I am so so sorry for your loss. Although, it will never completely be the same again, I'm glad that you are finding some measure of solace and strength as you go on. (((hugs)))

Thankfully, Delphi seems like such a close knit community. They seem to have really rallied around in their love and support of the families of these precious girls. What a blessing to have a community like that when you need them the most...


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I live in a tiny, tiny town. About the size of Delphi and probably even a little smaller. I DO think living in these kinds of places after a tragedy is helpful. Everyone reached out, even restaurant staff. Police, paramedics, the coroner, etc. still stop us on the street and ask how we're doing. I think living in such a small community helped.

 

[mtnlites]

Re: DNA

I tend to think they haven't gotten a match yet. However, would they have tested the families, too, for a match? I am not implying that the family is responsible or anything, I just know that they like to start inwards and fan outwards in these cases so I was wondering if they would have also taken some swabs from at least the male members of the family. (FWIW, I do not think the family of either girl was involved. I am simply wondering how extensive the DNA matching would go.)

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

"INDIANAPOLIS – A bill that would require all felony arrestees to submit a DNA sample is headed to the governor’s desk for his final decision.Senate Bill 322 requires the sample to be taken by a cheek swab along with fingerprints, photographs during the arrest. The DNA will go to through a database, once the authorities have probable cause.Sen. Brandt Hershman, R-Buck Creek, represents the people of Delphi, Indiana, and he said this type of technology could find the murderer of the two young girls from his district."http://thestatehousefile.com/bill-requiring-dna-collection-felony-arrest-final-step/31109/BBMSubsequent news stories say Indiana Gov. Eric Holcomb signed the bill and it goes into effect July 1, 2017.

JMO...For me, this confirms the fact they DO have the suspect's DNA but can't match it to anyone already in the system. That could be a good break in the case. JMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

JMO...For me, this confirms the fact they DO have the suspect's DNA but can't match it to anyone already in the system. That would be a good start to catching him. JMO.

I think so too.

Maybe someone can clarify but in the US I don't believe DNA samples can be obtained without definite cause.

If so, just a hypothetical.... LE may have a lead that hasn't been furthered at this time because of refusal of the swab. Now they're awaiting July 1st, meanwhile keeping a watchful eye on the suspect. If so, that'd be terrific, they get a DNA swab upon an arrest for any felony, regardless if it was a different matter.




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[Blue Amethyst]

Lost my post. Does anyone remember a pic with lots of police cars near the crime scene? How did they get across the creek? Did the police get the girls out by going to the cemetery or back across the creek? Is there some kind of road on the north of the creek? I have looked but can't find such a picture. Maybe it was in a dream.

 

[mtnlites]

I think so too.

Maybe someone can clarify but in the US I don't believe DNA samples can be obtained without definite cause.

If so, just a hypothetical.... LE may have a lead that hasn't been furthered at this time because of refusal of the swab. Now they're awaiting July 1st, meanwhile keeping a watchful eye on the suspect. If so, that'd be terrific, they get a DNA swab upon an arrest for any felony, regardless if it was a different matter.




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I know that people can volunteer with a DNA swab but that they basically have to have a warrant to actually "make" someone give a sample. I believe that is part of the 4th Amendment.

 

[Shiressleuth]

(modsnip)

As for the taping of crime scene, that's not always synonymous with the body recovery site. In this case, the scene of the crime appears to have began at a location prior to the words "down the hill" being spoken.

Sorry, now you've lost me.

 

[Confusion]

Having just listened to that recording I think I hear splashing or someone walking in water and you may possibly be right.

I still think it sounds like someone was walking with it in a pants pocket. The recording I posted may not sound exact, but my pants were also a different material than LG's were that day. I was walking on carpet and a tile floor, so it wasn't from water splashing. MOO

 

[Shiressleuth]

Lost my post. Does anyone remember a pic with lots of police cars near the crime scene? How did they get across the creek? Did the police get the girls out by going to the cemetery or back across the creek? Is there some kind of road on the north of the creek? I have looked but can't find such a picture. Maybe it was in a dream.

No I too remember that pic. I think it is the road on the south of the creek - the road that goes under the south end of the bridge and along the creek to the private house drive. I assume LE recovered the girls out up the track to the cemetery.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I think so too.

Maybe someone can clarify but in the US I don't believe DNA samples can be obtained without definite cause.

If so, just a hypothetical.... LE may have a lead that hasn't been furthered at this time because of refusal of the swab. Now they're awaiting July 1st, meanwhile keeping a watchful eye on the suspect. If so, that'd be terrific, they get a DNA swab upon an arrest for any felony, regardless if it was a different matter.




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The suspect would have to commit a crime for LE to get the dna swab though right? What if he doesn't put a foot wrong? Could they arrest and swab on a minor offence like traffic for instance? Could they get the dna surreptitiously and it still be legal?

 

[Shiressleuth]

I was lurking until I saw this post, but I've been following this case since day one. At the very beginning of this case, I remember hearing a msm report that said the bodies were found at the foot of "two" embankments. I remember thinking, "Were they found in two separate areas near each other or were there two hills and they both were at the bottom, together?" I still have that picture in my mind, because it was early on that I heard the two embankments. Then, the LE reported knowing it was a homicide because of the "way the bodies were found." So, I just assumed they were found near each other but in separate areas. I am not good at finding old msm reports, etc. But, I do have a pretty good memory. I DO feel like this could be a serial killer and that these two cases might be related. JMO.

I think that this site down from the cemetery has also been described as a ravine with two steep sides which flattens out towards the creek - a naturally secluded spot by the sounds of it.

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

The suspect would have to commit a crime for LE to get the dna swab though right? What if he doesn't put a foot wrong? Could they arrest and swab on a minor offence like traffic for instance? Could they get the dna surreptitiously and it still be legal?

According to what was posted upstream, the bill requires a felony in order to be swabbed. JMO...I'm not sure a minor traffic offense would qualify, unless there was another law broken at the same time. I.E. probation violation, drug possession, weapons charge, etc that was found during the traffic stop. JMO.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Yes that would explain the rope stuffed in his jacket even more. (IMO I think it's a rope too). The only other thing that I've considered it could be was a white plastic bag. But to me he unfortunately strikes me as being smart.. If I were going to commit a planned serious crime I wouldn't carry a plastic bag around with me. Even if he wasn't concerned about fingerprints on it, I would imagine he wouldn't want to lose the things he brought with him, and plastic bags tear and break and things fall out.

All just IMO

The plastic bag could have been used as a murder weapon to suffocate one or both of the girls. I have only just realised this awful possibility.

 

[Wild Rose]

Thank you. I am much in the same boat as you. I lost my young son tragically a few years ago. It probably colors my outlook on this case because I always find myself feeling an extreme amount of compassion for the families. From my own experience, my real grief didn't settle in until about the six-month mark. Up until that point, I was running on adrenaline and fumes, basically walking around in shock. I hope these families have good support systems that will be there for them in the upcoming months because I found that things just keep getting harder in that first year, not better. (It took me around 3 years before I wasn't consumed by the memory of my child and their death.)

My heart is breaking for you. I hope that you find great solace in your memories. Sometimes I feel that I get signs from loved ones that I miss. I hope that you do to.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Well....just hypothetically speaking, what would be illegal about picking up a cigarette butt or a paper cup that someone leaves behind and testing that? Seems legit to me.

 

[rosesfromangels]

As far fetched as this sounds, you know what I'd like to see? A weekend in Delphi where people go and *volunteer* to give a bucal swap sample, and they get a "I swabbed" sticker to wear on their shirts, just like when you give blood. First, it would raise awareness, and second, it might produce something if their was a familial link....

Wild, I know, but I would love to see this!