IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #63

[mi_hiker]

This article is not directly related to the case but it is one way one or both of the girls could have been lured by BG (and a friend?).

Family and friends all agree they were smart girls but I don't believe falling for something like this article describes means you're not smart. I find the situation the article details absolutely the stuff of nightmares for the fact that it is so terrifyingly simple. A few kinks in the armor is all it takes for them to get in and get a hold on these young kids.

https://williamhenryprince.com/2017/06/23/child-grooming-abduction-a-true-story/

All MOO of course.


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[Confusion]

I missed a lot of conversation in that thread so the 'no gun' opinion really surprises me.

With every part of the BG pics, our opinions were very diverse; except for seeing the gun. Didn't the majority agree there is a gun? And once it was seen, it could not be un-seen.

I wish a reporter would ask LE what the heck they think that white thing is.

I never saw it as a gun either.

 

[mi_hiker]

I never saw it as a gun either.

I always thought it was glare/reflection off a watch face or just an artifact from the video to still to final enhanced and resized image.


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[magnolia7985]

This article is not directly related to the case but it is one way one or both of the girls could have been lured by BG (and a friend?).

Family and friends all agree they were smart girls but I don't believe falling for something like this article describes means you're not smart. I find the situation the article details absolutely the stuff of nightmares for the fact that it is so terrifyingly simple. A few kinks in the armor is all it takes for them to get in and get a hold on these young kids.

https://williamhenryprince.com/2017/06/23/child-grooming-abduction-a-true-story/

All MOO of course.


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I just read this yesterday. I cannot believe how persistent they can be. It is so scary how easy it is to reach children now with all of the technology out there. I don't think that is the case with Abby and Libby. I hope BG is caught soon before he strikes again.

 

[carbuff]

There really aren't a lot of scenarios I could rule out at this point. It doesn't seem drug related, or even crime related, except possibly if they stumbled on something. Early on I thought it might be a mean girl thing, but the adult male suspect makes that unlikely. And I think an alien kidnapping gone wrong is even more unlikely. But really everything from a serial killer to an ex-boyfriend (I have no idea if there is such a person) to a botched robbery or the obvious sex crime still seems to be possible.

I just want to cry.

 

[JazzTune]

This article is not directly related to the case but it is one way one or both of the girls could have been lured by BG (and a friend?).

Family and friends all agree they were smart girls but I don't believe falling for something like this article describes means you're not smart. I find the situation the article details absolutely the stuff of nightmares for the fact that it is so terrifyingly simple. A few kinks in the armor is all it takes for them to get in and get a hold on these young kids.

https://williamhenryprince.com/2017/06/23/child-grooming-abduction-a-true-story/

All MOO of course.


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Thank you so much for providing this, but OH. MY. GOD.

(Should be required reading for all SnapChat users and their parents/guardians.)

 

[Ursamajr]

Thank you so much for providing this, but OH. MY. GOD.

(Should be required reading for all SnapChat users and their parents/guardians.)

This only thing that makes me hesitant about this theory is that you can't just see anyone's snapchat and therefor wouldn't be able to see just anyone's location. People cannot friend or even follow you without you approving them first. No one with the app that I know would friend anyone without knowing who they are first since it is such a personal app.


-SSDGM-

 

[Tinypeeps]

Thank you very much! This is such an excellent post. You addressed so thoroughly the legitimate concerns that have been raised by others.

That's really interesting too about the serial killer in Louisiana. Thank you for bringing that knowledge to this thread. Good information to know...

Yeah, they said in March that after speaking to Iowa investigators that any similarities appeared to be coincidence. That while they werent "closed" to the possibility, it did not appear to be related. Source: multiple news sources reported it after it was stated at a presser in early March. Here is one:



https://www.google.com/amp/www.nyda...onnected-iowa-slayings-cops-article-1.2993393

 

[Sully2319]

I was looking at the animated pics looped together in another thread on here and I am convinced he is wearing a brown hoodie. I immediately thought of a couple options. Either a Carhart or a Browning. Then I saw this post. Here are some possibilities.

 

[carbuff]

Hm. Is that white loop we see under BG's chin part of the antlers on the Browning hoodie?

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[Brighty]

It may be that he simply told them he had a gun while keeping his right or left hand in his pocket and told them to stop & then zip-tied them together and held the zip tie and told them what to do. He could have come up behind one of them with a real knife at her neck and ordered both of them to -- etc., etc. We don't (and will we ever, if there is any more) have all the audio or video, so who knoze?

With regard to the killer of Lyric & Elizabeth, the case is still being investigated, and a new possibility for their murders is mentioned as of July, 2017 -- in the article linked below. I don't know how much info, etc., is shared from state to state; I'm not so sure that they do that as much as they would like. Maybe someone here on WS knows details about such sharing.



https://iowacoldcases.org/case-summaries/lyric-cook-and-elizabeth-collins/


I think he has been arrested, so....

This was very interesting about the person you linked to that has been arrested and is being looked at for other crimes:

"KCCI said court records show Altmayer was working as a traveling automobile damage field inspector.

“It’s very concerning to us when you have an individual like that that has the access that he does through his employment at the time to basically roam the state or roam the Midwest,” Mitch Mortvedt, Head of Field Operations for the Iowa DCI, said of Altmayer."

 

[JazzTune]

This only thing that makes me hesitant about this theory is that you can't just see anyone's snapchat and therefor wouldn't be able to see just anyone's location. People cannot friend or even follow you without you approving them first. No one with the app that I know would friend anyone without knowing who they are first since it is such a personal app.


-SSDGM-

Thanks Ursamajr, for your input. I really appreciate it! I have no personal knowledge of SnapChat at all. The information upon which I'm basing my opinion is from the video that was linked by the poster, BeesInMyBonnet, a couple days ago.

The video is narrated by LE and he demonstrates the app. It shows clearly that anyone who has the app can clearly pinpoint another person's location on the map with no problem at all, unless that person has modified their settings to ghost (invisible) mode, or limited it to select friends only. It was his contention that many of the younger teen users were not modifying their settings.

That's why he made the video and was sounding the alarm. He wanted them (and their parents) to be aware of this very real danger. He demonstrates exactly on the video how to modify those settings.

Libby and Abby were using SnapChat that very day. No one has ever said whether they were in safe mode or not, or if they were even aware of the dangers.

The discussion here has now centered on whether the perp might have been able to find them that way.

I really applaud you for using the app safely. Thanks again for jumping in and sharing your knowledge and thoughts...

 

[Brighty]

Yeah, they said in March that after speaking to Iowa investigators that any similarities appeared to be coincidence. That while they werent "closed" to the possibility, it did not appear to be related. Source: multiple news sources reported it after it was stated at a presser in early March. Here is one:



https://www.google.com/amp/www.nyda...onnected-iowa-slayings-cops-article-1.2993393

About that time in a statement they also stated they were waiting for lab results...and some time after that they stated they were still waiting on lab results. Some of the lab results may have changed their original ideas.

The other thing I noticed is though the headline states this:
[h=1]Murder of two teen girls in Indiana not connected to 2012 slayings of cousins in Iowa: authorities[/h]There is no direct quote of an authority in the article and the summary of the only one named says: Perrine says investigators believe any similarities between that case and the recent killings of 14-year-old Liberty German and 13-year-old Abigail Williams are a coincidence.


I also note the part you did above "That while they weren't closed to the possibility, it did not appear to be related."

They are leaving some wiggle room in their statements, which is understandable. If nothing has connected the two at this point it might change later.

It is my belief they are related, others have other ideas.

 

[DeDee]

Good thought. Or 'P' for Purdue? Were Purdue off on the 13th?

Do you think BG may be a college student who attended the PU?

 

[Brighty]

This only thing that makes me hesitant about this theory is that you can't just see anyone's snapchat and therefor wouldn't be able to see just anyone's location. People cannot friend or even follow you without you approving them first. No one with the app that I know would friend anyone without knowing who they are first since it is such a personal app.


-SSDGM-

Many pre teens and teens and even some adults for that matter are really concerned with having a lot of friends, and will friend people they don't know on social media. Some may not even think about snapchat being a personal app. or what that might mean. I have noticed many young people seem to be willing to share things about themselves that I cannot imagine so not sure their idea of personal is the same as a responsible adult. I have found that some younger people will say they know someone, but if pinned down they only know them online. They think they know them because of friends in common or they are on the same group interest pages.

 

[Piney Woods]

There really aren't a lot of scenarios I could rule out at this point. It doesn't seem drug related, or even crime related, except possibly if they stumbled on something. Early on I thought it might be a mean girl thing, but the adult male suspect makes that unlikely. And I think an alien kidnapping gone wrong is even more unlikely. But really everything from a serial killer to an ex-boyfriend (I have no idea if there is such a person) to a botched robbery or the obvious sex crime still seems to be possible.

There's been some speculation they were lured into this by some variety of social media app but I'm still of the belief they went out there simply as a day out at the park trail. The bad guy was waiting for a female victim and these two girls appeared. Just my intuition from what I've read so far.

 

[Piney Woods]

Many pre teens and teens and even some adults for that matter are really concerned with having a lot of friends, and will friend people they don't know on social media. Some may not even think about snapchat being a personal app. or what that might mean. I have noticed many young people seem to be willing to share things about themselves that I cannot imagine so not sure their idea of personal is the same as a responsible adult. I have found that some younger people will say they know someone, but if pinned down they only know them online. They think they know them because of friends in common or they are on the same group interest pages.

Perhaps I'm just too naive when it comes to how youngsters are handling social media these days but one would think that girls of their age would be savvy enough to understand that meeting someone in person in a remote area is entirely different than clicking like or friend on a keyboard.

I've read plenty of articles about people of all ages doing just that though. That mindset gets somewhat confusing for me as an older adult. Given the information released so far I don't believe the girls were involved with meeting someone through electronic communications. If that were the case LE would have moved in on a suspect immediately.

 

[JazzTune]

Yeah, they said in March that after speaking to Iowa investigators that any similarities appeared to be coincidence. That while they werent "closed" to the possibility, it did not appear to be related. Source: multiple news sources reported it after it was stated at a presser in early March. Here is one:



https://www.google.com/amp/www.nyda...onnected-iowa-slayings-cops-article-1.2993393

Thanks for your comments. I can easily see where you're coming from, and you've correct too. I heard LE make those same statements myself.

I think what it all boils down to is that we are interpreting their statements differently.

I believe LE is far more invested in keeping all their information about any connections to themselves. I don't think they see the need to inform the public of anything that they feel might jeopardize their case.

The case comes first. The public comes second, (or third, or fourth, or whatever...)

As I said in a previous post, I don't think they are intentionally misleading the public, but the public is definitely not their priority. We're not supposed to be.

They will share with us ONLY what they want us to know. I'm fine with them doing that too if it helps catch the perp! I don't want information released that might tip off the perp of any knowledge of connections LE has of the two crimes.

They can say there are no connections forever if that keeps the perp in the dark too. Catching the perp, protecting their investigation is all that matters.

So I read between the lines. Doesn't mean I'm right. Maybe I'm reading something that isn't even there. Very possible!

You, on the other hand, interpret their statements literally. If they said it, they mean it. You might be absolutely correct too!

Please don't think I'm being snarky, or trying to throw any shade at you or anyone who doesn't share my opinion.

Your posts are good and well thought out. I enjoy reading them. On this point though, we will have to agree to disagree.

I never see it though as being on opposite 'sides' and I hope no one else does either.

We're all here for justice for the girls, pulling together, hoping to find any piece of the puzzle that might finally nail this guy!

 

[DeDee]

The prey BG was seeking was an 11 - 14yo female, jmho. Traveling in pairs did not save the girls.

AW/LG ate dinner while using Facetime with each other. They had a sleepover the evening before, and I believe they were using SnapChat during their last 24 hours.

Perhaps the two girls, via SnapChat, thought they were meeting with a guy, near their own age, who made one or both feel wanted, needed, special and beautiful but is was geared for the fraudulent seduction of a child. The two girls agree to meet at High Bridge at 2:30. When they see BG is not the hot teenager portrayed via SnapChat, they video his approach and capture audio, including but not limited to, "Down the Hill".

Otherwise, if the girls sent out a SnapChat when they arrived, the killer would have less than an hour's notice to be ready to pounce on High Bridge.

Yes, Abby and Libby were targets, possibly arranged via SnapChat. Using that app, BG was able to control the ironic date of the meeting, hence, the precise time. This is a new angle for me to consider. Until an arrest, I still feel two or more really, really bad guys were involved.

 

[dove28]

I don't think they were lured to the bring for many reasons, but one of the most simple being that there would be an electronic record of that, and LE would have it. Even if the person on the other end was using an alibi, there would still be a LOT of information that could be gathered from the electronic trail. LE seems to know very little. I think they would know a lot more if BG had had contacts with the girls before hand