IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #64

[JazzTune]

Perps can fake live pictures on KIK . This is a terrible video and shocking!!!! "How to catfish someone on Kik using fake camera and faking live camera" [video=youtube;JJlMzooYZN0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJlMzooYZN0[/video]

Really scary! Illustrates so well the exact dangers we've been discussing. Thank you for finding this and bringing it here!

 

[Jethro4WS]

This is a great post. So why don't we talk about what *would* make a compelling lead. I wish we had someone from LE to offer up some suggestions. I'll give it a go, and you guys take it from here...

(Examples only!)
Using the name "Joe Smith" (J.S.) as an example. Apologies to the Joe Smith's of the world!
*J.S. called in sick for several days after the murder. He said he had the stomach flu. When he came back to work his facial hair had been shaved off and he had a short haircut.
*J.S. is a veteran with a limp, and is an avid sailor. He knows how to tie lots of knots
*J.S. has a collection of flat caps and always wears them. Oddly, he switched to ball caps after the murders occurred.

That sort of thing....what else?

John Doe looks like BG. Is a big Purdue Mens Basketball fan. Travels to Lafayette to see games. (Purdue played Rutgers at home on Feb 14th the day after the girls went missing). Makes a long weekend / mini-vacation when taking these trips to Lafayette.

John Doe looks like BG. Has a relative that lives in Carroll County (or an adjoining county) that is a snow bird. He travels to there to check on their house for them, check on farm animals, be there for deliveries, etc.

John Doe looks like BG. Used to live in or near (within 25-30 miles) of Delphi. Still owns the property including an old home but leases out the farm land and/or outbuildings. He returns to that property from time to time to check on things or as a getaway from the day to day slog where he lives/works now.

John Doe looks like BG. He has a hobby/interest in checking out and exploring abandoned railroad property/bridges/tunnels.

John Doe Looks like BG. He is originally from the area near Delphi. Told friends or relatives that he was going to a reunion and traveled to Delphi.

John Doe looks like BG. He does counseling at a church. He attended the Biblical Counselors Conference in Lafayette held Feb 12 through Feb 17. John Doe did not attend any or at least any afternoon functions/events/panels on the 13th.

The key question is, would anyone tip LE of someone they know just because they happened to look like BG and could have been in the area for an otherwise innocuous reason? I think that is the difficulty LE faces in trying to get that tip that leads to an arrest in this case.

 

[Falling Down]

Several members have posted images and maps in other threads, to provide a mental picture of the general area around the bridge, and where the murders happened.

The images, great videos, etc., I've seen, don't conjure up any idea of the spot where they ended up as "remote". Secluded, maybe, but not remote. The distance from the NE approach to the bridge, to where they ended up (below the cemetery), is maybe 900 feet, as the crow flies. The bridge is 850 feet, and from the SE approach of the bridge to the CS is maybe 600 feet or so. The creek sets in a deep ravine or valley, with steep inclines on both sides.

A small area, really, and there are nearby private properties and the cemetery.

Here's a Google satellite view of the area in question:

https://www.google.com/maps/search/monon+high+bridge/@40.5892483,-86.6433471,829m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

[Falling Down]

John Doe looks like BG. Is a big Purdue Mens Basketball fan. Travels to Lafayette to see games. (Purdue played Rutgers at home on Feb 14th the day after the girls went missing). Makes a long weekend / mini-vacation when taking these trips to Lafayette.

John Doe looks like BG. Has a relative that lives in Carroll County (or an adjoining county) that is a snow bird. He travels to there to check on their house for them, check on farm animals, be there for deliveries, etc.

John Doe looks like BG. Used to live in or near (within 25-30 miles) of Delphi. Still owns the property including an old home but leases out the farm land and/or outbuildings. He returns to that property from time to time to check on things or as a getaway from the day to day slog where he lives/works now.[

John Doe looks like BG. He has a hobby/interest in checking out and exploring abandoned railroad property/bridges/tunnels.

I think we're getting warmer, here, so to speak. I've thought this since early on in the case.

As I've said, bad people have interests, too, and sometimes those interests overlap with their bad deeds.

John Doe Looks like BG. He is originally from the area near Delphi. Told friends or relatives that he was going to a reunion and traveled to Delphi.

John Doe looks like BG. He does counseling at a church. He attended the Biblical Counselors Conference in Lafayette held Feb 11 through Feb 16. John Doe did not attend any or at least any afternoon functions/events/panels on the 13th.

The key question is, would anyone tip LE of someone they know just because they happened to look like BG and could have been in the area for an otherwise innocuous reason? I think that is the difficulty LE faces in trying to get that tip that leads to an arrest in this case.

One fact of this case that's been gnawing at me is a lot of locals didn't know the park/bridge exist just outside of Delphi, which is understandable. I've lived in large cities where secluded spots like this exist, but didn't know about them until someone told me, or I saw something online about them.

BG happened to know where it's located, and was there when the local schools were burning a snow day.

Feb. 13th, 2017, was not a "random" day for BG. There was nothing random about his encounter, and subsequent murder, of two girls on that afternoon. Somehow, he knew that bridge and park exist, and he very well could be not from Carroll Cty, proper. I'm leaning towards fisherman, interested in old railroad properties, and may have been in the area for some reason, albeit within an hour's drive, as Jethro noted.

Where would BG fit in with that hat of his, maybe with a different coat, or a thermal insulated flannel shirt?

 

[Jethro4WS]

I think we're getting warmer, here, so to speak. I've thought this since early on in the case.

As I've said, bad people have interests, too, and sometimes those interests overlap with their bad deeds.



One fact of this case that's been gnawing at me is lot of locals didn't know the park/bridge exist just outside of Delphi, which is understandable. I've lived in large cities where secluded spots like this exist, but didn't know about them until someone told me, or I saw something online about them.

BG happened to know where it's located, and was there when the local schools were burning a snow day.

Feb. 13th, 2017, was not a "random" day for BG. There was nothing random about his encounter, and subsequent murder, of two girls on that afternoon. Somehow, he knew that bridge and park exist, and he very well could be not from Carroll Cty, proper. I'm leaning towards fisherman, interested in old railroad properties, and may have been in the area for some reason, albeit within an hour's drive, as Jethro noted.

Where would BG fit in with that hat of his, maybe with a different coat, or a thermal insulated flannel shirt?

People that are local to some "nifty" things never bother to see them or have seen it once and hadn't bothered to even give it another thought for years or decades.

One thing I find surprising is locals saying they didn't know it existed. Every year, since 2001, there has been a "Day After Christmas Walk" on the Monon High Bridge Trail. It is something that was publicized, e.g. appeared in newspapers as community things to do, etc. I am sure there were fliers around or posters.

 

[Tinypeeps]

I realize I'm putting the board on 'blast' again here, with my opinions and I DO apologize. I don't mean to monopolize the floor.

I do want to add one more point though as to why I feel so strongly about the involvement of the social media angle in this case.



I went back and pulled the following article with the comments made by State Police Sergeant Kim Riley right after their murders.

http://heavy.com/news/2017/02/liber...elphi-trails-picture-identity/comment-page-3/

In this article, he said, and I quote: "Parents should make sure they know where their children are and what their children are doing, and if nothing else, know what's going on in their lives. That's the most important thing I can say at this point in time."

These words were carefully chosen by him. They reflect the knowledge that LE had about the crime at that time. Personally, I can't imagine those particular words being said about a random type of encounter at the park.

The girls were dropped off there by a family member, and were due to be picked up by one as well. They were there to hike and take pictures.

Does that sound like a scenario that LE would feel compelled to warn parents about? To use those specific words of knowing where your children are and what they are doing? Do those words fit?

WE (the public) do not know whether Libby posted her plans on social media for that day. But LE DOES. LE has in their possession every single word, message, text, etc posted or sent by Libby.

Imo, their words reflect THAT type of concern. Their message is telling parents to be aware of what their children are doing ONLINE. On their phones. Not for a hike in the park.

I cannot see that specific choice of words by LE for any other reason.

But, hasn't it already been said that perp couldn't see Libby's social media unless he was in her network?

And were the LE remarks you cite in response to the questions from audience "Are our kids safe? Should we (parents) be taking special precautions?" If so, they sound pretty generic to me?

 

[Stanly]

I wonder if these guys have been approached....

http://www.jconline.com/story/news/local/2014/05/08/homeless-in-greater-lafayette/8853493/

They may have come across the suspect at some point...if he is homeless? Or seen lurking around bridges etc in the area.

MOO

Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk

 

[Shiressleuth]

Good points! You may be right too. Perhaps the words were more of a knee-jerk reaction by LE at that time to this horrible crime.

Sort of a general warning to everyone to watch over their children.

That's a valid interpretation, and I'm not discrediting it at all. That may be what they were meaning.

But in my opinion? No.

I don't believe that was the case here. Though it was soon after the murders, they had the FBI on board with all their skills right away.

I believe they already knew enough about Libby's online and phone communications to choose their words carefully.

I heard Sergeant Riley SAY those words. I watched his facial expressions and noted his body language.

What I saw was not a general warning. I saw his clenched jaw, and the pain in his eyes. I firmly believe his words were specific and well-chosen.

What his words told me was exactly what I have written.

Again, I hope I'm not coming across as putting down your opinion in any way. You have stated yours well.

That's what is so good about this forum. Being able to share and exchange our ideas.

In the final analysis, all we can do is state our reasoning and logic behind them. Other people may see the exact same things in a totally different way.

I'm always open to having my opinions challenged. That helps me think better.

I like to read other people's opinions as well. Yours are always well thought out, including this one. Thanks for your feedback!

If that happened wouldn't it be easier to track down the perp electronically via tower dump info and identifying phones in the area?

 

[Byte]

With it being an out of school day and the girls seemingly being targeted specifically is it unreasonable to presume that the perp is not a catfish but rather a relative of anyone ranging from a schoolmate to a local teacher. Someone who would know of the snow day and would know where the girls would be without being as forward to call them a stalker- seeing as stalkers typically target an individual rather than a pair. This could also open the possible range of suspects beyond current locals as it would just need to be someone who could access a friend/family members social media that had their location.

 

[Tinypeeps]

I think we're getting warmer, here, so to speak. I've thought this since early on in the case.

As I've said, bad people have interests, too, and sometimes those interests overlap with their bad deeds.



One fact of this case that's been gnawing at me is a lot of locals didn't know the park/bridge exist just outside of Delphi, which is understandable. I've lived in large cities where secluded spots like this exist, but didn't know about them until someone told me, or I saw something online about them.

BG happened to know where it's located, and was there when the local schools were burning a snow day.

Feb. 13th, 2017, was not a "random" day for BG. There was nothing random about his encounter, and subsequent murder, of two girls on that afternoon. Somehow, he knew that bridge and park exist, and he very well could be not from Carroll Cty, proper. I'm leaning towards fisherman, interested in old railroad properties, and may have been in the area for some reason, albeit within an hour's drive, as Jethro noted.

Where would BG fit in with that hat of his, maybe with a different coat, or a thermal insulated flannel shirt?

Something about the location bugs me too. (Although I find it extremely hard to believe that most residents in a town of 3,000 people weren't aware of it. I grew up in a town of 30k in the midwest with 2 nearby historic locations and those were pounded into our heads ad nauseum in grade school as were several more distant ones. That's insane.) But yeah, it niggles at my brain a bit. I personally don't feel very convinced that it was a catfishing or sm stalking or that they caught someone making meth, or were buying weed, etc. But there is something odd about the relative remoteness and low population of that area, and the fact that a predator would have little reason to think he would find prey there in February. However, I think that what feels odd to me may simply be disbelief and horror at the astronomical coincidence of their paths crossing. I won't be shocked if it turns out otherwise, but in my heart I feel like he was just trolling around the area by car and happened to see them getting dropped off.

 

[katydid23]

Something about the location bugs me too. (Although I find it extremely hard to believe that most residents in a town of 3,000 people weren't aware of it. I grew up in a town of 30k in the midwest with 2 nearby historic locations and those were pounded into our heads ad nauseum in grade school as were several more distant ones. That's insane.) But yeah, it niggles at my brain a bit. I personally don't feel very convinced that it was a catfishing or sm stalking or that they caught someone making meth, or were buying weed, etc. But there is something odd about the relative remoteness and low population of that area, and the fact that a predator would have little reason to think he would find prey there in February. However, I think that what feels odd to me may simply be disbelief and horror at the astronomical coincidence of their paths crossing. I won't be shocked if it turns out otherwise, but in my heart I feel like he was just trolling around the area by car and happened to see them getting dropped off.

As to the bolded above, I wonder a similar thing.

We know the older sister dropped them off. Do we know if they stopped anyplace right before? Like stopped to get snacks for the hike at a gas station or anything?

It seems possible that someone saw the 3 girls and then followed them, saw the 2 were dropped off....and took advantage of the opportunity...:cry:

 

[margarita25]

(Great thoughts here...interesting to see the different ideas/opinions on random vs nonrandom attack, online vs no-online connection, etc., etc... Could be anything imo but I thiiiiiink I lean towards a random predator (familiar with the area, of course...moo)

(Eta: I would think if there was an electronic connection or personal connection, school connection, etc , that would have been identified by now, but who knows.

 

[margarita25]

Ignore the clothes. For all we know he wears a clown suit for a living. How's that for a scary thought!
Focus on that nose, that bulbous nose. Not everyone has a nose like that, and the eyes are very distinct as well.

(I've also been noticing a lot of people with "bulbous noses"...who knew...)

 

[FrostedGlass]

If you maximize BG's latest pic, you can see just how shadowed the bridge of his nose is. It's almost as dark as the shadowing on either side of it, leading to me believed it's been smashed flat. I've seen pictures of fighters with noses like that.

 

[Sleuthin' n TX]

My own late brother ironed his jeans! He was super fussy about his appearance, what he wore, how he looked. BG doesn't appear to be that concerned about his appearance, just MO.

Yes but in all due respect, I would normally dress in jeans, warm jacket, gloves for a hike...maybe even jeans worn from the day before...this is why, IMO, although his appearance suggests he may not 'be concerned' about how he looks, it's because he was either on the road or just finished a road trip. Hence, a trucker; possibly a transient - but transients typically hitchhike and someone would remember an individual hitching. Remember, this case got national coverage on all the major networks initially.

 

[rosesfromangels]

His clothes and grooming do not say "transient" to me

 

[minazoe]

Seems like his mother might be the one who irons his pants. we ironed jeans in the seventies and eigthies , you can also fold jeans to crease and put them on a hanger, and pulling them from the dryer at the proper time can eliminate wrinkles. Old school folks out in the country still iron everything.

i also think he was cruising for a random victim and possibly thought this was a place to find a female jogger or bicyclist. Perhaps he has seen women there before. Not too sure if this is a dog friendly area but if bringing your dog is a thing there he might have seen vulnerable women there with their dogs before
anything is possible of course, with the internet...they def could have thought a cute boy was going to meet up with them.

once I was in a national park with a girlfriend and a weirdo was lingering near us everywhere we went, until I looked at her and said RUN!
this was in Florida..he was watching us and concealing himself around trees, he tried speaking to us...MY spidey senses told me to run and run fast.

they are out there. and you have to be street smart even in the beauty of nature.

 

[Blsdjs]

With it being an out of school day and the girls seemingly being targeted specifically is it unreasonable to presume that the perp is not a catfish but rather a relative of anyone ranging from a schoolmate to a local teacher. Someone who would know of the snow day and would know where the girls would be without being as forward to call them a stalker- seeing as stalkers typically target an individual rather than a pair. This could also open the possible range of suspects beyond current locals as it would just need to be someone who could access a friend/family members social media that had their location.

This has been something I have had in the back of my mind for a long time. I have also wondered if he could have been using a friend/family members account to watch them via social media. For instance, I can log onto my son's Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat etc and view everything he can. I can check who he's friends with, who is contacting him etc. I do this to protect him. Isn't it a possibility that some other sick twisted human could be doing this same thing on their son/daughter/granddaughter etc accounts for other purposes? This could also make it very hard for LE to track any type of electronic footprints due to the fact that it could just look like another 13-14 year old girl viewing her friends profile or saying "hey lets hang out!".

Just throwing theories out there. All MOO of course.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[Barbie619]

Yes but in all due respect, I would normally dress in jeans, warm jacket, gloves for a hike...maybe even jeans worn from the day before...this is why, IMO, although his appearance suggests he may not 'be concerned' about how he looks, it's because he was either on the road or just finished a road trip. Hence, a trucker; possibly a transient - but transients typically hitchhike and someone would remember an individual hitching. Remember, this case got national coverage on all the major networks initially.

I agree.... My response was in reference to another poster who thought BG's jeans looked like they had been ironed with a crease in them. I simply don't see that in the images. I was pointing out that I know what creased jeans look like and it doesn't match with the image of BG.

 

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