IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #66

[ImnoSherlock]

IMO - while that may be true in many cases the plausibility of a "thrill kill" is high on my radar. The short span of time, the shock value to the community, the fact that 2 victims were murdered, young and easily controlled and the lack of a full abduction to a different area says "thrill kill" to me. IOW Do it, pose it and leave it making a statement of power and control. JMO

See the link to Thrill Kill in this article;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_murder


JMHO YMMV

I thought about this as well.The speed of the events almost says shock and awe.Thrill kill is high on my radar too.I have wondered,as many may have noticed,if the Flora case is related to the Delphi case.If this was the work of a SK,could the 3 months have been his cooling period or was he pissed because the Flora murders did not gain the press coverage he thought it would?

 

[margarita25]

So, in an attempt to try to look at things in a new way, I haven't seen an image yet of the crime scene in this type of bullseye format.

Please see my high tech image creation from Noah Chamberlin's thread (GH move over, haha just kidding!):

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=87539&stc=1

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

I've read confusing statements regarding (potentially recovered) DNA. Is any confirmation that the perpetrator's DNA has been recovered?

This article http://www.crimeonline.com/2017/08/18/detectives-find-delphi-killers-dna-arrest-could-be-close/ quotes SP First Sgt. Jerry Holeman, saying “At every crime scene, you are going to have DNA. We are still working on identifying all of the DNA that we have there.”

I also remembering hearing that they had recovered DNA, but it didn't match any known DNA in CODIS.

 

[Daae]

Just an FYI - the DEBUNK videos are not appropriate to link or discuss. Here's why - those particular videos discuss rumors and misinformation from social media that WS members and staff alike have worked very hard to keep out of this conversation. To allow the videos debunking such rumors and misinformation only serves to introduce those items to a discussion they have never been allowed in.

The videos may be very helpful to some, but our members here have done a good job of sticking to the facts, so I see no need to muddy the waters with introducing these.

Previous videos regarding this case by the youtube account of Gray Hughes are still allowed and are extremely useful in this FACT based discussion.

Thank you!!! I have been waiting for this to be addressed!

 

[Shiressleuth]

Sometime back after Tobe said that RL was not a suspect,but still involved,I had posted a theory on his involvement that said something along those lines.I speculated that perhaps the girls had ran for safety to the first place they knew,RL's place.Not knowing what was recorded on Libby's phone,it would seem possible that if they were fleeing from the murderer,perhaps they were yelling for RL and that may have been what prompted LE to get a search warrant,because they heard his name on the recording.But then again,maybe they got a search warrant just because they were found on his property.

I remember that. And there is logic to that as well as it being easier to run away downhill.

 

[JnRyan]

Hello, all! Long time lurker, first time poster here, so please excuse any formatting or content errors!

I have followed this tragic case since day 1, and I frequently search for updates and new information. Based on everything I've seen and heard, I wanted to share my two cents about some aspects of the case & BG:

* From the start, I have felt BG is a transient or someone with a job that permits or even requires them to travel (e.g., a semi-truck driver). I have a feeling that Delphi is an area somewhat familiar to BG, but that he is not a local. Perhaps he lived there briefly many years ago, or he has passed through a number of times due to work, etc. Videos I have seen on YouTube seem to depict the Monon Trails as being difficult to access/know about unless you really knew where you were going.
* I believe BG has offended before. This was a brazen attack in broad daylight on not one, but two individuals. I do not believe a first-time murderer would attack more than one person, especially during the daytime in an uncontrollable environment (i.e., they weren't in a small, isolated building; anyone could have potentially come across the attack at any time).
* I do NOT believe Abby or Libby was known to BG or vice-versa prior to their encounter on Feb. 13.
* I believe BG had gone out already planning on attacking a victim, but was either: 1. Looking for a victim around 18-30 or 2. Was looking for a victim of any age.
To clarify: Assuming this was a crime of opportunity/he did not know Abby or Libby prior, what were the odds that on a Monday, during the early afternoon, that two junior-high age girls would be there? I feel that he might have expected to come across a young woman who was perhaps off-work at the time and decided to head to the trails (the 18-30 y.o. age range I mentioned), or a woman of any age - but NOT children. I hope LE is looking into similar crimes that have occurred involving victims much older than Abby & Libby.
* I believe BG's motive was (sickeningly and tragically) sexual in nature. I doubt anyone would think a young teenager would have much to offer if they were being robbed (e.g., for substantial cash or credit cards).

So, in summary: I believe BG is a transient or someone who travels for work (e.g., trucker), and is somewhat familiar with Delphi/the trails, but is not a local. I believe he has offended before, but did not know Abby or Libby prior. I believe he went out that day with the intention of targeting/sexually assaulting/killing a victim, but probably not girls who were as young as Abby & Libby.

I apologize if this rambled longer than the average post! God bless to all and I pray we bring these courageous young girls and their loved ones justice.

Not far off from what I considered happened. I agree this guy has committed offenses before, maybe not murder but probably still of a violent nature. He may have not even been arrested before.

 

[pepper 34]

These posts have made me think maybe it was a thwarted SA because the girls ran and fought at some point escaping across the creek to his annoyance where he followed, killed them and left. We have nearly all said what little time for it to have gone down between 2.30 and 3.11 when DG got no response from the phone. Perhaps that's why. It didn't go as he had planned maybe. Botched for whatever reason. JMO.
ETA Past the Creek was safety - RL's property and the road.

Does anybody know... If Libby's phone was still on and recording, would an incoming phone call ring through in spite of her phone being on record function? I suspect not but don't know for sure. It seems if the phone could ring, BG would have heard and found the phone and taken it ... or, the murders might have already been over and BG was no longer in hearing range of the phone? I apologize if this has been discussed before.

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

Does anybody know... If Libby's phone was still on and recording, would an incoming phone call ring through in spite of her phone being on record function? I suspect not but don't know for sure. It seems if the phone could ring, BG would have heard and found the phone and taken it ... or, the murders might have already been over and BG was no longer in hearing range of the phone? I apologize if this has been discussed before.

I'm not 100% certain on this, but I recall hearing that Libby had an iPhone 6. I currently have the same phone model, and I can confirm that no matter what phone function or app I am using, if someone calls me and my phone is not on silent/vibrate mode, an incoming call will ring and "interrupt" whatever I am doing. Note: I don't have or use Snapchat, so IDK if a phone call will interrupt a Snapchat video recording. Perhaps Libby had her phone on silent, or BG took her phone if he heard it ring?

I wonder when, if at any point, attempts to call Libby started going straight to voicemail.

 

[rosesfromangels]

(OT)....For those of you who remember Firefox, I gasped when I saw the icon above. Had that moment until I realized... Miss him.

 

[EmmaRose]

(OT)....For those of you who remember Firefox, I gasped when I saw the icon above. Had that moment until I realized... Miss him.

For sure!!! Wolf scratch!!!

 

[Steleheart]

I'm not 100% certain on this, but I recall hearing that Libby had an iPhone 6. I currently have the same phone model, and I can confirm that no matter what phone function or app I am using, if someone calls me and my phone is not on silent/vibrate mode, an incoming call will ring and "interrupt" whatever I am doing. Note: I don't have or use Snapchat, so IDK if a phone call will interrupt a Snapchat video recording. Perhaps Libby had her phone on silent, or BG took her phone if he heard it ring?

I wonder when, if at any point, attempts to call Libby started going straight to voicemail.

I forgot to say DoABarrelRoll...
:Welcome1: and thank you for joining the discussion!

 

[pepper 34]

I'm not 100% certain on this, but I recall hearing that Libby had an iPhone 6. I currently have the same phone model, and I can confirm that no matter what phone function or app I am using, if someone calls me and my phone is not on silent/vibrate mode, an incoming call will ring and "interrupt" whatever I am doing. Note: I don't have or use Snapchat, so IDK if a phone call will interrupt a Snapchat video recording. Perhaps Libby had her phone on silent, or BG took her phone if he heard it ring?

I wonder when, if at any point, attempts to call Libby started going straight to voicemail.

LE has Libby's phone... they found it in the same general area of where Abby and Libby were found but the sheriff did not specify exactly where. I'm sorry, but I am not sure of the time the phone went to voicemail but that has been discussed here on WS, so somebody will know. Thanks for answering my question.

 

[Steleheart]

I'm not 100% certain on this, but I recall hearing that Libby had an iPhone 6. I currently have the same phone model, and I can confirm that no matter what phone function or app I am using, if someone calls me and my phone is not on silent/vibrate mode, an incoming call will ring and "interrupt" whatever I am doing. Note: I don't have or use Snapchat, so IDK if a phone call will interrupt a Snapchat video recording. Perhaps Libby had her phone on silent, or BG took her phone if he heard it ring?

I wonder when, if at any point, attempts to call Libby started going straight to voicemail.

BBM;
Yes. Around 5:30 when they reported her missing. Before that it had pinged at different towers so I feel they must have been using a 'find my phone ap'. The different towers is often misremembered as "all over town" but what MP actually said was...

"The girls haven’t answered their phones since around the time they went missing.
“Missing, abducted, we don’t know for sure,” said Patty.” The cellphone has been pinging around town – and here there is a cellphone tower – but the ping was last noted around five to six hours ago. And they say the phone is now dead.”

http://wlfi.us/2017/02/14/community-continues-to-search-for-missing-teens-in-carroll-county/

 

[Falling Down]

Except that it looks like the perpetrator and girls could have been seen by someone coming across the bridge late... no leaves on the trees and would also easily have heard any commotion from below.

I think it is still possible BG forced them across the creek.. holding one of them with a gun on them and then once on the other side came up on the bank 100 feet and probably gagged them and tied them up to those trees or did other unspeakable things to at least one of them.

But then, his pants legs would be wet and that would be a red flag to anyone who later saw him.

I'm still befuddled... with them making a run for it versus him forcing them across.

That's my theory, he got control of one of them.

JMO

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

BBM;
Yes. Around 5:30 when they reported her missing. Before that it had pinged at different towers so I feel they must have been using a 'find my phone ap'. The different towers is often misremembered as "all over town" but what MP actually said was...

"The girls haven’t answered their phones since around the time they went missing.
“Missing, abducted, we don’t know for sure,” said Patty.” The cellphone has been pinging around town – and here there is a cellphone tower – but the ping was last noted around five to six hours ago. And they say the phone is now dead.”

http://wlfi.us/2017/02/14/community-continues-to-search-for-missing-teens-in-carroll-county/

Ah, thank you for filling in some more information for me. I don't know how useful it would be to the case, but I wonder why the phone died? Maybe it fell in water? If BG had found it on Libby, it seems odd he wouldn't have taken it or destroyed it. Or maybe there was an attempt to destroy the phone? Hm.

Also, thank you for the warm WS welcome, Steleheart!

 

[pepper 34]

Sometime back after Tobe said that RL was not a suspect,but still involved,I had posted a theory on his involvement that said something along those lines.I speculated that perhaps the girls had ran for safety to the first place they knew,RL's place.Not knowing what was recorded on Libby's phone,it would seem possible that if they were fleeing from the murderer,perhaps they were yelling for RL and that may have been what prompted LE to get a search warrant,because they heard his name on the recording.But then again,maybe they got a search warrant just because they were found on his property.

There's another possible motive for the murders right there. RL is not a suspect but he's in jail. I doubt he would be in jail if there had been no murders that day.
JMO

 

[gliving]

Not too sure about much. Just think that in these kinds of cases that there's usually a sexual component, but maybe not. Would he kill just because of...(?)

Extreme rage? Mad at the world, mad at his circumstances, mad at how he felt the world had it against him, ie. a "rage against the machine".

Like the person who kicks their dog when they are angry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rage_Against_the_Machine#Political_views_and_activism

 

[DeDee]

BBM;
Yes. Around 5:30 when they reported her missing. Before that it had pinged at different towers so I feel they must have been using a 'find my phone ap'. The different towers is often misremembered as "all over town" but what MP actually said was...

"The girls haven’t answered their phones since around the time they went missing.
“Missing, abducted, we don’t know for sure,” said Patty.” The cellphone has been pinging around town – and here there is a cellphone tower – but the ping was last noted around five to six hours ago. And they say the phone is now dead.”

http://wlfi.us/2017/02/14/community-continues-to-search-for-missing-teens-in-carroll-county/

There is only one cellular tower in Delphi.

Ironically, it is located very near RLs home. There is a youtube about the pinging on that tower. GH commented on the video to discover that he was incorrect about there being multiple cellular towers as the others are antenna radio towers. I found the video to be very informative.

 

[Steleheart]

There is only one cellular tower in Delphi.

Ironically, it is located very near RLs home. There is a youtube about the pinging on that tower. GH commented on the video to discover that he was incorrect about there being multiple cellular towers as the others are antenna radio towers. I found the video to be very informative.

The case map shows 4 towers in Delphi and 1 in Camden.
That's what I was going by. If the case map is wrong someone should let skibaboo know?

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...Nf6o9xM&ll=40.5965069,-86.68001529999998&z=12

http://www.cellreception.com/towers/towers.php?city=delphi&state_abr=in

 

[Daae]

While trying to understand sexual assaults, I found a lot of literature which reveal that sexual dysfunction,
anger, and power are components in these assaults. Perhaps BG had varying degrees of these components overwhelming him. He may have been sexually motivated and then became angry and overpowered the girls. He may have found out he was being recorded and threw the phone into the water in a rage. He may have intended to rape them but Libby ruined his plans.
IMHO he came with the means to constrain, assault and murder them...premeditated.