IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #9

[DeDee]

I know this has been said many times, but I'm rather directionally challenged at times and my memory isn't always reliable. Were they found on the north or south side of the bridge. I'm assuming it's north since (I believe) they were found east of it. TIA

Per LE, they were discovered on property on the north side of Deer Creek.

Is the white line the path you're suggesting?

The white dashes on Bob Saccamano's map begin at the South end of Monan High Bridge and follows a trail similar to the creek pattern. The white dashes indicating crossing the water. The white dashes stop where the bodies were possibly found and footprints led volunteers to them on Mr. Logan's privately owned property.
The red line indicates leaving the bridge on it's northern end and arriving at CS. It takes longer that route. Either way is difficult but not impossible.

We are not sure of the exact location along L's property but appx 50' from the creek's edge.

 

[Sydkneerocks]

When listening to the audio recording of the suspect (wearing headphones), I'm clearly hearing "Go down the hill." BUT, it also sounds like there's a whisper right after that says "hurry up." Anyone else hearing this?

 

[sleuther0192837465]

I also think it was someone who knew the area. Someone had stated earlier that it could be someone who lived there years ago or lives nearby, or even in that town. I do believe he had a weapon & I can almost bet he had whatever it was, pointed at one of the girls. This is why neither screamed or called 911. I can hear the authoritive tone in his voice as he says "Down the hill". It is very possible there are 2 suspects. This is all just MOO

 

[Steleheart]

☺️😘

Hi Elliebee!

You've been Missed courtneyb! Where ya been?
:loveyou:

 

[MedicDetective]

I am in my 30's and I am pretty certain it wouldn't matter how commanding your voice was, or if you were a sweet little old man if you had a weapon pointed at me, or made me believe you had one. I'd go down the hill in a heart beat. These poor girls were afraid, but IMHO unbelievably brave.

Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk

 

[mpnola]

Can anyone help me out a little bit? I am trying to do a few topics in the media thread. I am done with the LIBERTY AND ABIGAIL'S VISIT TO MONON HIGH BRIDGE AREA, with the exception of one thing..... I can't seem to find the video that has the police dude saying that they were supposed to be picked up between 3 and 3:30. I think he was sitting at a table. I need the link so I can source that fact. Thanks in advance! AGH! It's driving me nuts.

I found it! Thanks.

 

[Soulmagent]

No. Not very easily at all. And carrying two bodies? I heard you would need to get through it on horseback. The young girls were not killed where they were found as that particular area is described as "pristine" by the property owner.


Last photo posted by Libby was at 2ish. They needed to be back where their ride would meet them by 4. 4:30? Not sure on that. Girls reported missing at 5:30. That gives the killer, what?, from 2 to 5:30 with the girls.

This is where timing is important.

The media report of the witness who stated she was on the bridge at 349 pm. She only saw a man and a couple. Then the media reports that the girls were to be picked up at 330, So It makes me question if the witness is a relative or if the witness did not see the family there looking and it also makes me question if what LE has said about where that photo of BG came from is true. Why this is important is because from 207 until 330 is all the time the suspect really had ,but he could not have known so The witness sees him at 349 , 19 minutes after the pick up time and almost exactly 3 hours until Abby's moms 648 post they had no contact with the girls for 3 hours . Plus there was a media report that the last instagram post was at 258 , which also matches with the no contact timeline. I mean if anyone was paying attention. We could probably fit grampa's pings in this time frame if we were ambitious.

DISCLAIMER:

I know 330 has been reported , I believe it was a family member who told the media but I can find no link to it. So the 330 is IMO !

 

[sleuther0192837465]

I agree MedicDetective. I think he felt power because he had that weapon in his hands & could see how afraid they were. He knew they'd do whatever he told them to. I feel so sorry for those girls & their families. I was hoping they were just lost

 

[Confusion]

The white dashes on Bob Saccamano's map begin at the South end of Monan High Bridge and follows a trail similar to the creek pattern. The white dashes indicating crossing the water. The white dashes stop where the bodies were possibly found and footprints led volunteers to them on Mr. Logan's privately owned property.
The red line indicates leaving the bridge on it's northern end and arriving at CS. It takes longer that route. Either way is difficult but not impossible.

We are not sure of the exact location along L's property but appx 50' from the creek's edge.

Thanks for the reminders. I do think I remember that they said it was south of the cemetery about 50' from the water. I thought it was either 1/4 or 1/2 mile from the bridge, but I'm not at all sure on that.

 

[MedicDetective]

Libby died a hero, and that doesn't happen to many of us. She could have done nothing, but she did more than most. I have no doubt Abby did all she could as well. IMO I believe they complied with him hoping it would appease him. In the end I hope they fought like hell cats and no one has seen him or identified him because he is nursing his wounds.

Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk

 

[mpnola]

This is where timing is important.

The media report of the witness who stated she was on the bridge at 349 pm. She only saw a man and a couple. Then the media reports that the girls were to be picked up at 330, So It makes me question if the witness is a relative or if the witness did not see the family there looking and it also makes me question if what LE has said about where that photo of BG came from is true. Why this is important is because from 207 until 330 is all the time the suspect really had ,but he could not have known so The witness sees him at 349 , 19 minutes after the pick up time and almost exactly 3 hours until Abby's moms 648 post they had no contact with the girls for 3 hours . Plus there was a media report that the last instagram post was at 258 , which also matches with the no contact timeline. I mean if anyone was paying attention. We could probably fit grampa's pings in this time frame if we were ambitious.

DISCLAIMER:

I know 330 has been reported , I believe it was a family member who told the media but I can find no link to it. So the 330 is IMO !

Nice timeline! Did you see where the girl said she saw him at 3:49? Or was that maybe the time she posted a photo, but had seen him earlier?

This is said in the article, which makes me think maybe she was there earlier and just did a photo around 3:49.

A woman who was at the bridge commented on a Facebook post by a family member of one of the girls, saying she had been at the bridge shortly after the girls posted the photo. She said she didn’t notice anything out of the ordinary. “I even walked all the way across the bridge and back. I only (saw) a guy when I first got there and another couple once I got on the bridge,” CME wrote. “I didn’t see the girls at all. I also didn’t take the trail that leads to the right. Only took the trail that lead to the bridge.”

http://heavy.com/news/2017/02/liber...ssing-snapchat-facebook-photos-family-bridge/

 

[Belle123]

I'm just wondering about the funeral -- the notion of a public viewing seemed odd to me.

Was the public viewing possibly an attempt to lure in the killer, maybe see if he'd show up? They held the public viewing before LE released the audio and visual...

 

[Falling Down]

The white dashes on Bob Saccamano's map begin at the South end of Monan High Bridge and follows a trail similar to the creek pattern. The white dashes indicating crossing the water. The white dashes stop where the bodies were possibly found and footprints led volunteers to them on Mr. Logan's privately owned property.
The red line indicates leaving the bridge on it's northern end and arriving at CS. It takes longer that route. Either way is difficult but not impossible.

We are not sure of the exact location along L's property but appx 50' from the creek's edge.

In my mind map, I'm drawing a line straight down, or slightly offset, from the cemetery, on to Mr. Logan's property. Then, I'm drawing another line in my mind, from the base of the bridge, towards the other line. Where the two lines intersect would be 50' to 100' feet of each other.

I might be biased because of my precision machining and process engineering background, for which I apologize. I tend to over-analyze some things. I just figure the perp parked at the cemetery, hid in the woods, watched the bridge, confonted the girls, then marched them to their deaths.

The shortest distance between two points is a straight line.

 

[Belle123]

Is he smart enough to stalk them but too stupid to take their phones with him, though?

 

[sleuther0192837465]

I agree with you 100% MedicDetective & I think you nailed it about the suspect nursing his wounds. I am hoping that if he lives with someone or has to be around anyone, they see scratches or something & they report it. I realize that relatives or spouses may not come forward with info because it means they are turning in their loved one, but hopefully, they can put their connection with him aside & do what's right for Libby, Abby & their families.

 

[Steleheart]

While we're talking location I just wanted to bring this back - Sgt Riley ISP on PRIMETIME:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1702/16/ptab.01.html

<snipped>
"CASAREZ: All right. Now, the tragic thing is that this photograph right here was taken possibly minutes before. You don`t -- I don`t think you
have the timeline of when they were murdered, but their bodies were found. Can you describe for us where their bodies were found because it wasn`t
exactly on the trail, right?
RILEY: No, it was not. It was actually on private property that was in probably about a quarter of a mile from the location where that end of that
bridge is at."

<snipped>
"CASAREZ: Now, the private property where these two beautiful young girls were found, was there a home on that property?
RILEY: There is a home on the property. It is about, I`m going to say, probably about half to three quarters of a mile away from that location,
but it`s more to the north of the location of where the bodies were found."


Bear in mind this interview was before LE revealed the audio and source of the pic of BG

 

[Confusion]

Nice timeline! Did you see where the girl said she saw him at 3:49? Or was that maybe the time she posted a photo, but had seen him earlier?

This is said in the article, which makes me think maybe she was there earlier and just did a photo around 3:49.

A woman who was at the bridge commented on a Facebook post by a family member of one of the girls, saying she had been at the bridge shortly after the girls posted the photo. She said she didn&#8217;t notice anything out of the ordinary. &#8220;I even walked all the way across the bridge and back. I only (saw) a guy when I first got there and another couple once I got on the bridge,&#8221; CME wrote. &#8220;I didn&#8217;t see the girls at all. I also didn&#8217;t take the trail that leads to the right. Only took the trail that lead to the bridge.&#8221;

http://heavy.com/news/2017/02/liber...ssing-snapchat-facebook-photos-family-bridge/

I wonder if the guy she saw when she got there was BG or <modsnip>, and the other one already had the girls somewhere, and the couple she saw was there to pick the girls up. Has it been said yet who was supposed to get them? I've been assuming it was the sister, but have no reason for thinking that.

 

[Hoosier952]

I cannot get over the sudden change of tone from the first few days after they were found to the last two days.

Suddenly, the community isn't responsible for making up their own minds, it's the country needs to be on the lookout for one or possibly two murderers. We need to keep a close eye on our children. We think it's a local to could be a hitchhiker and we're expanding our search. Multiple trips to the trails/cemetery after the initial crime scene investigation. Thousands of billboards all over the US with his picture.

Something tells me it's not just the fact that locals haven't ID'd him. I think they've found something or heard something that leads them to believe there is something more than just a guy or guys that killed two young girls. In all of my travels, I've never seen any of America's Most Wanted on a billboard. In fact, I've never seen a suspect on a billboard in my life.

Why is this different? This certainly isn't the first time a child has been murdered. This certainly isn't the first double homicide involving children. I want to know why it's as big as it is.

 

[Hillbilllycat]

I was wondering if there are stores, gas stations, etc near the area where the bridge is located. Security camera footage would be great if any of those are near by I'm sure those things have been looked into. If I was on my PC I'd do a search and comparison. This is frustrating because the person that did this is out there. What may not seem like much information is so much more than what is available in other cases. This man knows how to blend in. I just feel like he's good at not being noticeable and mobility isn't an issue. Having kids the age of the victims has really made me aware that at any time our children are not safe. Hold your loved ones tight and be vigilante.

 

[perfectingpink]

While we're talking location I just wanted to bring this back - Sgt Riley ISP on PRIMETIME:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1702/16/ptab.01.html

<snipped>
"CASAREZ: All right. Now, the tragic thing is that this photograph right here was taken possibly minutes before. You don`t -- I don`t think you
have the timeline of when they were murdered, but their bodies were found. Can you describe for us where their bodies were found because it wasn`t
exactly on the trail, right?
RILEY: No, it was not. It was actually on private property that was in probably about a quarter of a mile from the location where that end of that
bridge is at."

<snipped>
"CASAREZ: Now, the private property where these two beautiful young girls were found, was there a home on that property?
RILEY: There is a home on the property. It is about, I`m going to say, probably about half to three quarters of a mile away from that location,
but it`s more to the north of the location of where the bodies were found."


Bear in mind this interview was before LE revealed the audio and source of the pic of BG

Thank you for posting this. I somehow missed how far the house was from where the girls were found. They really for isolated.