IN IN - Amiah Robertson, 8 months, Indianapolis, 15 Mar 2019 #3

[FrostedGlass]

Wow, I have some catching up to do! I had no idea there was any movement in this case at all! So glad to see someone is at least being held accountable .

ETA: Got caught up. Still wondering how in the world I missed all this. I've had Delphi on the brain for too long!

Delphi is almost all-encompassing, isn't it? I only found this article while searching for Westerman information.

It helps to know that part is coming to an end.
We may never know what happened to the poor baby.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

@Niner His sentencing hearing is May 10.
The ex-boyfriend of Amber Robertson has accepted a plea deal in the case of missing 8-month-old baby Amiah Robertson. He now faces up to 10 years in prison.

On Thursday, Lyons signed a plea deal where he agreed to plead guilty to one count of neglect of a dependent resulting in serious bodily injury, a Level 3 felony, in exchange for the three lesser felony charges filed against him being dismissed.

Amber Robertson also appeared in court on Thursday. She did not agree to a plea deal, however, and continues to be charged with four felonies related to her daughter’s disappearance.

Ex-boyfriend accepts plea deal in missing baby Amiah case

INDIANAPOLIS — The ex-boyfriend of Amber Robertson has accepted a plea deal in the case of missing 8-month-old baby Amiah Robertson. He now faces up to 10 years in prison. Robert Lyons and Amber Ro…

fox59.com

Such a travesty he only gets ten years. MOO

 

[Niner]

@FrostedGlass - so does Robertson's trial still start on 4/29/24? Or was that cancelled?? Nothing in the court site? TIA!

 

[FrostedGlass]

@FrostedGlass - so does Robertson's trial still start on 4/29/24? Or was that cancelled?? Nothing in the court site? TIA!

It has been continued. The update is long; I'll post it later for you this morning. His has also been updated so I'll have that, too.

 

[Niner]

It has been continued. The update is long; I'll post it later for you this morning. His has also been updated so I'll have that, too.

Okay on posting it later. I have a massage in about an hour - so will see if you have done it by the time I go to bed tonight! Thanks!

 

[girlhasnoname]

So very heartbreaking. Will there be any allocution by this no good as to what really happened to this precious angel?

 

[girlhasnoname]

Wow, I have some catching up to do! I had no idea there was any movement in this case at all! So glad to see someone is at least being held accountable .

ETA: Got caught up. Still wondering how in the world I missed all this. I've had Delphi on the brain for too long!

Yeah, the Delphi Fog Brain is a serious thing. . I'm just happy to see some small justice for this little girl. She deserved so much better than what she got.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

@Niner Here is his update, picking where we left off the last time.
I'm wondering what's up with the cadaver dog evidence.

02/02/2024	Order Denying Motion to Dismiss Judicial Officer: Snyder, James Kevin - M
03/13/2024	Notice Filed Notice of Depositions Filed By: LYONS, ROBERT
03/28/2024	Notice Filed Notice of Deposition Filed By: LYONS, ROBERT
04/01/2024	Motion In Limine Filed Motion in Limine Filed By: LYONS, ROBERT
04/02/2024	Notice Filed Notice_Cadaver Dog Evidence Filed By: State of Indiana
04/11/2024	Hearing Session:04/11/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Kern, Marie Result: Commenced and concluded
04/11/2024	Hearing Journal Entry This matter came before the Court for a Hearing Judicial Officer: Kern, Marie
04/11/2024	Hearing Journal Entry Defendant sworn in Judicial Officer: Kern, Marie
04/11/2024	Advisement of Rights Conducted Judicial Officer: Kern, Marie
04/11/2024	Plea Agreement Filed Plea Agreement Filed By: LYONS, ROBERT
04/11/2024	Hearing Journal Entry Factual basis read, Defendant admits, Court accepts plea & Order PSI & sets sentencing date Judicial Officer: Kern, Marie
04/11/2024	Order for Presentence Investigation Report Order Signed: 04/11/2024
04/11/2024	Judgment Judicial Officer: Kern, Marie 01. 35-46-1-4(a)(1)/F3: Neglect of a Dependent Resulting in Serious Injury but resulting in serious bodi • Plea by Agreement
04/11/2024	Hearing Scheduling Activity Sentencing Hearing scheduled for 05/10/2024 at 9:00 AM.
04/11/2024	Disposition Sent Electronically to Indiana State Police Added By CHRIS Interface (DISP)
04/11/2024	Hearing Scheduling Activity Jury Trial scheduled for 04/29/2024 at 9:00 AM was cancelled. Reason: Other.
04/29/2024	CANCELED Jury Trial Reason: Other
05/10/2024	Sentencing Hearing Session: 05/10/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Kern, Marie

 

[FrostedGlass]

@Niner here is her update. This time, it was the state who called for a continuance.

02/02/2024	Order Denying Motion to Dismiss Judicial Officer: Snyder, James Kevin - M
03/15/2024	Notice Filed Defendant's Notice of Deposition Filed By: Robertson, Amber
04/01/2024	Motion Filed Defendant's Motion for Severance Filed By: Robertson, Amber
04/01/2024	Motion In Limine Filed Defendant's Motion in Limine Filed By: Robertson, Amber
04/01/2024	Motion Filed Defendant's Motion for Additional Time to Conduct Voir Dire Filed By: Robertson, Amber
04/02/2024	Notice Filed Notice_Cadaver Dog Evidence Filed By: State of Indiana
04/05/2024	Notice Filed Notice of Deposition Filed By: Robertson, Amber
04/05/2024	Notice Filed Notice of Deposition Filed By: Robertson, Amber
04/09/2024	Request for Discovery Filed Defendant Motion Specific Discovery Filed By: Robertson, Amber
04/09/2024	Order Granting Motion to Compel Discovery Judicial Officer: Kern, Marie
04/11/2024	Hearing Session: 04/11/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Kern, Marie Result: Commenced and concluded
04/11/2024	Hearing Journal Entry This matter came before the Court for a Hearing Judicial Officer: Kern, Marie
04/11/2024	Hearing Journal Entry Defense Motion to Serverance - MOOT Judicial Officer: Kern, Marie
04/11/2024	Order Granting re: Motion for Additional Time for Voir Dire Judicial Officer: Kern, Marie
04/11/2024	Motion for Continuance Filed Filed By: State of Indiana
04/11/2024	Order Granting Motion for Continuance Over Objection Judicial Officer: Kern, Marie
04/11/2024	Hearing Scheduling Activity Jury Trial scheduled for 06/24/2024 at 9:00 AM.
04/11/2024	Hearing Scheduling Activity Bail Review Hearing scheduled for 05/31/2024 at 9:00 AM.
04/11/2024	Hearing Scheduling Activity Bail Review Hearing scheduled for 04/29/2024 at 1:00 PM.
04/11/2024	Hearing Scheduling Activity Jury Trial scheduled for 04/29/2024 at 9:00 AM was cancelled. Reason: Other.
04/11/2024	Hearing Scheduling Activity Hearing originally scheduled on 05/31/2024 at 9:00 AM was rescheduled to 06/21/2024 at 9:00 AM. Reason: Data Entry Error.
04/29/2024	CANCELED Jury Trial Reason:Other Session: 04/29/2024 9:00 AM, Cancelled
04/29/2024	Bail Review Hearing Session: 04/29/2024 1:00 PM, Judicial Officer: Kern, Marie
06/21/2024	Hearing Session: 05/31/2024 9:00 AM, Rescheduled Session: 06/21/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Kern, Marie Comment: Jury selection
06/24/2024	Jury Trial Session: 06/24/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Kern, Marie

 

[Niner]

Thanks for all the updates @FrostedGlass ! Now to get my notes straight...

 

[Niner]

Monday, April 29th:
*Bail Review Hearing (@ 1pm CT) - IN – Amiah Robertson (8 mos.) (March 9, 2019 last seen @ babysitter’s (Jeanette Browning) on So. Holmes Ave, reported missing 3/16/19 by mother, Amber Robertson, but it was later learned the baby had been missing for one week, not found) - *Amber Robertson (19 @ time of crime/23/now 24), “mother” arrested & indicted (9/9/22) & charged (9/16/22) with 1 count of neglect of a dependent resulting in serious injury but results in bodily injury (F3), 1 count of neglect of a dependent results in bodily harm (F5), 1 count of neglect of a dependent the abandonment or cruel confinement deprived a dependent (F5) & 1 count of neglect of a dependent def. places dependent in situation that endangers the dependent (F5). $200K Bond. Bond reduced (10/7/22) to $60K. Bond reduced (12/29/22) to $40K (10% cash ($4K must be posted). Denied bond from 10% cash to Surety on 7/10/23. If bonded out: probation with home detention & GPS.
Trial was set to begin on 4/29/24 & continued on 6/24/24.
Case & Court info from 3/9/19 to 5/9/23 reference post #839 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ths-indianapolis-15-mar-2019-3.434874/page-42
5/17/23 Update: Motion for trial continuance filed. Defendant's unopposed motion to continue. Order: Granting motion for trial continuance by Judge Shatrese M. Flowers. Trial originally scheduled on 5/22/23 was rescheduled on 8/14/23 @ 9am. 5/18/23; Denial of Media request for cameras in the Court.
6/12/23: Motion filed by defense. Defendant's unopposed motion to vacate no-contact Order. Order Granted re vacate NCO by Judge Terry Miller. Order: Termination No Contact Order. Order dismissed. Pretrial release. 7/5/23: Discovery (Supplemental-Crime scene video) filed by State. 7/7/23: Motion to alter bond type from 10% Cash to Surety filed by defense. 7/10/23: Order-Denying alternate bond. Trial has been rescheduled on 10/30/23.
9/6/23: Motion to Dismiss filed by Robertson. Memorandum/Brief filed re motion to dismiss. Request for production. Defendant 3rd party production, IN State Police Lab for 3rd party production Marion County Crime Lab. 9/8/23: Order issued. 9/8/23: Order Issued by Judge Shatrese M. Flowers.
10/6/23: Motion to seal exhibits filed by State. State's response to defense Motion to Dismiss. Order-granting Motion to seal public records. 10/13/23: Temporary/Limited scope appearance filed. Appearance substitution form (inc. Withdraw) for State. 10/16/23: Order-Granting Motion for Continuance. Jury trial originally scheduled on 10/30/23 was rescheduled on 12/18/23 @ 9am.
10/26/23 Update: Defense Notice of Discovery Compliance. 11/7/23 Update: Robertson: Order Granting Motion to Seal Public Records. Judicial Officer: Davis, Angela Dow. 11/22/23: Hearing Scheduling Activity. Hearing on Motion to Dismiss scheduled for 12/5/23 @ 9am. Order Set for Hearing. re: Motion to Dismiss. Judicial Officer: Snyder, James Kevin. 11/23/23 Update: eNotice Issued to Parties. Hearing Scheduling Activity: Daniel Keith Harrison; Kyle Andrew Cassidy; Ryan Wilson Mears; Raymond Vincent Casanova Order Set for Hearing. Daniel Keith Harrison; Kyle Andrew Cassidy; Ryan Wilson Mears; Raymond Vincent Casanova.
12/5/23 Update: Hearing on Motion to Dismiss. Judicial Officer: Snyder, James Kevin. Result: Commenced & concluded. Hearing Journal Entry: This matter came before the Court for a Motion to Dismiss. Judicial Officer: Snyder, James Kevin. Defense argument - Casanova for Robertson, Judge's question, Defense argument - Benson-Kooy for Lyons, State argument, Defense argument - Casanova, Defense argument - Benson-Kooy. Jury Trial scheduled for 4/29/24 @ 9am. Jury Trial scheduled for 12/18/23 was cancelled. Reason: Other. 12/6/23 Update: eNotice Issued to Parties. Hearing Scheduling Activity ---- 12/5/23: Daniel Keith Harrison; Kyle Andrew Cassidy; Ryan Wilson Mears; Raymond Vincent Casanova Hearing Scheduling Activity. Daniel Keith Harrison; Kyle Andrew Cassidy; Ryan Wilson Mears; Raymond Vincent Casanova. 12/8/23 Update: Notice of Substitution of Counsel. Appearance Substitution Form (inc. Withdraw). Party: State of Indiana. 12/18/23 Update: CANCELLED Jury Trial. Reason: Other.
2/2/24 Docket update: Order-Denying Motion to Dismiss by Judge James Kevin Snyder. 3/15/24: Notice of deposition filed by Robertson. 4/1/24 Docket update: Defendant's Motion for Severance filed by Robertson. Defendant's Motion in Limine filed. Defendant's Motion for additional time to conduct Voir Dire filed. Notice Cadaver Dog Evidence filed by State. 4/5/24: Notice of Deposition filed by Robertson. Notice of Deposition filed by Robertson. 4/9/24: Defendant Motion specific Discovery filed by Robertson. Order Granting Motion to Compel Discovery by Judge Marie Kern.
4/11/24 Update: Hearing held with Judge Marie Kern presiding. Result: Commenced & concluded. Hearing Journal entry. Its matter came before the Court for a hearing. Defense Motion to Serverance - MOOT. Order Granting re: Motion for additional time for Voir Dire by Judge Kern. Motion for Continuance filed by State. Order Granting Motion for continuance over objection. Trial on 4/29/24 has been cancelled. Next bail review hearing on 4/29/24 @ 1pm. Jury election will begin on 6/21/24 @ 9am & trial is set to begin on 6/24/24 @ 9am.
*Robert Lyons (21 @ time of crime/23/now 25) BF of mom –Took a plea deal (4/11/24) where he agreed to plead guilty to one count of neglect of a dependent resulting in serious bodily injury, a Level 3 felony, in exchange for the three lesser felony charges filed against him being dismissed. Sentencing hearing on 5/10/24.

 

[FrostedGlass]

@Niner
It looks like Amber's hearing is still on for today. There have been a couple of recent filings.
His sentencing hearing is still 5/10.

04/18/2024	Notice Filed Notice of Deposition Filed By: Robertson, Amber
04/26/2024	Objection Filed Motion_Bond Review Objection Filed By: State of Indiana
04/29/2024	Bail Review Hearing Session: 04/29/2024 1:00 PM, Judicial Officer: Kern, Marie
06/21/2024	Hearing Session: 06/21/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Kern, Marie Comment: Jury selection
06/24/2024	Jury Trial Session: 06/24/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Kern, Marie

 

[PommyMommy]

APR 29, 2024

Marion County judge maintains bond for woman indicted in baby Amiah's disappearance

A mother indicted in the disappearance of her infant daughter asked for a judge to review her bail the same day her alleged accomplice filed a plea.

www.indystar.com

[...]

... In their motion, prosecutors argued just because her co-defendant, Robert Lyons, entered a plea "does not absolve (Robertson’s) culpability in the case.”

“Altering (Robertson’s) bond would be tantamount to penalizing the State for resolving the codefendant's case since there has in fact been no change in Defendant Robertson's circumstance worthy of a bond alteration,” the prosecutor’s office wrote in their objection.

Robertson’s trial will begin June 24 as planned, more than five years after the baby's disappearance.

Lyons is scheduled to be sentenced May 10.

[...]

 

[Niner]

APR 29, 2024

Marion County judge maintains bond for woman indicted in baby Amiah's disappearance

A mother indicted in the disappearance of her infant daughter asked for a judge to review her bail the same day her alleged accomplice filed a plea.

www.indystar.com

[...]

... In their motion, prosecutors argued just because her co-defendant, Robert Lyons, entered a plea "does not absolve (Robertson’s) culpability in the case.”

“Altering (Robertson’s) bond would be tantamount to penalizing the State for resolving the codefendant's case since there has in fact been no change in Defendant Robertson's circumstance worthy of a bond alteration,” the prosecutor’s office wrote in their objection.

Robertson’s trial will begin June 24 as planned, more than five years after the baby's disappearance.

Lyons is scheduled to be sentenced May 10.

[...]

So - I have 6/21/24 next for start of jury selection. Anything before that? Or is the court site not updated yet? TIA!

I see her bond went from $200K down to $60K on 10/7/22 & then reduced again on 12/29/22 to the $40K - (10% cash ($4K must be posted). Denied bond from 10% cash to Surety on 7/10/23.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

“Altering (Robertson’s) bond would be tantamount to penalizing the State for resolving the codefendant's case since there has in fact been no change in Defendant Robertson's circumstance worthy of a bond alteration,” the prosecutor’s office wrote in their objection.

Robertson’s trial will begin June 24 as planned, more than five years after the baby's disappearance.

Lyons is scheduled to be sentenced May 10

Marion County judge maintains bond for woman indicted in baby Amiah's disappearance

A mother indicted in the disappearance of her infant daughter asked for a judge to review her bail the same day her alleged accomplice filed a plea.

www.indystar.com

 

[PommyMommy]

So - I have 6/21/24 next for start of jury selection. Anything before that? Or is the court site not updated yet? TIA!

I see her bond went from $200K down to $60K on 10/7/22 & then reduced again on 12/29/22 to the $40K - (10% cash ($4K must be posted). Denied bond from 10% cash to Surety on 7/10/23.

State of Indiana v. Amber Robertson
Case Number 49D28-2209-F3-024542

04/29/2024
Order Denying Motion to Vacate Hearing
Bail Review
Order Signed:04/29/2024

04/29/2024
Hearing Journal Entry
Defense calls witness 1 - Sworn in Direct - Cassidy Defense admits exhibit a- no objection State Cross - Major Redirect- Cassidy Court questions
Hearing Date:04/29/2024

04/29/2024
Order Denying
Defense motion to reduce bail
Order Signed:04/29/2024

04/29/2024
Motion Filed
Defendant's Request for Fast and Speedy Deadline
Filed By:Robertson, Amber
File Stamp:04/29/2024

04/30/2024
Automated ENotice Issued to Parties
Order Denying Motion to Vacate Hearing ---- 4/29/2024

04/30/2024
Order Granting Motion for Early Trial
Deadline is July 8, 2024
Order Signed:04/30/2024

04/30/2024
Hearing Scheduling Activity
Early Trial scheduled for 06/24/2024 at 9:00 AM.

06/21/2024
Hearing
Session:05/31/2024 9:00 AM, Rescheduled
Session:06/21/2024 9:00 AM
Comment:Jury selection

06/24/2024
Jury Trial
Session:06/24/2024 9:00 AM

06/24/2024
Early Trial
Session:06/24/2024 9:00 AM

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

 

[Niner]

Thank you @PommyMommy - I shall be back in a few weeks to see if maybe they have another hearing before jury selection on 6/21.

 

[Niner]

Friday, May 10th:
*Sentencing Hearing (@ 9am CT) - IN – Amiah Robertson (8 mos.) (March 9, 2019 last seen @ babysitter’s (Jeanette Browning) on So. Holmes Ave, reported missing 3/16/19 by mother, Amber Robertson, but it was later learned the baby had been missing for one week, not found) - *Robert Lyons (21 @ time of crime/23/now 25), then bf of mom, indicted (9/9/22) & charged (9/16/22) with for 1 count of neglect of a dependent resulting in serious injury but results in bodily injury (F3), 1 count of neglect of a dependent results in bodily harm (F5), 1 count of neglect of a dependent the abandonment or cruel confinement deprived a dependent (F5) & 1 count of neglect of a dependent def. places dependent in situation that endangers the dependent (F5). Arrest warrant out for Lyons. 9/12/22: Lyons is in touch with his attorney & LE hope he surrenders. Surrendered to LE 9/13/22. Bond $200K Surety. Bond reduced (10/7/22) to $150K. If bonded out: probation with home detention & GPS.
Trial was set to begin on 8/14/23 rescheduled on 10/30/23 & continued on 12/18/23 was continued on 4/29/24 was cancelled for Lyons. Lyons took a plea deal & plead guilty to neglect of a dependent resulting in serious bodily injury & will be sentenced on 5/10/24.
Judge Marie Kern presiding.
Case & Court info from 3/9/19 to 5/9/23 reference post #838 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ths-indianapolis-15-mar-2019-3.434874/page-42
5/15/23 Update: Motion for trial continuance filed by defendant. Order: Granting motion for trial continuance. Trial originally scheduled on 5/22/23 was rescheduled on 8/14/23 @ 9am. 5/18/23: Judicial Notice of Media request for cameras in the Court-denied.
7/5/23: Discovery (Supplemental-Crime scene video) filed by State. 8/11/23 Update: Defendant's unopposed Motion to Continue. Jury trial originally scheduled on 8/14/23 was rescheduled to 10/30/23 @ 9am. Reason: by request. Order-granting motion for continuance.
10/13/23: Notice of substitution of Counsel. Appearance substitution Form (inc. Withdraw) filed by State. Motion for continuance joint filed by State. Jury trial originally scheduled on 10/30/23 was rescheduled on 12/18/23 @ 9am. 11/20/23 Update: Motion Filed. Motion to Dismiss counts I, II, III, IV. Filed By: Lyons. 11/21/23 Update: Order Granting Motion for Hearing. Judicial Officer: Snyder, James Kevin. Hearing on Motion to Dismiss scheduled for 12/5/23. 11/22/23 Update: Order Set for Hearing re: Motion to Dismiss. Judicial Officer: Snyder, James Kevin. 11/27/23 Update: Notice of Substitution of Counsel. Appearance Substitution Form (inc. Withdraw). Party: State of Indiana. Temporary/Limited Scope Appearance Filed. Appearance Form, Second Chair. For Party: State of Indiana 11/29/23 Update: State Response to Def. Motion to Dismiss. Filed By: State of Indiana.
12/5/23 Update: Hearing on Motion to Dismiss. Judicial Officer: Snyder, James Kevin. Result: Commenced & concluded. This matter came before the Court for a Motion to Dismiss. Judicial Officer: Snyder, James Kevin. Defense argument - Casanova for Robertson, Judge's question, Defense argument - Benson-Kooy for Lyons, State argument, Defense argument - Casanova, Defense argument - Benson-Kooy. Judicial Officer: Snyder, James Kevin. 12/9/23 Update: Administrative Event/ POR - No Contact Order - Pretrial Release expired Expired by Automated Service (POR-4593)
12/18/23 Update: CANCELED Jury Trial Reason: Other. Trial has been reset on 4/29/24 @ 9am. 2/2/24 Docket update: Order Denying Motion to Dismiss by Judge James Snyder. 3/13/24 Docket update: Notice of depositions filed by Lyons. 3/28/24: Notice of deposition filed by Lyons. 4/1/24 Docket update: Motion in Limine filed by Lyons. 4/2/24: Notice Cadaver dog evidence filed by State.
4/11/24 Update: Hearing with Judge Marie Kern presiding. Commenced & concluded. Defendant sworn in & advisement of rights conducted. Plea agreement filed by Lyons. Factual basis read, defendant admits, Court accepts plea & Orders PSI & sets sentencing hearing date on 5/10/24 @ 9am. Order for Presentence Investigation report Judgment. Plead guilty to 35-46-1-4(a)(1)/F3: Neglect of a Dependent Resulting in Serious Injury but resulting in serious bodily harm, in exchange for the three lesser felony charges filed against him being dismissed. Plea by Agreement. Disposition Sent Electronically to Indiana State Police. Added By CHRIS Interface (DISP). Jury Trial scheduled for 4/29/24 was cancelled. Reason: Other. He now faces up to 10 years in prison.
*Amber Robertson (19 @ time of crime/23/now 24), “mother” – Trial set to begin on 6/21/24 with jury selection & trial begins on 6/24/24.

 

[PommyMommy]

MAY 10, 2024

Indianapolis mother's ex-boyfriend to be sentenced in baby Amiah's 2019 disappearance

Under a plea agreement, Robert Lyons pleaded guilty to one count of felony neglect of a dependent in the assumed death of 8-month-old Amiah Robertson.

www.wthr.com

The ex-boyfriend of 8-month-old Amiah Robertson's mother will learn his sentencing Friday.

[...]

According to the terms of the plea agreement, Lyons' maximum sentence stands at 10 years for neglect of a dependent resulting in serious bodily injury. The judge will still need to decide on the agreement and sentence.

[...]

Robertson is charged with several counts of neglect of a dependent including resulting in serious bodily injury.

Her trial is set for June 24.

 

[aimeea]

[JMO] I remember them talking about RL being last seen at Rockville/Mickley in past pressers--the WTHR article being focused on that detail made me go back to what's at that intersection--it's a gas station and laundromat. Wondering if that was a detail that came out as part of his plea--maybe he was at the laundromat there cleaning clothes that had evidence?