IN IN - Carmen Van Huss, 19, Indianapolis, 22 March 1993 *arrest*

[bessie]

I was in one of those studios around 1990 and there was most definitely a murphy bed.

Okay, then. I can't argue with that. I suppose it wouldn't matter so much if the bathroom door was blocked once you were in bed.

So your questions still remain.

1. Did Carmen's unit have a Murphy bed?

2. If so, was it up or down?

 

[toetag]

Okay, then. I can't argue with that. I suppose it wouldn't matter so much if the bathroom door was blocked once you were in bed.

So your questions still remain.

1. Did Carmen's unit have a Murphy bed?

2. If so, was it up or down?

I don't think a Murphy bed would be positioned to block the bathroom. Who would live in a place where they couldn't' go to the bathroom in the middle of the night without closing a Murphy bed? I don't think anyone would.

 

[bessie]

I don't think a Murphy bed would be positioned to block the bathroom. Who would live in a place where they couldn't' go to the bathroom in the middle of the night without closing a Murphy bed? I don't think anyone would.

With all due and most humble respect, what difference does it make?

 

[Ghostwheel]

My second thought on a suspect goes back to a person getting married, whether suddenly or planned. It would not be out of the ordinary for a man who had a marriage planned to get married and move away the following week. As a possible scenario, someone who planned to get married, decided they should have one last fling and chose Carmen, who did not want to be someone's last fling. Taking a "the assailant just screwed up" approach, he could have gone on with his life as planned. One place I would look, if it were me, is at anyone in the immediate circle or the next circle out of relatives and friends that got married shortly thereafter, and any public records that link domestic violence and or divorce(that might have a domestic violence component) with any of those people.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Okay, then. I can't argue with that. I suppose it wouldn't matter so much if the bathroom door was blocked once you were in bed.

So your questions still remain.

1. Did Carmen's unit have a Murphy bed?

2. If so, was it up or down?

Even with a Murphy bed, the bathroom door would probably not be blocked. Most apartment Murphy beds are not king sized, double being standard, but some queen size. Using the queen size, the bed would only be around 5 1/2 feet wide and 7 feet long (60" x 80"-plus the bed enclosure if it was a basic enclosure). The living area is 15 feet X 14 feet, so there is plenty of room to put a Murphy bed in the corner or on the same wall with the bathroom, and not block anything. (Even a king size mattress is only 6'4" X 6'8"). There room for the bed to come down, and still enough room for a couch.

 

[LittleMissContrary]

A few ideas I had while reading the new posts.
It would be significant in my mind whether the killer used a weapon from the apartment or one he brought with him. Not only does it speak to the premeditation factor, but also to the location the killer was picked up from, and the degree of relationship Carmen had with her killer. The killer would more likely use his own weapon if he was picked up at home. If she had picked him up at his place of employment, he would be less likely to have a weapon.
If Carmen picked him up, does that suggest the killer did not have a license or a car?
The fact that Carmen did not stop by her house on the way home means that whomever accompanied her home was someone that she didn't need to make arrangements to see.
I'm leaning towards an associate from her place of work, past or present. I think the killer also worked in the food industry.
Maybe all the employees from the Pizza Hut, as well as the Waffle Hut should be considered.

 

[LittleMissContrary]

Did Carmen actually have to work the next day?

Did the killer lock the door when he left?

Was the neighbor who reported the noise a man or a woman?

 

[FlyerFan28]

Two things I will quickly comment on.

1. Missy Hennings. Seems awful coincidental in my opinion. Perhaps she knows more than what she is saying. She seems to be the one to make it so that she was found. She was interested in her not being at work and managers felt obligated to share Carmens emergency contact sheet with her why?

2. "Secondary Circle of Friends". Perhaps someone who knew her boyfriend, someone she spent time with and trusted because he was trusted by her man. Someone who had a secret crush on her, that was possibly stalking her, and perfect opportunity to make a move was when his friend was out of town. Maybe even using the boyfriend as an excuse to stop by her place.

Missy had nothing to do with it...she was Carmen's friend. She is the one that I share a plethora of friends with and mentioned the murder in a fb group I'm part of. I've heard rumors of who might've been involved.

 

[LittleMissContrary]

Did Carmen actually have to work the next day?

Did the killer lock the door when he left?

Was the neighbor who reported the noise a man or a woman?

ETA: Why didn't her attacker take off as soon as Carmen yelled loud enough for the neighbors to hear?
Maybe the person knew the building occupants well enough to know that Mr. x is hard of hearing, Mrs. Z is gone on vacation, etc.

I am really curious about the person who reported the noise. What a better way to create an alibi for yourself than to complain to the apt. manager about the noise. Were the exact words "get off of me" heard by more than one tenant? If not, what did the other people in the building who claimed to have heard noise hear? How many other people heard any noise that evening?

 

[oldwindow]

I think the best thing to do is to find how long she scream for. if there a lot of moving going on this show a fight taking place..

As far as how did he get into the apartment I think she invited him there or knew him from the area, he may have brought the food. Then sweet talk a conversation into her apartment, then when he made his move after a few drinks. Maybe he asked to use the rest room since inside the bed room. he made his sexual -endo move,she rejected him inside the bed room, maybe he called for something, that when she screamed, he fought her and raped her, killed her after wards.

I'm think she landed a few blows on him marking him, and this why he stabbed her 50 times. It would be nice to see what areas look like, if this was planned the killer would know the area time restraints.

For example when people come from work in the area. etc. This is how he goes unseen/ But I do think he was seen that night leaving. I think the food is the biggest key, if they can find a receipt. It would break this case wide open.

Know it may sound rude and unprofessional but we need to know how long this thing happened. This rape /murder. how long did they disturb the peace if you will.

 

[toetag]

With all due and most humble respect, what difference does it make?

It mattered to me because the murderer might have used the bathroom to clean up after the murder. It was just my opinion, of no real importance.

However, I did not mean to offend anyone. I sincerely apologize.

 

[toetag]

Even with a Murphy bed, the bathroom door would probably not be blocked. Most apartment Murphy beds are not king sized, double being standard, but some queen size. Using the queen size, the bed would only be around 5 1/2 feet wide and 7 feet long (60" x 80"-plus the bed enclosure if it was a basic enclosure). The living area is 15 feet X 14 feet, so there is plenty of room to put a Murphy bed in the corner or on the same wall with the bathroom, and not block anything. (Even a king size mattress is only 6'4" X 6'8"). There room for the bed to come down, and still enough room for a couch.

This is the point I was making but I offended someone.

 

[bessie]

It mattered to me because the murderer might have used the bathroom to clean up after the murder. It was just my opinion, of no real importance.

However, I did not mean to offend anyone. I sincerely apologize.

Thank you, toetag, but no apology needed. I wasn't offended. I just didn't want us to get too hung up on the Murphy bed situation, and I realize I might have pushed the issue a bit myself. I've been tied up with a few busy cases on the board, so I haven't been able to focus on Carmen for a few days. She is still very much on my mind, though, because I truly believe the answers are within reach. :thumb:

 

[Meryl12]

I agree with the statement above......"I truly believe the answers are within reach".
What we seem to have established so far is that Carmen arrived home with a friend and an evening "with a friend" started.
We seem to agree that maybe a consentual encounter may have started that turned bad.
I think the friend probably did suggest something perverse and bizarre that Carmen objected to, when he tried to force he she screamed "get off of me".
Screaming either makes the perp run or silence the victim. We know by the outcome that he silenced her.
What we need to work further on is where Carmen knew him from.

 

[Ghostwheel]

ETA: Why didn't her attacker take off as soon as Carmen yelled loud enough for the neighbors to hear?
Maybe the person knew the building occupants well enough to know that Mr. x is hard of hearing, Mrs. Z is gone on vacation, etc.

I am really curious about the person who reported the noise. What a better way to create an alibi for yourself than to complain to the apt. manager about the noise. Were the exact words "get off of me" heard by more than one tenant? If not, what did the other people in the building who claimed to have heard noise hear? How many other people heard any noise that evening?

Jumping off your post with a note from my past. When a friend of mine was murdered and people in adjoining condos heard sounds of a struggle and muffled screams, no one did anything. In the real world, unless a neighbor can be absolutely sure an attack is happening, most do nothing. Carmen's attacker may have known this.

 

[toetag]

Thank you, toetag, but no apology needed. I wasn't offended. I just didn't want us to get too hung up on the Murphy bed situation, and I realize I might have pushed the issue a bit myself. I've been tied up with a few busy cases on the board, so I haven't been able to focus on Carmen for a few days. She is still very much on my mind, though, because I truly believe the answers are within reach. :thumb:

Thanks for this.

I think when people, such as myself, think LE did a piss poor job of investigating and they don't release many details, many of us are all focused on the smallest thing.

 

[toetag]

I think LE should release more info and it might strike someone in the public who knows something, and who may not realize they know something.

 

[Ven]

I've seen some comments about the neighbors not helping when they heard screams.

It makes me wonder, were there often complaints about noise coming from this residence? That's the only thing I can guess, perhaps Carmen often had people over and the neighbors had complained about it before, and this was just another episode to them. Otherwise, it was very callous to ignore the screams coming from her apartment.

 

[Ven]

Some other thoughts -- it was a couple of hours between the time Carmen and the man arrived at her apartment, to the time of the murder. I find it hard to believe that this was a prearranged attack; I can't see a soon to be murderer sitting around with a woman for 2 hours or more, then killing her and immediately fleeing the scene. I would be very surprised if this wasn't a spurned advance turned into a rape and murder. What would make the most sense to me is a consensual encounter turned bad. Maybe the killer did something she reacted negatively towards, and he became angry or offended. Maybe she only intended to make out with this person, but he decided to rape her and eventually kill her.

How could someone with such anger issues not have a rap sheet and have their DNA on profile?

There have to be fingerprints left at the scene by the killer, no? What about shoe prints in blood? Anything like that.

Do we know more about Carmen's background? She wasn't raised by her parents, is that right? Was she living any kind of high risk lifestyle? Did the toxicology report suggest drug use? Perhaps her killer was living some kind of high risk lifestyle and didn't live much longer?

 

[Ven]

First thing I notice in this case is that they don't release what type of object was used for the stabbing. That tells me unusual, as in probably not a standard kitchen knife. Unless Carmen collected odd and unusual items (I have a sword collection on my wall, a few battle axes, a morningstar or two, for example), that means the item would have to either have been brought with the assailant, or it was something that everyone might have and no one could tell if it was missing (screwdriver, meat thermometer, letter opener, pencil, scissors, etc).

Since my impression of the words "Get off me" indicate that it was unexpected, and that she expected her words to be honored, I have the impression of someone who was a good acquaintance, at the very least, who came hoping for a romantic interlude (you know what I mean). The scenario I see is perhaps them sitting on the sofa or edge of the bed, the guy makes his move, and she screams "Get off me!". At that point, rebuffed, he puts his hand over her mouth and grabs whatever the item is to stab her. Ergo, he did not have to search for it, so it must have been within reach or on him.

What could have been within reach if she were in a position where she had to yell "Get off me!"? If it were not as sharp as a knife, it might have taken several stabs before she stopped struggling. Then, angry because everything was now "spoiled", he just kept going. (Ever seen a guy who is really angry punch a wall several times, even though his hand is now broken? Not everyone has good anger management skills.)

She yelled "Get off me!" not "Don't hurt me." At that point, she didn't think her life was in danger, and most likely did not see a weapon. What kind of weapon could someone carry that another person would not notice? A pocket knife, a switchblade if the weapon were like that, then I'd say he brought it with him, otherwise he grabbed what was handy. If he grabbed what was handy, he did not intend on killing her, he just screwed up. That, to me, says somebody moving away, disappearing, committing suicide, or even getting married suddenly for no apparent reason right after.

That's my first thought.

I think it's plausible that the suspect got up and headed for the door. Neighbors reported a loud commotion, followed by "get off me". Perhaps Carmen rebuffed the murderer, then he got up and retrieved a weapon. He could have been on his way out the door, and she could have hit him from behind or said something to him for his imprudence, that made him mad, and according to the floor plan, the kitchen was right there at the door, perhaps he became angry and grabbed a knife and attacked her in retaliation.

I really don't think this was a planned attack. Someone who plans an attack would not wait over 2 hours, and if they did because it was some larger experience to them, they would not have left right after the murder. Everything I've seen points me to believe the perpetrator hung out with Carmen consensually. Whether anything else (such as making out) happened consensually or not, who knows, but at some point the murderer was rebuffed and he did not take "no" for an answer.