IN IN - Carmen Van Huss, 19, Indianapolis, 22 March 1993 *arrest*

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I am the Det Sgt mentioned on 48 hours. My hope on Carmen's case is that someone may have a similar crime that they recall. I work one cold case at a time in addition to my other duties. The suspect's dna was uploaded into the national database. There is a chance that whoever came with her earlier in the night may have left but not likely.

I was re reading this thread and I admit I am a little confused by the bolded statement. What did you mean by the last sentence?

They have DNA of the suspect but it's not likely the DNA of the guy who she was (laughing) with in the hallway? Am I reading this right?

So, do they think it was someone else that came later and killed her?

Thank you in advance if you could clear this up for me.
 
I was re reading this thread and I admit I am a little confused by the bolded statement. What did you mean by the last sentence?

They have DNA of the suspect but it's not likely the DNA of the guy who she was (laughing) with in the hallway? Am I reading this right?

So, do they think it was someone else that came later and killed her?

Thank you in advance if you could clear this up for me.
I'm pretty sure it means it is NOT likely that the guy she was with in the hallway left AND some other guy came along and committed the crime.

In other words, most likely, guy in hallway = killer.
 
I'm pretty sure it means it is NOT likely that the guy she was with in the hallway left AND some other guy came along and committed the crime.

In other words, most likely, guy in hallway = killer.

When I originally read it, that's what I thought and when I re read it, I was confused. Then again confusing me is not hard to do! :blushing:
 
Some of the scenarios mentioned are possible but when you think your way through what probably happened, some things make it seem as though it was not the killers first time. He could be friendly enough to gain her confidence, not affection.
When he gets into CVH's apartment she's doomed but doesn't know it, he's getting excited.
When he tries to get off with her she screams, the only thing an excited agitated "killer" would do next is to silence her screams quickly - he must have hit her. Probably he punched her in the head or in the face. He had to shut her up quickly. I think she had to have been sent unconcious by blows to the head and face.
Then, when he shut her up, he still wanted to do what he came for in the first place, he raped her. To do that , remember she had to have been unconcious, he would have taken off his clothes. Sex with CVH is what he came for, so he took his clothes off and raped her. He was enraged.
After the rape, he had a problem, she would call the police and he would be in a lot of trouble. It was after he had got what he wanted, the rape, that he had to think of how he was going to get out of what he had done.
Stabbing her to death was the best way out he could think of, he was probably naked and bare foot, CVH was undoubtedly unconcious, so stabbing her to death would have been messy, and would have taken quite a long time, but she could not fight back. Over 50 stab wounds would be exhausting and very messy.
He had enough time to take a shower and clean himself up, his clothes and shoes need not have been covered in blood, he had plenty of time to think, now the urgency had gone.
I very much doubt that was the first time he had committed this type of crime, and I also think he probably committed some more afterwards. I hope he is in prison, maybe one day we will find out.
 
<respectfully snipped for focus>

So Rich, I keep coming back to this nice tight profile you've put together. Understandably, we're working with limited information, but based on what we do know, this seems like a good starting point. Now what I'd like to do -- if it's possible, and I hope this makes sense -- is to step backward from here. In other words, if this is a snapshot of the person at the time of his encounter with Hope, can we develop another snapshot from earlier in the day? Who was this guy when he woke up that morning?

We've been able to narrow down some anonymous possibilities from what we know about the circumstances and Carmen's lifestyle, such as another tenant or friend of a tenant, a co-worker, a restaurant or hospital employee she encountered that night, etc. Is it feasible to knead those variables into your profile to flesh out a more rounded out picture? Why do that? I dunno, but I was just thinking that if we stick a nose and some ears on this guy, so to speak, it might jog a memory.


Most likely :

White Male,

Age often close to that of the victim

Physically fit, or at least into fitness.

Dress will vary according to the area, but will be "flashy" to reflect his masculine image

His vehicle will be the same way , it could be a tricked out truck, or a sports car, today possibly a street racer,

Often loud and cocky, will brag, and is prone to exaggeration.

Usually Blue collar work though occupations like firefighter, or police cant be ruled out. Most often in a Male dominated, field .

Relationship history will reflect his problems, multiple failed relationships, often a history of divorce.

Will frequent local bars, (especially singles bars) nowadays, will be on dating sites.

Criminal history will often include, assaults, history of physical altercations (possibly with women) domestic charges, though it may include, things, like theft, in some cases, vandalism, drug or alcohol charges, possibly other sexual assaults.

Possibly a triggering event prior to the crime.
 
I want to puke thinking about her screaming and her neighbors ignoring it and then whining about the noise. She was literally dying and no one helped her.
Strange case though. I would say that it has to be someone she knew somewhat. Not a close friend, but friendly. They talked, laugh, ate and drank together, spent time together before the attack. I wonder if it was a guy at her work who she was friendly with or something like that and she thought he was a friend and he wanted more. Someone had to have seen him talk to her though-a friend, family member, coworker, manager, neighbor. I don't think she met this dude the day of or anything. I wonder if they have a list of possibilities and nothing is sticking as far as evidence goes :(
 
Some of the scenarios mentioned are possible but when you think your way through what probably happened, some things make it seem as though it was not the killers first time. He could be friendly enough to gain her confidence, not affection.
When he gets into CVH's apartment she's doomed but doesn't know it, he's getting excited.
When he tries to get off with her she screams, the only thing an excited agitated "killer" would do next is to silence her screams quickly - he must have hit her. Probably he punched her in the head or in the face. He had to shut her up quickly. I think she had to have been sent unconcious by blows to the head and face.
Then, when he shut her up, he still wanted to do what he came for in the first place, he raped her. To do that , remember she had to have been unconcious, he would have taken off his clothes. Sex with CVH is what he came for, so he took his clothes off and raped her. He was enraged.
After the rape, he had a problem, she would call the police and he would be in a lot of trouble. It was after he had got what he wanted, the rape, that he had to think of how he was going to get out of what he had done.
Stabbing her to death was the best way out he could think of, he was probably naked and bare foot, CVH was undoubtedly unconcious, so stabbing her to death would have been messy, and would have taken quite a long time, but she could not fight back. Over 50 stab wounds would be exhausting and very messy.
He had enough time to take a shower and clean himself up, his clothes and shoes need not have been covered in blood, he had plenty of time to think, now the urgency had gone.
I very much doubt that was the first time he had committed this type of crime, and I also think he probably committed some more afterwards. I hope he is in prison, maybe one day we will find out.


Interesting and plausible scenarios.

If true, it would likely mean that this is not this murderer's first murder.
 
Some of the scenarios mentioned are possible but when you think your way through what probably happened, some things make it seem as though it was not the killers first time. He could be friendly enough to gain her confidence, not affection.
When he gets into CVH's apartment she's doomed but doesn't know it, he's getting excited.
When he tries to get off with her she screams, the only thing an excited agitated "killer" would do next is to silence her screams quickly - he must have hit her. Probably he punched her in the head or in the face. He had to shut her up quickly. I think she had to have been sent unconcious by blows to the head and face.
Then, when he shut her up, he still wanted to do what he came for in the first place, he raped her. To do that , remember she had to have been unconcious, he would have taken off his clothes. Sex with CVH is what he came for, so he took his clothes off and raped her. He was enraged.
After the rape, he had a problem, she would call the police and he would be in a lot of trouble. It was after he had got what he wanted, the rape, that he had to think of how he was going to get out of what he had done.
Stabbing her to death was the best way out he could think of, he was probably naked and bare foot, CVH was undoubtedly unconcious, so stabbing her to death would have been messy, and would have taken quite a long time, but she could not fight back. Over 50 stab wounds would be exhausting and very messy.
He had enough time to take a shower and clean himself up, his clothes and shoes need not have been covered in blood, he had plenty of time to think, now the urgency had gone.
I very much doubt that was the first time he had committed this type of crime, and I also think he probably committed some more afterwards. I hope he is in prison, maybe one day we will find out.

I don't think it was his first violent act against a woman, either. First murder? I don't know, but apparently he was inexperienced, because he left behind sufficient biological evidence to develop a DNA profile. I also tend to agree it wasn't his last crime of this type, unless he died within a few years afterward. Even then, I believe he left behind live victims if not dead ones.

Some woman knows this man. She's seen his face, heard his voice, and probably knows his name. Maybe she's not aware that he's a killer, but she knows he's mean and he's dangerous. She might've met him right there in Indianapolis, but never came forward because she was a sex worker, married, too afraid, or simply embarrassed because the encounter started out as consensual. That poor woman needs to know that it's okay, and it's not too late to speak up. He most likely was attractive, maybe drove a cool car and talked a good line. Anyone could've been persuaded by him.

That's what I think happened with Carmen, to be honest. I believe she was attracted to the guy, and after a few beers things took the usual course. Initially, she wasn't resistant. She was probably into it. But at some point during the act, his demeanor changed. He suggested, by his words or actions, something vile. Something so repulsive that Carmen pushed him away and wanted the whole thing to end right then and there. But that only accelerated his anger and excitement, and hence the horrific violence. IMO

When it ended, I would think you're right. He must have made some attempt to clean himself. It wouldn't have taken long. In less than ten minutes, he could have showered, thrown on his clothes, and been out the door. I wonder how much time passed between the yelling and the footsteps in the hallway. I also wonder if after hearing Carmen yell at him, if anyone peeked out a door or window as he was leaving. Did anyone hear or see a car?

Residents of apartment complexes generally are used to noise from other tenants. There's a Gladys Kravitz everywhere, but for the most part people mind their own business. Normally, they don't complain unless a disturbance is persistent, or very loud, or alarming. And if there's a ruckus, followed by the sound of a person leaving, I think it's natural for many of us to try and catch a glimpse to see which party left. Without knowing the layout, and where Carmen's apartment was situated, it's hard to say, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone got a glance at him.

ETA: Adding Detective Carter's contact info -- bbm
Thank you for featuring Carmen's case. My direct number is (317)327-1270 and department email is william.carter@indy.gov if anyone has information.
 
Checked the weather for the night of March 22, 1993. There was light rain and fog, temperature in the high 40's with barely a sliver of moon.

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KIND/1993/3/22/DailyHistory.html


http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA



At this link you can see several views of the apartment complex, interior and exterior. The one bedroom units are compact with a tiny kitchen, living room with sliding glass door, and a separate small bedroom with one window. Sliding glass doors and and bedroom windows face either the pool or the parking lot.

http://tinyurl.com/m4h3vfm

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=e...=X&ei=BHysU4uLONGaqAbJrYDQAg&ved=0CKEBEKIqMAo
 
Checked the weather for the night of March 22, 1993. There was light rain and fog, temperature in the high 40's with barely a sliver of moon.

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KIND/1993/3/22/DailyHistory.html


http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA



At this link you can see several views of the apartment complex, interior and exterior. The one bedroom units are compact with a tiny kitchen, living room with sliding glass door, and a separate small bedroom with one window. Sliding glass doors and and bedroom windows face either the pool or the parking lot.

http://tinyurl.com/m4h3vfm

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=e...=X&ei=BHysU4uLONGaqAbJrYDQAg&ved=0CKEBEKIqMAo

She had a studio and back in the day they had a murphy bed. I wonder if hers had the murphy bed and if it was up or down.
 
Is that floorplan from the year she was murdered?
It's the existing floorplan, and I'm confident it's the original, as well. One doesn't redesign plumbing and sewage in a multi-unit building complex. It would be cheaper to demolish the whole thing and start from scratch.
 
A few pages back, I mentioned that I work with a nurse with the Carmen's last name, and the hospital we work at is just a block or two from the murder site.

Well, my co-worker's husband is Carmen's brother!

I've invited him to join us here. My co-worker was gratified to learn that we were spotlighting this case. She never knew the victim.
 
Two things I will quickly comment on.

1. Missy Hennings. Seems awful coincidental in my opinion. Perhaps she knows more than what she is saying. She seems to be the one to make it so that she was found. She was interested in her not being at work and managers felt obligated to share Carmens emergency contact sheet with her why?

2. "Secondary Circle of Friends". Perhaps someone who knew her boyfriend, someone she spent time with and trusted because he was trusted by her man. Someone who had a secret crush on her, that was possibly stalking her, and perfect opportunity to make a move was when his friend was out of town. Maybe even using the boyfriend as an excuse to stop by her place.
 
A few pages back, I mentioned that I work with a nurse with the Carmen's last name, and the hospital we work at is just a block or two from the murder site.

Well, my co-worker's husband is Carmen's brother!

I've invited him to join us here. My co-worker was gratified to learn that we were spotlighting this case. She never knew the victim.
Hi, meanmaryjean. We'd be very happy to have him join us. Please share this link with him.

Verification Process for Professional or Insider Posters - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Thanks!
 
Two things I will quickly comment on.

1. Missy Hennings. Seems awful coincidental in my opinion. Perhaps she knows more than what she is saying. She seems to be the one to make it so that she was found. She was interested in her not being at work and managers felt obligated to share Carmens emergency contact sheet with her why?

2. "Secondary Circle of Friends". Perhaps someone who knew her boyfriend, someone she spent time with and trusted because he was trusted by her man. Someone who had a secret crush on her, that was possibly stalking her, and perfect opportunity to make a move was when his friend was out of town. Maybe even using the boyfriend as an excuse to stop by her place.
Reminds me of an experience I had with a bf's brother many moons ago. Everyone considered him to be a real sweet guy, but "odd". He stopped by my apartment out of the blue one night looking for my bf, who he knew darn well wouldn't be there because he knew his work schedule, and his car wasn't parked outside. My mother happened to call, and when I mentioned he was there, she had a fit. We hung up, and she called back ten minutes later. She said she wouldn't stop calling until she knew he was gone. I was 20 and foolish, and more worried about hurting his feelings than my own safety. After the second call from my mother, I think he got the hint and left without having to be asked.

Sorry for the OT, but I wanted to illustrate how easily that kind of scenario can occur. I'm not certain my bf's brother had ill intentions, but if he did, I sure would've made it easy for him, albeit unwittingly, but still...
 
It's the existing floorplan, and I'm confident it's the original, as well. One doesn't redesign plumbing and sewage in a multi-unit building complex. It would be cheaper to demolish the whole thing and start from scratch.

I was in one of those studios around 1990 and there was most definitely a murphy bed.
 
First thing I notice in this case is that they don't release what type of object was used for the stabbing. That tells me unusual, as in probably not a standard kitchen knife. Unless Carmen collected odd and unusual items (I have a sword collection on my wall, a few battle axes, a morningstar or two, for example), that means the item would have to either have been brought with the assailant, or it was something that everyone might have and no one could tell if it was missing (screwdriver, meat thermometer, letter opener, pencil, scissors, etc).

Since my impression of the words "Get off me" indicate that it was unexpected, and that she expected her words to be honored, I have the impression of someone who was a good acquaintance, at the very least, who came hoping for a romantic interlude (you know what I mean). The scenario I see is perhaps them sitting on the sofa or edge of the bed, the guy makes his move, and she screams "Get off me!". At that point, rebuffed, he puts his hand over her mouth and grabs whatever the item is to stab her. Ergo, he did not have to search for it, so it must have been within reach or on him.

What could have been within reach if she were in a position where she had to yell "Get off me!"? If it were not as sharp as a knife, it might have taken several stabs before she stopped struggling. Then, angry because everything was now "spoiled", he just kept going. (Ever seen a guy who is really angry punch a wall several times, even though his hand is now broken? Not everyone has good anger management skills.)

She yelled "Get off me!" not "Don't hurt me." At that point, she didn't think her life was in danger, and most likely did not see a weapon. What kind of weapon could someone carry that another person would not notice? A pocket knife, a switchblade if the weapon were like that, then I'd say he brought it with him, otherwise he grabbed what was handy. If he grabbed what was handy, he did not intend on killing her, he just screwed up. That, to me, says somebody moving away, disappearing, committing suicide, or even getting married suddenly for no apparent reason right after.

That's my first thought.
 

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