PA - infant Leon Katz murdered, twin injured, allegedly by babysitter, Pittsburgh- June 24, 2024

[Tortoise]

Little AK also had scratches on both his cheeks, and his nose. I think they are unlikely to be self-inflicted by a ragged baby nail or nails, because that would mean inflicted by both hands and their hand movements are uncoordinated at that age. Even if his arms were flailing, that would mean both hands were on his face. I also don't see how it is possible for such a young baby to be resistant while being put in his car seat, to flail his arms, or have them up near his face, the manoeuvre involving shoulders and upper arms being positioned with adult hands to keep his arms down while the straps are slipped over his shoulders. And even if it was in the process of setting him in the car seat, she would be holding him underneath each armpit, preventing arms flailing near his face, IMO.

Quote from L&C video linked above;

"She also stated that Doe sustained a scratch to his face while she was placing him in the car seat and he flailed his arms."

 

[Tortoise]

The bruises are even harder to explain. It sounds like there could have been some pinching going on, to me. IMO

 

[nhmemorymaker]

My mom was changing my diaper when I was an infant and i rolled off the bed. I’m clearly (maybe up for debate lol) ok. Heard that story my whole life that I always kept a hand on both my daughters while changing them.

Your post does spark memories for many of us. Some of these tragedies of the moments (that turned out just fine) were memories of the "suspect and the victim" of our childhoods.
Supposedly, I almost died of pneumonia when three months old, so was forever cognizant and urgent of lung related effects on my littles.

 

[abyquinn]

Found it, @Tortoise despite my eyes really bothering me tonight and that print is so small. It was a statement made about LK's injuries not AK's. The paragraph is describing AK's injuries, then it's just the last sentence that switches to LK's. Sorry for my error. Can't correct my post #772 now, but please note the injuries described as acute were for LK.​

View attachment 528921

Usually in medicine acute means new vs multiple incidents which would be called chronic or other ways of saying long term abuse having many stages of healing. IMO he was saying Ari’s injuries were new and happened around the same time.

 

[Curious Me]

RSBM 'Acute' as a medical term just means immediate, recent, rather than 'chronic' which means long term. MOO

I understand now that the word acute used medically has to do with recent conditions versus a chronic condition. Thanks for pointing that out. I still connect it with connotations of a sharp, extreme, sudden appearance and don't know if that's always the case now.​

Usually in medicine acute means new vs multiple incidents which would be called chronic or other ways of saying long term abuse having many stages of healing.

Yes, thanks, I now realize medically it can mean recent, and not be including severity.

IMO he was saying Ari’s injuries were new and happened around the same time.

The thing is the doctor's statement was not about AK injuries after all, but LK's injuries. All LK's injuries were acute.

From the Probably Cause Affidavit taken from the Law & Crime video.
​

 

[abyquinn]

I understand now that the word acute used medically has to do with recent conditions versus a chronic condition. Thanks for pointing that out. I still connect it with connotations of a sharp, extreme, sudden appearance and don't know if that's always the case now.​

Yes, thanks, I now realize medically it can mean recent, and not be including severity.

The thing is the doctor's statement was not about AK injuries after all, but LK's injuries. All LK's injuries were acute.

From the Probably Cause Affidavit taken from the Law & Crime video.
View attachment 529002​

I’m glad you caught that. I missed it, I thought he was still speaking about Ari (John Doe). This case is certainly curious. Every time I think I understand, along comes more confusion!

 

[Curious Me]

How would jurors see just AK's injuries if it were a trial for just the one infant's genital injuries with facial scratches? Could jurors be provided with enough evidence to prove NV must've done it intentionally? Medical experts from both sides testifying-- Would the injuries seem serious enough to convict her?

Her attorney may fight to separate the incidences that happened to each twin. Prosecution is betting on presenting them together. It's just that if it were just one incident with AK's injuries it seems the timeline creates reasonable doubt that NV was the one who purposely abused him. The actual injuries may be able to be explained away with some non-abuse reasoning. Obviously, the two incidences presented together will cast much more suspicion on NV, but her defense attorney is going to have to work towards the incidences being viewed separately, and LK's fatal fall as unfortunate, a negligence, but not intentional. The head injuries will take days perhaps.

All MOO

​

 

[SMK777]

How would jurors see just AK's injuries if it were a trial for just the one infant's genital injuries with facial scratches? Could jurors be provided with enough evidence to prove NV must've done it intentionally? Medical experts from both sides testifying-- Would the injuries seem serious enough to convict her?

Her attorney may fight to separate the incidences that happened to each twin. Prosecution is betting on presenting them together. It's just that if it were just one incident with AK's injuries it seems the timeline creates reasonable doubt that NV was the one who purposely abused him. The actual injuries may be able to be explained away with some non-abuse reasoning. Obviously, the two incidences presented together will cast much more suspicion on NV, but her defense attorney is going to have to work towards the incidences being viewed separately, and LK's fatal fall as unfortunate, a negligence, but not intentional.

​

I have always felt that if only the first incident had happened, and Leon had slept through the night, there likely would not have been any criminal case at all. It was the second incident that made the first seem criminal, and wound up casting NV in the role of a sociopathic abuser ( which she may or may not be).

Her attorneys separating the 2 incidents would weaken the prosecution’s case. And yet would a jury be aware of both incidents? The 2 together seemed to have sealed her fate. It’s bizarre, even to those of us keeping an open mind….imagine a friend calling and telling you, I was babysitting twin boys age 6.5 weeks. I noticed swelling and redness in the diaper area on one, notified the parents, and now I am accused! You would be reassuring her, until she blurted out, and then while they were at the ER, I was watching the other twin and he fell out of his bouncer and died!

 

[Tortoise]

I have always felt that if only the first incident had happened, and Leon had slept through the night, there likely would not have been any criminal case at all. It was the second incident that made the first seem criminal, and wound up casting NV in the role of a sociopathic abuser ( which she may or may not be).

Her attorneys separating the 2 incidents would weaken the prosecution’s case. And yet would a jury be aware of both incidents? The 2 together seemed to have sealed her fate. It’s bizarre, even to those of us keeping an open mind….imagine a friend calling and telling you, I was babysitting twin boys age 6.5 weeks. I noticed swelling and redness in the diaper area on one, notified the parents, and now I am accused! You would be reassuring her, until she blurted out, and then while they were at the ER, I was watching the other twin and he fell out of his bouncer and died!

I don't know. The fact they were still at the hospital after five hours gives me pause. I don't think doctors just thought AK's injuries were nothing concerning. Any unexplained bruises on a baby would raise suspicions for a start, IMO.

 

[SMK777]

I don't know. The fact they were still at the hospital after five hours gives me pause. I don't think doctors just thought AK's injuries were nothing concerning. Any unexplained bruises on a baby would raise suspicions for a start, IMO.

Well, I get confused about the timeline because they knew she was watching the other twin. During those hours of suspecting her, would medical staff and the parents be ok with that?

But you may be correct; there may have been initial suspicion prior to Leon’s incident.

Whichever is the case, Leon’s fatal injury made everything 1,000 x worse. For the parents, and regarding criminal charges. It’s very bizarre that things would wind up that severely badly.

 

[SMK777]

DOUBLE POST.

 

[Tortoise]

Well, I get confused about the timeline because they knew she was watching the other twin. During those hours of suspecting her, would medical staff and the parents be ok with that?

But you may be correct; there may have been initial suspicion prior to Leon’s incident.

Whichever is the case, Leon’s fatal injury made everything 1,000 x worse. For the parents, and regarding criminal charges. It’s very bizarre that things would wind up that severely badly.

I doubt they would have got to the stage of suspecting NV, I think they would be viewing all of them with caution, but it's not time to slap on the cuffs at that point, they need to work out what is going on. I think this kind of incident, which is not life-threatening, would involve firstly a triage nurse, then a doctor's examination, perhaps a second opinion, perhaps some x-rays if they suspect abuse - just to make sure no healing fractures - then further discussion with the parents, perhaps following a protocol for suspected abuse, maybe some phone calls to specialist agencies, which might not have been instantly answered at that time of night, etc.. then a call comes through from NV about LK, and the priority becomes LK, and then calls to the police I imagine. JMO

 

[Curious Me]

There could've been a long wait in the emergency room and perhaps AK's injuries were not considered demanding instant attention compared to others waiting with emergencies.

We don't know why they were at the hospital with AK that long. If they were at all suspicious of NV causing AK injuries, then why continue to leave LK in her care? Rush home and get the other twin perhaps?

When did AK's injuries start to be considered abuse then? When did the doctor and parents start to suspect NV? If a doctor was looking at AK's injuries over a five hour period, bringing in the abuse expert dr., and LE then I think suspicions were arrived at by then towards NV.

If, at the hospital their suspicions increased about NV over the five hrs. there, then why leave LK in her care? I'm not placing blame in anyway, but asking to make a point that suspicions about NV didn't seem evident right away. Why didn't one of the parents take a quick trip home to get LK away from suspicious NV?

I can imagine how this probably keeps playing back in the minds of the parents. I know "what ifs" can't be avoided in this type of situation. When you think about it, the five hours at the hospital for AK was part of the 2nd incident occurring. Had the time been shorter, had perhaps the parents & child been released to go home, or had one of the parent's made a fast trip home to get LK, then the events of LK's death might not have happened at all.

What was happening at the home for those five hours? I mean the the first twin's injuries seem to have happened so quickly within a limited timeframe if, in fact, NV was the one causing those injuries.

So, was NV taking good care of little LK for 4-4.5 hrs. then suddenly decided to hurt him? She admitted to falling asleep, but the baby didn't sound settled down sleeping in a safe place. These are the events that need to be gone over with a fine tooth comb.

I do wonder had one of the parents shown up earlier if they would've found NV taking good care of the baby, or found her napping and LK precariously left not secure in his seat, or found something worse? ​

 

[SMK777]

So, was NV taking good care of little LK for 4-4.5 hrs. then suddenly decided to hurt him? She admitted to falling asleep, but the baby didn't sound settled down sleeping in a safe place. These are the events that need to be gone over with a fine tooth comb.

I do wonder had one of the parents shown up earlier if they would've found NV taking good care of the baby, or found her napping and LK precariously left not secure in his seat, or found something worse?

Snipped for focus.
I wonder about these things at well.
If only they’d asked NV to come along with Leon in tow. But of course at the time that made little sense.
If only Leon had slept through until morning.
Unless NV was a sociopath and was intent on hurting him.
I’m so torn between the extremes.