IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #2

[sl222]

Another point - when the window is open, you can still see the handle that opens and closes it and the frame that the handle is on. So even the open windows still have a couple of inches on the side that can't open; it's not all the way open. IF you look.

I will be surprised if they don't go ahead with the lawsuit since they seem determined to do that. But I assume there couldn't be a trial or settlement before the conclusion of the criminal proceedings.

 

[sl222]

I don't remember what page (16 maybe) but the only reference to a person that was on the cruise was someone that saw a comment on a Newsweek article:

"We were there. Royal Caribbean is not to blame for this horrific accident. The whole story has not been told." - Orange Popsicle

I googled it but could not find the actual comment or the Newsweek article.

I remember that comment too.

The original comments on some Elvocero articles were good but you can't see them now because they replaced all comments with a Facebook plugin, and that wiped out the original comments, plus all new comments on articles don't translate. Even though the article does. In the older articles I'm not sure if they had video originally that isn't there either.

If the GF is telling the truth about thinking that there was glass there, he did check the window or the view first. Then picked her up to stand on the railing. Then sat her on the railing. And didn't the attorney say they leaned forward. So no wonder she fell. But I really don't see why the steadfast statements from PR authorities is that there was more to it. I think maybe this is going to get worse before it gets better even though it's already worse.

Edited to add - just to be clear I do think there is more to this whole thing. I just don't know what. But I agree with most people here that the video will show carelessness at best.

 

[sl222]

That whole lounge area is full of beach chairs and tables. It isn't easy to get against a window, is that right? In the photo of the investigators in the area that night, all the lounge chairs are pushed away from the windows for the police to have their work area. There are plenty of them.

 

[neesaki]

I personally can't. The only explanation I would be willing to consider would be that perhaps he had some sort of visual impairment or condition that would cause him to be unable to distinguish colors. And it might require him to be hard of hearing and feeling of a possible breeze. A heck of a thing - if that was the case, which, given his attorney's propensity to throw every excuse and even outright lies out there to cover up the horrible truth, we would have heard about for sure by now.

Good point. And, if so, Chloes parents wouldn’t have left her in his hands. Or at least, we would hope not. Why did they? It’s still A mystery.

 

[al66pine]

Who is Winkleman Representing? W Regard to What Matter?

....SA was advised to hire civil lawyer to deflect the impact of the criminal charges that were sure to come. I thought that was very interesting criminal defense strategy. And maybe why Winkleman continues to beat his drum. Plus, of course, his bank account.

@Midwestmom2019 bbm IIRC, in early days MSM said G'father went to appt at PR LE and on adv of his crim atty (maybe w crim atty present, I forget) did not give a stmt at that time.
Are you saying you believe G'father SA did this ^, the bbm?
Specifically, do you believe G'father SA, w'in a few days of Chloe's death, all fam still in PR---
---- engaged a crim atty early enough to advise him/rep him at that first LE interview AND
---- engaged civil atty Winkleman to represent him too, for well, whatever?

If so, do you think Winkleman has rep agreemt w parents re tort action/wrongful death, AND
--------------------Winkleman has rep agreemt w SA for well, whatever?

If so, do you see conflict of interest for Winkleman between those two rep agreements?

 

[al66pine]

Floor Level Window, w Vertical Bars?

YES! Great picture ....
This looks like a prison window screwed over a movable glass window behind it. For ventilation along the ground?.... I’m pretty sure it’s a ground level ventilation window.
....

@Midwestmom2019 Yes, it does look like a prison window.

Image is on post 453 by @GoneGoldfishin' I just tried to paste here, no can do.
it's possible it serves as ventilation along the floor.
IIRC a veteran cruiser explained an open-to-the-sky/no-ceiling deck (like part of 11) must have a way to drain accumulated rain water off the floor/deck. So some low level windows can be opened to allow rain water out, while vertical bars prevent ppl, even toddlers, from going out.

 

[neesaki]

IN-Grandfather charged cruise ship death of Chloe Wiegand MEDIA TIMELINE NO DISCUSSION
I’ve updated the media thread so please feel free to contribute MSM - thanks

Thank you for all your work on the media timeline, great job, Oviedo.

 

[oviedo]

They walk over to the wall of windows where Anello appears to look over the railing, through the open window. Anello picks Chloe up and stands her up on the railing, and they appear to lean over together looking out over the port.

Then he re-adjusts and sits Chloe on the railing, still facing the port. They lean over again and she disappears from the frame.

Other passengers then rush to the windows to see what happened. Some are seen walking away, clearly distraught.
Harrowing surveillance video captures 1-year-old's fatal fall off cruise ship

I’ve added this to the media thread and expect other news agencies will obtain the video as well and that it will be leaked - my bet is the daily mail first. Interesting to compare the news stories and their reports on what they viewed - the comments on this story - wow

 

[oviedo]

Video of toddler's fatal cruise ship fall may help decide grandfather's fate

Snipped
Police initially said Salvatore Anello told officers he lost his grip while holding the girl outside the window, the Associated Press reported.
...
Anello, 51, of Valparaiso, "negligently exposed the child to the abyss through a window on the 11th floor of the cruise ship," Puerto Rico Attorney General Dennise N. Longo Quiñones and other officials said in an Oct 28 news release announcing the charge and Anello's arrest.

Negligent homicide is a misdemeanor charge, but carries the same penalty as a fourth-degree felony under Puerto Rico law, said Juan Torruella Rojas, a San Juan defense lawyer who is not affiliated with the case.

—-
Interesting the comments from SAs attorney are that the video proves his clients innocence- yet he won’t provide a copy of the video to the Indy Star
JMO

 

[oviedo]

That whole lounge area is full of beach chairs and tables. It isn't easy to get against a window, is that right? In the photo of the investigators in the area that night, all the lounge chairs are pushed away from the windows for the police to have their work area. There are plenty of them.

Parents of Chloe Wiegand stand by her grandfather after he is charged in her death | Daily Mail Online

In my prior cruises the tables and chairs are spaced out and access to the open windows is not that difficult - my question still is was she held outside the window at all? I wish the news agencies would say clearly
JMO

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Parents of Chloe Wiegand stand by her grandfather after he is charged in her death | Daily Mail Online

In my prior cruises the tables and chairs are spaced out and access to the open windows is not that difficult - my question still is was she held outside the window at all? I wish the news agencies would say clearly
JMO

I keep going back to the initial reports about this incident - before MW began to obfuscate the facts. A crew member who was interviewed by local authorities said SA was "rocking the child" on the window ledge. Given Winkleman's recent statement that Grandpa looked over the railing before lifting Chloe to the window, then the two of them leaning out for a better view, I think this is what the crew member meant by "rocking". This doesn't sound like SA actually held Chloe outside the window frame, but her head and upper body might have gone beyond the frame as they leaned forward.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

I keep going back to the initial reports about this incident - before MW began to obfuscate the facts. A crew member who was interviewed by local authorities said SA was "rocking the child" on the window ledge. Given Winkleman's recent statement that Grandpa looked over the railing before lifting Chloe to the window, then the two of them leaning out for a better view, I think this is what the crew member meant by "rocking". This doesn't sound like SA actually held Chloe outside the window frame, but her head and upper body might have gone beyond the frame as they leaned forward.

I think it's a matter of physics where either the path of least resistance was for her to slide out (like if part of her body was out the window) or she was pushed. It's not like there's an allegation of something breaking that caused her to fall so it goes down to her placement and her motion. I think for her to non-maliciously fall out the window that her legs were partially out the window and when SA leaned her forward it had a lot of her mass frontloaded. The more Winkleman acts like Chloe and SA were back from the window, the more of a push it would take from SA.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

I keep going back to the initial reports about this incident - before MW began to obfuscate the facts. A crew member who was interviewed by local authorities said SA was "rocking the child" on the window ledge. Given Winkleman's recent statement that Grandpa looked over the railing before lifting Chloe to the window, then the two of them leaning out for a better view, I think this is what the crew member meant by "rocking". This doesn't sound like SA actually held Chloe outside the window frame, but her head and upper body might have gone beyond the frame as they leaned forward.

BBM...then how did she manage to fall?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

BBM...then how did she manage to fall?

"I dropped my child!" - Salvatore Anello

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

"I dropped my child!" - Salvatore Anello

I hate this case. It's disgusting, horrifying and was COMPLETELY preventable. I think Winkleman needs to be charged with some kind of slander for repeatedly spreading lies and misinformation about the location of the CRIME and changing the story. He is a piece of work.

 

[book-thinker]

I hate this case. It's disgusting, horrifying and was COMPLETELY preventable. I think Winkleman needs to be charged with some kind of slander for repeatedly spreading lies and misinformation about the location of the CRIME and changing the story. He is a piece of work.

I believe the grandfather realized the window was opened. He made that statement in order to reflect the blame on someone else specifically the cruise line. The gf is sticking to the statement. This reminds me of child lying about something he did wrong in order to stay out of trouble.

This last summer both of my grandson’s were visiting me. The younger grandson (13 years old) was in the kitchen making a grilled cheese sandwich while he was watching it most likely out of boredom he began flipping the spatula near a french porcelain butter dish on the counter, suddenly he drops the spatula, I asking him what happened after hearing a banging sound, he said nothing Grandma. I realized later flipping the spatula and dropping on my butter dish caused a small chip on the platter. He didn’t want to fuss up to what happened.

Unfortunately you can’t compare what the Grandfather did to a child telling a fib.

 

[Montrealaise]

Video of Chloe Wiegand’s cruise death shows grandfather thought window was closed: lawyer

https://nypost.com/2019/11/22/video...grandfather-thought-window-was-closed-lawyer/

The lawyer's statement does not make sense.
From the article: "Anello appears to look over the railing, through an open window. He stands Chloe up on the railing and they lean over ... He sits her on the railing and they lean over again before she disappears"
How in the world could SA not know the window was open? For her to fall out of the window, her center of gravity had to be forward, over the open window.

 

[IceIce9]

"I dropped my child!" - Salvatore Anello

How could anyone even form a coherent sentence after seeing a baby fall to her death like that? I’m thinking he would instantly be in shock.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

The lawyer's statement does not make sense.
From the article: "Anello appears to look over the railing, through an open window. He stands Chloe up on the railing and they lean over ... He sits her on the railing and they lean over again before she disappears"
How in the world could SA not know the window was open? For her to fall out of the window, her center of gravity had to be forward, over the open window.

So how does the "act of games" we keep hearing about figure into the equation?

 

[Midwestmom2019]

I think it's a matter of physics where either the path of least resistance was for her to slide out (like if part of her body was out the window) or she was pushed. It's not like there's an allegation of something breaking that caused her to fall so it goes down to her placement and her motion. I think for her to non-maliciously fall out the window that her legs were partially out the window and when SA leaned her forward it had a lot of her mass frontloaded. The more Winkleman acts like Chloe and SA were back from the window, the more of a push it would take from SA.

So she was in front of him. He was holding her from behind her. They leaned forward and his body pushed her out of the window totally. Caught him by surprise bc he didn’t have a good grip on her. That’s why he said I DROPPED my child.
OMG.