IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #3

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Am I seeing it correctly? There is 6 inches between the ocean side of the railing to the interior side of the window? That’s a BIG space.
When he sat her on the window ledge, sill, she had to have had her bottom right in the middle of the track. Otherwise her bottom would have slipped into the 6 in. space.
 
Can you imagine if all hotels were considered negligent for having balconies with railings? Because people circumvented the railing and put their child on top of or outside of the railing and then lost their grip?

I wonder if PR has proportional liability laws.
 
The little grated window had no glass in Voyager, I asked what it was and was told it was for maintenance and access for window washing.
Impossible to fall through.

Sorry my pics won’t download. I’ll keeo trying-more to come.
So you’re on the cruise now? Wow. Thank you for the pics, they’ll get. It’s helpful to see with the measurements.
 
Am I seeing it correctly? There is 6 inches between the ocean side of the railing to the interior side of the window? That’s a BIG space.
When he sat her on the window ledge, sill, she had to have had her bottom right in the middle of the track. Otherwise her bottom would have slipped into the 6 in. space.
Looks like 6 inches to me too. Looking at those pics it’s even harder to believe he placed there.
 
All the windows in voyager of the seas still open so that tells me RCCL remains confident.

Voyager has been through a refurbishment and I’ve noticed the chairs sit closer together creating a bit more of a barrier, it’s harder to get closer to the windows but still accessible.
View attachment 220655
I’m only using my phone and unfortunately many of the pics are too large to download. Sorry if some are sideways. More to come.


Fabulous pics, tgy. Is that on the kids pool deck? Smoking area right by the windows?

When I compare the Voyager of the Seas and the Freedom of the Seas they look very much the same. The difference being that the Freedom is newer, and they extended the length when they made the Freedom.

"The Freedom class is a lengthened version of the Voyager of the Seas class ... "
Freedom of the Seas

Voyager of the Seas Cruise - Ship Review - Photos & Departure Ports on Cruise Critic
 
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Fabulous pics, tgy. Is that on the kids pool deck? Smoking area right by the windows?

When I compare the Voyager of the Seas and the Freedom of the Seas they look very much the same. The difference being that the Freedom is newer, and they extended the length when they made the Freedom.

"The Freedom class is a lengthened version of the Voyager of the Seas class ... "
Freedom of the Seas

Voyager of the Seas Cruise - Ship Review - Photos & Departure Ports on Cruise Critic

It’s deck 11 where the pools are. I’m thinking very similar.

I was there measuring and amazingly, like on cue, the lifeguard came past opening all the windows so that tells me RCCL have NOT been warned.
In the morning most windows are closed and then begin to get opened throughout the day.
 
Also, if this makes sense, I stood at the railing and looked straight down and the angle is f the windows allows a view (?) straight down.
3FCEB95E-4141-4551-9FA4-E6CCCFD4152A.jpeg
I am leaning up against the rail here with my diaphragm area in the rail. If a child was to sit in this little ledge/pane and look down they would have a perfect line of sight.
It was NOT necessary for little Chloe to be lifted up.
 
Can you imagine if all hotels were considered negligent for having balconies with railings? Because people circumvented the railing and put their child on top of or outside of the railing and then lost their grip?

I wonder if PR has proportional liability laws.

It’ll be in FL. Something about the ship not being at sea. And FL is headquarters for RCCL.
But I sure hope so. Bc mom’s been chanting that RCCL has the biggest part of the blame. So that infers SA is partly responsible.
Great start. Hope you’re correct.
 
Also, if this makes sense, I stood at the railing and looked straight down and the angle is f the windows allows a view (?) straight down.
View attachment 220688
I am leaning up against the rail here with my diaphragm area in the rail. If a child was to sit in this little ledge/pane and look down they would have a perfect line of sight.
It was NOT necessary for little Chloe to be lifted up.

Cute shoes.
Sorry. Had to put levity into this thread.
 
David Begnaud was SO pro SA in the first days after the tragedy. Apparently, he’s beginning to get it. And you may have caught him putting words into SA’s mouth about how he was holding Chloe, then knocking on nothing, reaching down...DB had to demonstrate to SA how SA was bear hugging her then knocking on the missing window.
When DB asked how he felt as she was falling, SA gave the impression of how horrid it was watching her fall. Hmm. I thought he said he first looked for her on the floor? Well, SA, which is it? Did you watch her fall? Or did you miss it bc you were looking down on the floor for her?
I’m with posters who don’t believe anything the guy is saying.
It’s still a huge gamble for RCCL to take it to trial. Bc the money stakes are so high. However, the criminal case outcome will have a lot to do with their legal posturing. I hope SA gets the maximum sentence allowed under PR law. With no chance for early release. For those posters who think he’ll have to think about this the rest of his life, I say good. And he can think about it for the next three years while he sits in jail. Wonder how fellow inmates will view this guy? Jailhouse justice. It’s secret, it’s swift and it’s certain.

IMHO personal injury cases like this have little to no merit. And have caused the backlash in public sentiment against personal injury lawyers and lawsuits. There are so many meritorious cases that never find their way into the legal system. People just choose to move on despite the validity of their claims against the wrongdoers. There does not seem to be any middle ground. Maybe it’s distrust of all things legal? Or the truthfulness of the parties? I can think of a few more reasons, but this is not the forum to discuss those thoughts.

“First, let’s kill all the lawyers.”
More Shakespeare.

Edited to add: At the very end of the video, DA remarks no matter what the outcome, he’ll have to get some help. He didn’t say why. Guess he knows there is a good chance he’ll be in jail. But he’ll get help? If it’s grief counseling, what’s he waiting for? The sooner the better. If it’s substance abuse, or habitual disregard of the law, or a propensity to embellish/change the story of what actually transpired, i.e. lying, again, why wait?
It would help him during the sentencing phase. But I guess no one has told him to act like he’s sorry about Chloe, or anything else contributing to his reckless behavior on board the ship.


Oh I agree on the leaving out he looked on the floor
But he sure is repeating “ the sign”
“ this would of never happened if there was a SIGN”
“ I just want them to fix the boat”

...so what would the sign say?
Hey, if you are color blind & about to lift a toddler 3 feet up & over this railing to bang on glass ...the window could be open & therefore dangerous. Hope you read this sign.

MOO
 
I don’t think Winkleman has seen all of it either. He’s just a civil attorney, why would they share that with him? It could jeopardize their defense.
And of course the defense attorney says what he says. Because that’s what he’s supposed to say.

Wink is as shady as a pair of cheap sunglasses

IMO
 
It’s deck 11 where the pools are. I’m thinking very similar.

I was there measuring and amazingly, like on cue, the lifeguard came past opening all the windows so that tells me RCCL have NOT been warned.
In the morning most windows are closed and then begin to get opened throughout the day.

So, it is possible that SA was having a sneaky smoke. Only had one hand free to balance Chloe on that guardrail. And if so, possibly holding his other hand more behind himself and away so that the smoke and cigarette wouldn't get near little Chloe.
 
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