IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #5

[mickey2942]

That "explanation" is such crap. "“I bent down by her. We always, like, whenever you’re at hockey games, we would bang on the glass, and it was fun, you know,” Anello said in an exclusive interview with CBS News. “So, when I knelt down to be with her at that level, I couldn’t reach the glass really, only with my fingertips so I knew she couldn’t. So that’s when I decided I’d pick her up. So, I was trying to stand her on the railing, and it happened in seconds.”
‘It’s like the glass disappeared’: Grandfather recounts toddler falling to her death from cruise ship I hope they pick apart each and every senseless, contradictory, changed and lying statement he has made in the court case.

And, he never once even balanced her on the railing. It was out the window.

I watched the video in sheer disbelief. I literally couldn't believe what I was seeing. He deliberately put a child over a safety rail, and out an open window.

 

[Chikkamma]

Thank you so much for this!!! I'm baffled, starting at about 9:35 in the video, he walks over to the window and it appears that he actually sticks his entire upper body through the window to look down below! Or am I seeing things? Sorry I know this has already probably been discussed...I'm just shocked because my eyes aren't the best and in the lesser quality DM video it did not appear that he did this. ???

Yup, that is exactly what he did. I did a translation of the La Comay hosts’ comments on an earlier thread and they repeatedly emphasized how SA was so far out he was able to look STRAIGHt downwards. You can’t do this without your head being past the window pane.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

And, he never once even balanced her on the railing. It was out the window.

I watched the video in sheer disbelief. I literally couldn't believe what I was seeing. He deliberately put a child over a safety rail, and out an open window.

Call me crazy, but that sounds like MURDER to me. IMO, JMOO, IMHO, all that stuff.

 

[Only4Justice]

And, he never once even balanced her on the railing. It was out the window.

I watched the video in sheer disbelief. I literally couldn't believe what I was seeing. He deliberately put a child over a safety rail, and out an open window.

So did I @mickey2942. I can’t bear to watch it again.

 

[neesaki]

IMHO any parent or caregiver who encourages their child to "bang on glass" should be reported to CPS. Even just standing by the glass at a venue can result in disaster, as pucks have been known to shatter that glass! I have that info straight from my DH who is a rabid hockey fan and has been around the country to many many games. I cannot believe the whole family was on board with that dangerous, senseless little pastime. That right there would almost seem like a setup for a future injury and/or lawsuit. Almost. Plus, I did some Googling around...Hockey rules reinforced: Don't bang on the glass (VIDEO)
Glass Bangers: True Fans or Morons? | Illegal Curve Hockey

One would think an ambulance chasing attorney would know better than to promote this ridiculous glass banging farce.

Interesting too, right after Wman released his cut and edited video to CBS, the full uncut version comes out on Comay. Kind of backfired on him didn’t it?

 

[beatrixpotter]

Thank you so much for this!!! I'm baffled, starting at about 9:35 in the video, he walks over to the window and it appears that he actually sticks his entire upper body through the window to look down below! Or am I seeing things? Sorry I know this has already probably been discussed...I'm just shocked because my eyes aren't the best and in the lesser quality DM video it did not appear that he did this. ???

This is what changed my mind. I was much more sympathetic to him till I saw the videos. And he clearly stuck his damn head out the window. I would never watch that video and believe he couldn't tell the window was open. I can see even on the crappy video the windows are open. And I use blue blocking screens on my computer so I can't see blue either. But even with the blue blocking features you could tell by color. But forget color...he stuck.his.head.out.the.window!

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

This is what changed my mind. I was much more sympathetic to him till I saw the videos. And he clearly stuck his damn head out the window. I would never watch that video and believe he couldn't tell the window was open. I can see even on the crappy video the windows are open. And I use blue blocking screens on my computer so I can't see blue either. But even with the blue blocking features you could tell by color. But forget color...he stuck.his.head.out.the.window!

Yup, the Emperor isn't wearing any clothes...

 

[they'll get you]

I completely agree! Any child should be DISCOURAGED from banging on glass! smdh

I’m sure the glass is strong but I wouldn’t allow my child to bang on glass at that level.


“So, when I knelt down to be with her at that level, I couldn’t reach the glass really, only with my fingertips so I knew she couldn’t.”

I call rubbish when SA said Chloe couldn’t reach the glass.
The windows are at a slight outward angle and she could’ve touched them easily.
She was safe down at that level.

 

[they'll get you]

Call me crazy, but that sounds like MURDER to me. IMO, JMOO, IMHO, all that stuff.

But why would he murder Chloe?

 

[Lilibet]

I would love to know what Winkleman first said when he contacted the Wiegands. What “sales pitch” did he use? How did the “banging on glass” excuse originate. Has he ever been on this ship and seen the windows? He must be pretty persuasive to move the family from overwhelmed with grief to considering a lawsuit in such a short time!

I’m inclined to think that he told them they needed to “get out ahead of the story” to protect SA before LE charged him. He perhaps recommended that they take the offensive by suing. Did he alarm them by describing charges SA might face if they didn’t hire him to spin the story. Did he brag about the big money cases he has won?

Thankfully LE in Puerto Rico has done a thorough and careful investigation despite all the posturing by Winkleman and the family.

 

[they'll get you]

What’s the only benefit of taking the footage to a journalist?

Parents who are searching for a child go to journalists. Otherwise? No.

 

[neesaki]

I would love to know what Winkleman first said when he contacted the Wiegands. What “sales pitch” did he use? How did the “banging on glass” excuse originate. Has he ever been on this ship and seen the windows? He must be pretty persuasive to move the family from overwhelmed with grief to considering a lawsuit in such a short time!

I’m inclined to think that he told them they needed to “get out ahead of the story” to protect SA before LE charged him. He perhaps recommended that they take the offensive by suing. Did he alarm them by describing charges SA might face if they didn’t hire him to spin the story. Did he brag about the big money cases he has won?

Thankfully LE in Puerto Rico has done a thorough and careful investigation despite all the posturing by Winkleman and the family.

I’ve been wondering about that, did he contact the family or vice versa? I actually thought it was illegal for attorneys to contact potential clients, or does this vary from state to state? TIA

 

[they'll get you]

I would NOT trust a journalist with something I did not want released.

I’d go to the media if I WANTED it released to the public.
That’s the only reason I can think of.

 

[Safeguard]

This is what changed my mind. I was much more sympathetic to him till I saw the videos. And he clearly stuck his damn head out the window. I would never watch that video and believe he couldn't tell the window was open. I can see even on the crappy video the windows are open. And I use blue blocking screens on my computer so I can't see blue either. But even with the blue blocking features you could tell by color. But forget color...he stuck.his.head.out.the.window!

Right? I never believed for one second that he thought that window was closed. Even before I saw him enjoying the view out of it with my own two eyes.

I always felt sure he was letting Chloe look outside. There was just no other reason he picked the child up to my mind.

Thats what he first told PR authorities, that's what makes the most sense and that's what he does before he even picks Chloe up, he leans out and takes in the view.

I am curious to see what they come up with now that no one believes the hockey glass lie anymore. It will be interesting to see how they contort themselves trying to wriggle out of this now that they've lost control of the narrative.

 

[Lilibet]

Call me crazy, but that sounds like MURDER to me. IMO, JMOO, IMHO, all that stuff.

Murder requires intent, and I honestly don’t think he intended to drop Chloe. As awful as the video is, IMO it’s a case of negligent homicide/depraved indifference to life and safety. I think he wanted to give her a “thrill” by “flying” her outside the window, or at worst “teasingly” scare her (sadistic IMO). His “game” went horribly awry.
JMO

But why would he murder Chloe?

That’s a good question. I just don’t see it as murder. Proving a motive (why) is not required, but they would have to prove intent to charge him with murder. I think that would be a stretch.
JMO

 

[Lilibet]

I’ve been wondering about that, did he contact the family or vice versa? I actually thought it was illegal for attorneys to contact potential clients, or does this vary from state to state? TIA

Here is the rule and the loophole Winkleman likely used. I imagine he found a way to text the Wiegands, which would not count as person-to-person contact.

A lawyer shall not solicit professional employment by live person-to-person contact when a significant motive for the lawyer’s doing so is the lawyer’s or law firm’s pecuniary gain,

Rule 7.3 Solicitation of Clients

Live person-to-person contact” means in-person, face-to-face, live telephone and other real-time visual or auditory person-to-person communications where the person is subject to a direct personal encounter without time for reflection. Such person-to-person contact does not include chat rooms, text messages or other written communications that recipients may easily disregard.
BBM
Rule 7.3 Solicitation of Clients - Comment

 

[Pak31]

It's been really hard to watch that video. Makes me ill each time.

He leans way out the window before he picks up Chloe. He spends at least 6-8 seconds peering out, then picks her up and almost immediately you can see that his right arm is not holding her. He puts her *way* out the window. What is he thinking? Is he simply the world's most distractible or stupid man? (Or both)?

As to why he didn't choose a safer thing to do, I think it's obvious he was not planning anything at all. It is indeed a mystery as to how he ends up being a sole caretaker for so many minutes.

He has to have known there was a sheer drop there, he bends over and looks out of the window (at least that's what I see in those videos).

SA saying he thought glass was there doesn’t make any sense to me. The whole wall was windows. He stuck half his body beyond the wall of windows. For quite some time. Did he seriously think that particular “window” jutted out three feet beyond the whole wall in just that one spot? Also, right before she ran to the windows he leaned down and said something to her. Did he tell her to go to the windows? Then in the video from behind after he looked out the arrow shows him or Chloe go to the right for a bit and then they end up back at that open window. Or am I mistaken? Either way I see him bend out the open window twice and then carelessly fling her into the sill and go one handed right away. I just wish there was a closer video. Not that I’d want to see her fall but to have a better understanding. I don’t know how this could have been an accident.

 

[SouthAussie]

Here is the rule and the loophole Winkleman likely used. I imagine he found a way to text the Wiegands, which would not count as person-to-person contact.

A lawyer shall not solicit professional employment by live person-to-person contact when a significant motive for the lawyer’s doing so is the lawyer’s or law firm’s pecuniary gain,

Rule 7.3 Solicitation of Clients

Live person-to-person contact” means in-person, face-to-face, live telephone and other real-time visual or auditory person-to-person communications where the person is subject to a direct personal encounter without time for reflection. Such person-to-person contact does not include chat rooms, text messages or other written communications that recipients may easily disregard.
BBM
Rule 7.3 Solicitation of Clients - Comment

I really have a wavering mind about who contacted who between Winkleman and the family.

Chloe's dad was out there on the night of her death taking a photo of the window - which was published and captioned in the Daily Mail. (Did they contact Winkleman?)

Winkleman made a point of saying - 3 days after Chloe's death - that the family were trying to work through the red tape to bring Chloe home. (Did Winkleman contact the family to help with any 'red tape' due to his cruise line experience? This, of course, getting his foot in the door for any future legal actions.)

 

[Pak31]

Call me crazy, but that sounds like MURDER to me. IMO, JMOO, IMHO, all that stuff.

IMO from the side view video it happened so fast that it looks like he coaxed her to that spot. Looked out and leaned out. He had to know there wasn’t glass or anything foot sturdy past that ledge. It was the view of the ground. He then picks her up and sort of flings her over the railing. Not even gently. Then you see him one handed!! Then IMO, I almost feel as if it appears he’s trying to let go but she’s holding on and he has to undo her grasp. His body half way out the window and the quickness of the situation makes me feel it was intentional. Say for example if she didn’t fall but her mom had walked over and had seen this happening, would she have been ok with it? Would she have sat there and enjoyed watching him holding her child like that? No way. They are not being honest with the media imo.

 

[Pak31]

Murder requires intent, and I honestly don’t think he intended to drop Chloe. As awful as the video is, IMO it’s a case of negligent homicide/depraved indifference to life and safety. I think he wanted to give her a “thrill” by “flying” her outside the window, or at worst “teasingly” scare her (sadistic IMO). His “game” went horribly awry.
JMO



That’s a good question. I just don’t see it as murder. Proving a motive (why) is not required, but they would have to prove intent to charge him with murder. I think that would be a stretch.
JMO

I get your point but how could any adult human being hold a child out an 11 story window as just playing around? It’s so extreme. I can see a careless person allowing a toddler to walk on the top of the back of a couch and then fall but 11 stories up? That doesn’t make one ounce of sense. Not one. Then after the fact none of the family members seem that broken up about her. This was a nightmare and how her mom went on tv two weeks later and was able to be composed is beyond me. The horrific death and losing your baby? That combination would have me depressed for a very long time. Yet they were able to get s lawsuit going ASAP? They had a huge life insurance policy on her? I know everyone is different but I’ve seen people grieve longer from a miscarriage. My personal opinion.