IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #5

[Montrealaise]

I think SA feels horrible but has convinced himself that his reckless behavior was an accident, and because the parents hired the attorney so quickly he's now stuck between a rock and a hard place.

If he admits guilt now he compromises the civil suit and his criminal case. IMO the time to admit guilt was when he dropped Chloe and IIRC early on he did say he "dropped" her. But once the parents engaged Winkleman they all had to toe the line of RCCL being the bad guy and SA being a victim. So the story had to change.

And while I feel sympathy for Chloe's parents it leaves a bad taste in my mouth that SA can't even express guilt or remorse because of the civil suit. A suit that they may very well lose. IMO that's not conducive to the healing process. MOO.

At this point, SA cannot admit guilt without admitting to Chloe's parents that a) he was incredibly stupid and reckless with their little girl and b) he has been lying to them the whole time. Would they have filed the lawsuit against RCCL if they had known the truth about his actions?

 

[fabvab]

I looked at several photos of the H2O Zone, and noticed an 18 step staircase to an open deck above the pool. Why didn't SA bring CW up there to safely enjoy the view?

Good point. I just can’t see him climbing the 18 steps...especially with Chloe. Not without exerting himself.

 

[jeena]

There were no change stations inside the women’s toilets and I didn’t notice any but surely they were there somewhere.
It’d consider it safe to leave a supply bag on a deck chair as many people do while they swim.

I read a few posts on other sites stating cruisers saw no changing stations on FOS. In fact, some cruise liners suggest changing diapers in the cabin only, and some posters with young children say going all the way back to the cabin to change diapers is too inconvenient, and they would only go on cruise lines that are "kid friendly" by offering changing stations, like Disney. Thanks for reporting your observations, very informative!

 

[oviedo]

So is deck 11 comparable to the 11th floor of a hotel room?

That is really high! And thank you for sharing that video.

Here’s a couple views of my recent trip on RCCLits a long way down IMO

 

[oviedo]

I’m sure the legal eagles have researched all his history, like any cruelty when he was young up till now.

I’m now looking beyond stupidity and towards sadism as just can’t get my head around what he did.

I think he must have held her up high at other venues as he didn’t seem to think anything was wrong with dangling her outside the window after he himself leaned out - IMO

 

[oviedo]

View attachment 222222
100% wood railings on the Voyager and the YouTube vid of the Freedom was wood.
The window frames are metal.
IMO metal would get too hot in the sun. Jeeze imagine the law suits with hot metal railings.

My ship had metal railings in the adults only solarium and wood in the main pool deck

 

[Kindred]

Copy of Criminal Complaint?
Seems this should have been publicly released.
Maybe it has been and I've forgotten reading it.
Link to a pdf translated to English anyone? Thx in adv.

I haven't found a copy and have been looking.

I have found the docket info but I don't know Spanish so I'm unable to try to get anywhere to actually get a copy of the filings (Google Translate only does so much lol). If anyone else is able to here's the docket screen shots as of this morning. Case number KVI2019M0003




It looks like there's a Status Conference set for Jan 27th (I know someone had mentioned it previously just restating in case people hadn't seen). I'm curious what will happen now that the tape has been leaked.

 

[IceIce9]

Set sentimentality aside and watch the video as if you didn’t know it was a relative who picked Chloe up.

Watching the video as if it was a complete stranger, wouldn’t you thing he looked to make sure no one was watching, picked her up, held her up over his head and chucked her out the window?

A senseless murder!

 

[jeena]

View attachment 222309 My ship had metal railings in the adults only solarium and wood in the main pool deck

Were there many children on your cruise? Was the ship decorated for the holidays? Just curious, I can't cruise, tried a Carnival cruise to Bahamas a long time ago, was seasick the entire time! 'Hope you had a great time. I bet you thought a lot about Chloe. Thanks for all your photos!

 

[they'll get you]

How ironic if it blew off due to the breeze through the 'closed window'.

The hat blew off, he reached for the hat and dropped Chloe?

 

[they'll get you]

yeah, I didn't want to go there (mentally) until I saw the video...a strong case can be made for deliberate intention.

That appears to be the big missing puzzle piece because otherwise nothing else makes sense.

 

[they'll get you]

Here’s a couple views of my recent trip on RCCLView attachment 222303View attachment 222304View attachment 222305its a long way down IMO

Welcome home Oviedo we missed you.

 

[Kindred]

The hat blew off, he reached for the hat and dropped Chloe?

Hat is sun bonnet that is tied on. I never saw anything that looked like it blew off as far as I can tell it was still tied onto her little head

 

[Jewels53]

Hat is sun bonnet that is tied on. I never saw anything that looked like it blew off as far as I can tell it was still tied onto her little head

I watched the video frame by frame and it seemed to me the hat stayed on. That was on the view from behind. I am sure Grandpa lost his grip of just one arm. He should have never lifted her up in that window. jmo

Also I think grandpa was wiping sweat from his face when he came up to the window. imo

 

[Chikkamma]

I am watching around the 8:33/8:34 mark, the critical moment. Do you think Chloe is looking out the window, or facing inwards towards him? I don't see her hat any more. Just the dark shape of her head.

Great observation! I never noticed that before. I wonder at what point in time she lost her hat. I believe she still had it on when he first lifted her onto the railing. So perhaps the wind [that he couldn’t feel] knocked it off?

 

[Chikkamma]

20. Upon reaching this wall of glass, Chloe asked to be lifted up so that she could bang on the glass of the window, as Chloe frequently did at her older brother’s hockey games. Mr. Anello then lifted Chloe up onto the railing and held Chloe while she leaned forward to bang on the glass that Mr. Anello and Chloe thought to be in front of them. As Chloe leaned forward, however, there was no glass in the frame in front of her, and she slipped from Mr. Anello’s arms, falling through the open pane and down approximately 150 feet below onto the Pier in San Juan, resulting in her death.
https://www.lipcon.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/DE-1-Wrongful-Death-Complaint.pdf

This is the most victim-blaming language I have ever read. The baby was reckless and brought this on herself it seems.

Surprised Winkleman didn’t say that she yelled “I only blame myself and Royal Caribbean!” as she fell.

 

[oviedo]

Were there many children on your cruise? Was the ship decorated for the holidays? Just curious, I can't cruise, tried a Carnival cruise to Bahamas a long time ago, was seasick the entire time! 'Hope you had a great time. I bet you thought a lot about Chloe. Thanks for all your photos!

Yes, it was very decorated - quite beautiful. Lots of small ones - I counted at least a dozen - all closely held by parents. There was one moment on Deck 12 where a mom was taking a picture of her little one standing by the railing - that gave me pause. she could easily have turned around and slipped through the railing in the wind - it was blowing so hard. So I stood there until their picture taking was over and she was securely back in mom's arms. I did not see anyone holding small ones up to the open windows in either the pool deck area or up on deck 12 - I think due to the wind. The breeze is very strong while docked IMO. You can't really keep a hat on.
JMO

 

[neesaki]

I am watching around the 8:33/8:34 mark, the critical moment. Do you think Chloe is looking out the window, or facing inwards towards him? I don't see her hat any more. Just the dark shape of her head.

The hat blew off, he reached for the hat and dropped Chloe?

As I posted up a ways, I saw the hat still on around the 11:00 mark. Did you view it there, from the side view angle?

 

[Chikkamma]

View attachment 222309 My ship had metal railings in the adults only solarium and wood in the main pool deck

Thank you for posting these pics. Was your head able to go partially beyond the window pane when you leaned over the railing?

 

[borndem]

"There's no plea deal in writing yet, according to the attorney representing the Indiana grandfather. But he tells CBS News the agreement would require Anello to plead guilty to negligent homicide in the death of Wiegand. In exchange, he would get no jail time and minimum probation and supervision."

Great. He should definitely do a plea.

I think I would take the deal if I were he. It does not admit guilt or harmful intent, it just admits that he was negligent. Kids get in all sorts of trouble due to new parents or grandparents, etc., not knowing little things to do to help toddlers and older kids not harm themselves around the house -- it doesn't mean the adults wanted the child to get hurt, it just means that they forgot, didn't know, were surprised by a visit which included a toddler, etc.
Negligence does not imply intent. This is the best offer he'll get, IMO.
Go for it, Grandpa.