IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #5

[BetteDavisEyes]

Newer La Comay episode that shown more footage from the side view after SA’s collapse to the floor:

Host points out a couple new things he didn’t mention in the first show. First, when SA is crouched down by the pillar, he turns his head towards the window and seems to be watching a man who is already at the window. It looks like he was waiting for his turn because only right after this man leaves, does SA get up and walk straight to the window.

I mentioned this previously. It looked like SA was hot and sweaty, longing for fresh air and a cooling breeze. He knew that window was open and headed directly toward it. If it had been about looking around outside the ship, he could have proceeded to any section of the wall of windows.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I haven't traveled very much, and have never been on a cruise, (although my sister's love them!), but do to your fabulous writing style I feel like I've been on a very short, extremely inexpensive cruise!.

If you ever write a mystery novel, set aboard a cruise ship, I'll be the first in line at Barnes & Noble! (Although, wouldn’t turn down a signed free copy )

Aw, shucks Thanks for the kind words.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

I mentioned this previously. It looked like SA was hot and sweaty, longing for fresh air and a cooling breeze. He knew that window was open and headed directly toward it. If it had been about looking around outside the ship, he could have proceeded to any section of the wall of windows.

IMHO he went to that open window to do precisely what he did.

 

[whatsnext]

Could somebody translate what the ophtalmologist said? My spanish is apparently only good enough to order a paella
Thanks in advance!
ETA only roughly, I don't expect any surprises

 

[Safeguard]

Could somebody translate what the ophtalmologist said? My spanish is apparently only good enough to order a paella
Thanks in advance!
ETA only roughly, I don't expect any surprises

There was a good translated description I found elsewhere:

"I just watched the La Comay video. I can understand spanish as my family and DHs are Puerto Rican.

The commentary, essentially, is along the same lines as the prevailing thought here. In general, the hosts do not believe the story being given by the grandfather and the lawyer at ALL. They were quite scathing in their criticism towards the actions of the grandfather, saying it is very clear that he was OUT the window and that the child could not have possibly been in a position to fall outside the window if the grandpa had not purposely held her out of it. They also made some passing comments about how he "appears to be about 80, but is only 51, can you believe that?" They said that he had to feel the wind, hear the sounds and that there is no plausible way he didn't know the window was open. Essentially, they dump all over his claim by pointing out how far he is leaning out and that 18" would mean, at the angle he was leaning, his head would have smashed into the window, at the very least.

Later, they comment that he does BOTH things: perches her on the railing AND holds he out the actual window (he does this first, then brings her back in, sits her on the railing, adjusts his hold on her, then picks her up again to place her forward over the windowsill where it is clear (by her hand gripping the window frame) that her upper body is OUT the window, leaning forward. They also comment how there is a lapse in the time between the child disappearing from view and him collapsing. They wonder whether he just "couldn't believe what he was seeing" as an explanation for the delay, and say that they can't imagine he purposely watched her fall all the way to the ground before reacting, but that it was a bit of an odd reaction.

Finally the puppet guy makes some statements that this was not a blood relative, he was a step grandpa. He says it seems that the "pain" being experienced by the family does not seem to jive with their behavior in the immediate PR and lawsuits filed, and their insistence that the grandpa is innocent EVEN THOUGH no one in the family has seen the video. He says that they don't want to watch the video because, deep down, they know it will show them the truth, that the grandpa was negligent with the child and they don't want to face the truth. Both the puppet guy and the host seem quite angry at the whole situation and the fact that the family refuses to admit responsibility."

Sounds about right to me. With the possible exception of" her hand gripping the frame", which could be a translation error since her hand can be seen through the window pane, of the partially closed portion...

 

[Pak31]

The girl's mother is Kimberly Wiegand, who used to be a deputy prosecutor for St. Joseph County. Her father is Officer Alan Wiegand with the South Bend Police Department.
Family's worst nightmare: Toddler of South Bend officer falls to her death on cruise ship

I know you quoted from the article so this isn’t directed at you, just making a clarification. Alan Wiegand is Kim's husband. He’s not her father. The writer was incorrect. Her husband is the police officer. Her father isn’t mentioned anywhere as far as I know. Not sure if he’s still alive or deceased. Her stepfather is Salvatore Anello.

 

[Arkay]

I know you quoted from the article so this isn’t directed at you, just making a clarification. Alan Wiegand is Kim's husband. He’s not her father. The writer was incorrect. Her husband is the police officer. Her father isn’t mentioned anywhere as far as I know. Not sure if he’s still alive or deceased. Her stepfather is Salvatore Anello.

I believe the article is referencing that he's Chloe's father, not Kimberly's. It says "the girl's mother is KW" and then "her father is officer AW."

Off topic and hope I'm not mod snipped but just have to say to South Aussie and They'll Get You..I'm watching the news in Australia about these awful wildfires all across Australia along with the heat wave, and people living on the beach to escape. I'm vastly ignorant of Australia's geography but I hope you and your families are safe.

 

[Pak31]

IMHO he went to that open window to do precisely what he did.

I totally agree. Although he WAS following Chloe. Didn’t she head in that direction first? Then he got up and followed her? Although, IMO, he didn’t seem to be attending to her at that moment as he went right to the window and stuck half his body out of it. To me it looked like Chloe was over to his right a bit because he went over that way to get her. I’m still processing him hanging so far out the window at first. If ALL the windows had glass on them, as he allegedly assumed, then why wouldn’t he hesitate before sticking his head outside it? If there WAS glass then he would have seriously whacked his head hard on it. Did he seriously think that THAT window was set deeper out from all the others? No. His story is bogus and makes no sense. Even when Winkleman said it’s the same thing as when you don’t see the glass on a door then you walk into it. His comparison is the exact opposite of what occurred. He thinks the public are gullible fools.

 

[Safeguard]

South Aussie and They'll Get You..I'm watching the news in Australia about these awful wildfires all across Australia along with the heat wave, and people living on the beach to escape. I'm vastly ignorant of Australia's geography but I hope you and your families are

+1000!

 

[Pak31]

I believe the article is referencing that he's Chloe's father, not Kimberley's. It says " the girl's mother is KW" and then "her father is officer AW."
Off topic and hope I'm not mod snipped but just have to say to South Aussie and They'll Get You..I'm watching the news in Australia about these awful wildfires all across Australia along with the heat wave, and people living on the beach to escape. I'm vastly ignorant of Australia's geography but I hope you and your families are safe.

OH!!! I’m sorry. I was reading it as Kimberly’s father. Smh. See how we interpret written things? Lol. Oops. My apologies to you Arkay

 

[Chikkamma]

There was a good translated description I found elsewhere:

"I just watched the La Comay video. I can understand spanish as my family and DHs are Puerto Rican.

The commentary, essentially, is along the same lines as the prevailing thought here. In general, the hosts do not believe the story being given by the grandfather and the lawyer at ALL. They were quite scathing in their criticism towards the actions of the grandfather, saying it is very clear that he was OUT the window and that the child could not have possibly been in a position to fall outside the window if the grandpa had not purposely held her out of it. They also made some passing comments about how he "appears to be about 80, but is only 51, can you believe that?" They said that he had to feel the wind, hear the sounds and that there is no plausible way he didn't know the window was open. Essentially, they dump all over his claim by pointing out how far he is leaning out and that 18" would mean, at the angle he was leaning, his head would have smashed into the window, at the very least.

Later, they comment that he does BOTH things: perches her on the railing AND holds he out the actual window (he does this first, then brings her back in, sits her on the railing, adjusts his hold on her, then picks her up again to place her forward over the windowsill where it is clear (by her hand gripping the window frame) that her upper body is OUT the window, leaning forward. They also comment how there is a lapse in the time between the child disappearing from view and him collapsing. They wonder whether he just "couldn't believe what he was seeing" as an explanation for the delay, and say that they can't imagine he purposely watched her fall all the way to the ground before reacting, but that it was a bit of an odd reaction.

Finally the puppet guy makes some statements that this was not a blood relative, he was a step grandpa. He says it seems that the "pain" being experienced by the family does not seem to jive with their behavior in the immediate PR and lawsuits filed, and their insistence that the grandpa is innocent EVEN THOUGH no one in the family has seen the video. He says that they don't want to watch the video because, deep down, they know it will show them the truth, that the grandpa was negligent with the child and they don't want to face the truth. Both the puppet guy and the host seem quite angry at the whole situation and the fact that the family refuses to admit responsibility."

Sounds about right to me. With the possible exception of" her hand gripping the frame", which could be a translation error since her hand can be seen through the window pane, of the partially closed portion...

The translation you posted was from a different La Comay episode - not the one I posted earlier today.

In the 12/23/19 episode I posted earlier today, Santarrosa (the puppet) says some new things not in the previous episodes. Will translate the important parts in a separate post.

 

[Arkay]

OH!!! I’m sorry. I was reading it as Kimberly’s father. Smh. See how we interpret written things? Lol. Oops. My apologies to you Arkay

Absolutely no apology necessary! It's an occupational hazard of mine since I taught 8th grade English for 26 years.
Also, KW's actual father is named Scott Schultz. He is alive and as of yet, I haven't heard anything that he or his wife, (not the mother of KW), have said regarding this tragedy.

 

[Chikkamma]

Could somebody translate what the ophtalmologist said? My spanish is apparently only good enough to order a paella
Thanks in advance!
ETA only roughly, I don't expect any surprises

The ophthalmologist is Dr. Vanessa Lopez-Beauchamp. She was interviewed in the 12/23/19 La Comay episode I posted earlier today. She states that being colorblind will not affect a person’s ability to tell if a window is open or not. There is no basis to this claim.

She is a board-certified ophthalmologist.

 

[whatsnext]

The ophthalmologist in the 12/23/19 La Comay episode I posted earlier today says that being colorblind will not affect a person’s ability to tell if a window is open. There is no basis to this claim.

She is a board-certified ophthalmologist.

Thank you very much, chikkamma, I had a feeling she said just that

 

[LietKynes]

Absolutely no apology necessary! It's an occupational hazard of mine since I taught 8th grade English for 26 years.
Also, KW's actual father is named Scott Schultz. He is alive and as of yet, I haven't heard anything that he or his wife, (not the mother of KW), have said regarding this tragedy.

bbm
Thanks for the update.^^^

I can't imagine what family conversations about what SA did to Chloe are like, with the husbands' parents.
Toe-curling, I bet.

I want to be sympathetic to all of them except S.A, but with the lawsuit and the description of the mother at the pressers from the last thread (wearing inappropriate bright red lipstick and colored her hair for it-- like she's getting ready to try the case of her life against the evil RCCL) it's challenging.
Doesn't seem like grief but more like anger and blaming the wrong party.
For god's sakes, go home and stay out of the public eye, and take care of your surviving son.
Hard to figure these people out.
Imo.

 

[neesaki]

There was a good translated description I found elsewhere:

"I just watched the La Comay video. I can understand spanish as my family and DHs are Puerto Rican.

The commentary, essentially, is along the same lines as the prevailing thought here. In general, the hosts do not believe the story being given by the grandfather and the lawyer at ALL. They were quite scathing in their criticism towards the actions of the grandfather, saying it is very clear that he was OUT the window and that the child could not have possibly been in a position to fall outside the window if the grandpa had not purposely held her out of it. They also made some passing comments about how he "appears to be about 80, but is only 51, can you believe that?" They said that he had to feel the wind, hear the sounds and that there is no plausible way he didn't know the window was open. Essentially, they dump all over his claim by pointing out how far he is leaning out and that 18" would mean, at the angle he was leaning, his head would have smashed into the window, at the very least.

Later, they comment that he does BOTH things: perches her on the railing AND holds he out the actual window (he does this first, then brings her back in, sits her on the railing, adjusts his hold on her, then picks her up again to place her forward over the windowsill where it is clear (by her hand gripping the window frame) that her upper body is OUT the window, leaning forward. They also comment how there is a lapse in the time between the child disappearing from view and him collapsing. They wonder whether he just "couldn't believe what he was seeing" as an explanation for the delay, and say that they can't imagine he purposely watched her fall all the way to the ground before reacting, but that it was a bit of an odd reaction.

Finally the puppet guy makes some statements that this was not a blood relative, he was a step grandpa. He says it seems that the "pain" being experienced by the family does not seem to jive with their behavior in the immediate PR and lawsuits filed, and their insistence that the grandpa is innocent EVEN THOUGH no one in the family has seen the video. He says that they don't want to watch the video because, deep down, they know it will show them the truth, that the grandpa was negligent with the child and they don't want to face the truth. Both the puppet guy and the host seem quite angry at the whole situation and the fact that the family refuses to admit responsibility."

Sounds about right to me. With the possible exception of" her hand gripping the frame", which could be a translation error since her hand can be seen through the window pane, of the partially closed portion...

Thank you for the translation. I'm wondering what the ophthalmologist said about color blindness.

ETA: nevermind, just read @Chikkamma's post. Thank you!

 

[LietKynes]

Our friend's dad is in his 70's and he and his wife go on a cruise every 3 years or so. He has to coax his wife as she's nervous on boats. Any boats.
But he's also color blind and knows about Chloe's death and the case in general.
He'd be the first to tell you that there's no way S.A couldn't tell the difference between an open and closed window.
And even at 70 + years he's not 'elderly' in the sense that he has his faculties and common sense.
S.A. should never have been tasked with Chloe's care since her parents had known him for years and his disregard for any rules.

Why shouldn't he speed and not wear his seat belt ? The laws don't apply to him.
And if he wants to dangle a toddler outside a window-- he's going to do it and show everyone that if something happens --it's not his fault.

Just like the law enforcement who were persecuting him for breaking traffic laws.
A picture of S.A. has emerged throughout this heinous act and it's not a pretty one.

 

[Chikkamma]

Next few posts are in reference to the 12/23/19 La Comay episode (linked below).
#1. Santarrosa says when Chloe starts walking towards the windows from the pool area, SA stops her for some reason and that’s when he squats down by the pillar. While he’s squatting, SA turns his head to the window and looks at a man who is already at the window. He’s basically saying that SA was waiting for his turn to get to the window. He stopped Chloe just as the other man is seen walking to the window. And right after that man leaves is when SA gets up and goes to the window.

 

[LietKynes]

@Chikkamma ; This sounds so premeditated.

 

[Chikkamma]

@Chikkamma ; This sounds so premeditated.

Wait till you hear the rest of what he says... writing it up now (in between errands!)