IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #5

[katydid23]

original CBS interview.

At 2:50 where he states "I had her, and I was trying to knock on the glass and at that point, I'm like well I'm going to have to lean further for her to be able to reach it, right, 'cause I thought it was further out than I expected ...I think that's the point she slipped out of me".
[/MEDIA]

Right there ^^^ he admits to negligently pushing her out of the window...

"I had her, and I was trying to knock on the glass and at that point, I'm like well I'm going to have to lean further for her to be able to reach it..."

So this tiny vulnerable baby is in front of him, sitting on the ledge of an open window, 120 feet in the air...and he leans his massive bulk against her from behind, literally shoving her forward and off of the ledge.

What is he? Like 290 lbs to her 17 lbs? And he leans his 300 lbs forward to reach for invisible glass, what did he think was going to happen to his little grand baby, as he did so?


ETA: When he says at that point, 'she slipped' away from him....

TRANSLATION= at that point, as he was pushing forward and reaching , she slipped OFF OF THE LEDGE.

That's ^^^ the reason he couldn't hold on to her anymore, imo. He had one arm around her as she was nestled on the ledge. So it was easy to 'hold' her weight.

But when he shoved forward she slid off the perch, and he could no longer hold her weight with one arm, given gravity and his awkward stance.

Negligent Homicide, imo.

 

[Chikkamma]

One normal response to a child falling like this would be to immediately cry out for someone to help her, as opposed to reacting as immediately accepting that she was beyond help. Even when someone is dead and beyond help, you still find yourself trying to save the person. I think it's a common phenomenon. And can even be seen in some forms in the days following a tragedy.

In this case falling on the floor was probably partly shock and emotional collapse, but is there also a measure of self-protection? You can't fall out a window if you're on the floor... just after you've been leaning your body and your grandchild's all the way over and out of the window and seen how very far down it is to the ground.

SA's reaction is in contrast to Chloe's 10-year-old dear brother whose first thought was to go out the window after her to save her.

The video is so damning and as we suspected all along, shockingly worse than we ever thought. But still way worse. An early article in DM stated that the prosecutors were considering all possible charges including murder and it's not hard to see why.

I hope you saw the 2 female prosecutors answering the question about the plea. They aren't buying any of these excuses. But still if a plea doesn't happen, then taking my cues from the above posters, maybe he'll just get 3 to 6 months. And maybe this story is not going to go away for a very, very long time but will resurface with this trial, later his release, aftermath, more publicity to try to honor Chloe, when IMO to honor her most would have been completely different than what's happening. But they're her parents/family so they're going to do what they think is best.

I just wish this story would finally rest in peace. It's so awful. There have been other horrific stories similar to this, but nothing I can think of has ever been so drawn out like this one unless it was an unsolved crime. This one is going to continue to be in the news for at least a full year and maybe more depending on whether someone writes a book / more tv appearances / etc.

I sympathize with the parents and family for this terrible loss but since they're human and they're also good parents, they're going to have overwhelming anger SA for life, and probably a lot of them are getting or will eventually get therapy to help them through this. It must be so hard. And IMO they are victims here despite the lawsuit, etc., they are victims of what this man did.

bbm. SA’s immediate acceptance that Chloe was dead and beyond help is profoundly disturbing to me. The lack of reports about him screaming for help (or for someone to help Chloe) after the accident indicates that he had already accepted her death. This is absolutely not a normal reaction to a loved one’s sudden and violent death. The mind is not wired to readily accept such grim realities when they are truly unexpected... which begs the obvious question.

 

[beatrixpotter]

bbm. SA’s immediate acceptance that Chloe was dead and beyond help is profoundly disturbing to me. The lack of reports about him screaming for help (or for someone to help Chloe) after the accident indicates that he had already accepted her death. This is absolutely not a normal reaction to a loved one’s sudden and violent death. The mind is not wired to readily accept such grim realities when they are truly unexpected... which begs the obvious question.

That was something that always struck me as odd too. No shouting, no pleas for help. Just quietly collapsing on the floor? I still feel like there is an awfully large gap in time from the time he puts her above his up on the window ledge and when he collapses on the floor.

 

[Kakidoll]

bbm

I'm not a betting person.... but how much would you wager he won't ????
They cannot let the lawsuit and hoped-for monies slip away after all of their hard efforts.

I totally agree... and had it not been for all the fundraisers, even for the son, and the talk about money within the first few DAYS after this happened, i'd have a completely different view.

Its not like they didn't have the money to fly home etc. It was even PAID FOR by the Cruiseline, from what i understand. They are double/Tripple dipping into the pot, or at least trying to. Not a good look for a grieving family of professionals.

 

[Safeguard]

bbm. SA’s immediate acceptance that Chloe was dead and beyond help is profoundly disturbing to me. The lack of reports about him screaming for help (or for someone to help Chloe) after the accident indicates that he had already accepted her death. This is absolutely not a normal reaction to a loved one’s sudden and violent death. The mind is not wired to readily accept such grim realities when they are truly unexpected... which begs the obvious question.

The lack of reports about him screaming for help (or for someone to help Chloe) after the accident indicates that he had already accepted her death. This is absolutely not a normal reaction to a loved one’s sudden and violent death[/B].

Omg! You're right! There are definitely rules about sudden violent death!
Rule #1 is "scream for help for the obviously deceased victim".

That must mean the parents were in on it too! Because they didn't scream for anyone to help Chloe either! They also just collapsed after looking down those 150 feet!

In fact, nobody on board screamed for help! They were all in on it! Maybe she was a cult sacrifice...

 

[al66pine]

DailyMail July 9 Headline, Family & Ship pix, Supplied by??? ?
@SouthAussie A good reminder for us, w two interesting points.

----- Headline July 9: "We Haven't Ruled Out Murder" per LE.
IIRC, early on some posters said: accident, could not be a crime.

----Photo Credits, printed within image and most showing copyright symbol.
- Several state, fam pix, Supplied.--Any ideas other than law firm, who got from KSW & AW?
- Two state Today Show. Booked? < 48 hrs after death. Somebody was on the ball. Law firm?
- One or two, fam pix, show Facebook.
- One shows Chris Bolt for Daily Mail.
- Window pic at night, caption say Chloe's Father took after her fall.
Police investigating death of Indiana tot who fell from cruise ship have not ruled out murder | Daily Mail Online

Yes, I think they have seen the videos as well.
Last night I had gone back to look at old articles as I had been reading back, and saw so many things that are not mentioned any more in MSM. I wanted to see where those things came from.
I noticed that the family were seeking the videos very early on, before they left PR on the Thursday following the tragedy.
Winkleman said one of his associates was in contact with the company.
He wants it to release surveillance footage of the incident to the family.

Police investigating death of Indiana tot who fell from cruise ship have not ruled out murder | Daily Mail Online

 

[SouthAussie]

What I think might have happened is that in the immediate aftermath of this tragedy, SA's wife broke down. Perhaps telling her daughter that SA just couldn't go to prison for this ... he was stupid/reckless/tipsy/irresponsible/tired/whatever but he never would have harmed Chloe intentionally for anything.

So they had a think about it, called in a lawyer, and quickly got the ball rolling with pointing the finger at Royal Caribbean.

As so many say, and I agree, a hasty lawsuit filing and pointing the finger elsewhere seems very wrong. But it may be a protective action from Chloe's mum for her own mother.

Because other than protecting her own mother, I can't think of any other reason for Chloe's mum to defend the negligent killer of her little girl .... to create a whole other story than the one SA initially told the police "I lost my grip while holding her outside the window".


Police initially said Salvatore Anello told officers he lost his grip while holding the girl outside the window on the 11th deck, the Associated Press reported.
Grandfather of girl who fell from cruise ship, Chloe Wiegand, speaks

 

[Arkay]

I just first looked at the fundraiser the parents had initiated for their son to play hockey abroad. I have to say I found it disturbing, because it's such a first-world "problem," they have professional careers, and it just seemed like begging for money for something luxurious. You know, maybe don't spend money on a cruise, and use that to sponsor your son's trip yourselves.

However, IMO the lawsuit against RCCL is instigated by the lawyer and as I've said before, is really a way to find a target for blame other than SA. It's too emotionally anguishing to have to face the fact that SA is completely at fault. If I were SA I could not carry on. If I were Kim's mother, married to SA, I would divorce him because I would never be able to look at him again. Without a doubt, the lawyer is doing his job, disgusting though it may be, and the parents feel that Royal Caribbean took away their daughter and they will make them pay.

However, IMO, while the video proves SA was lying, and it is 100% negligence and recklessness on his part, I do not at all think it is murder. I know the prosecutors in PR know more than we do, and they say all different charges are being considered, but that's because they are holding everything close to the vest. As an outsider looking in, I don't see anything that suggests intent. Just stupidity and a sense of arrogance based on his reckless history. That he was for damn sure going to give Chloe a thrill, ignoring the barrier, the height, the OPEN window. But I do not see murder. What would be the motive? She wasn't leaving him money in her will. She wasn't leaving him a life insurance policy. She wasn't a burden because he wasn't raising her. They didn't live with Chloe so she wasn't taking away his wife's attention. What would he gain? Why do it in a place where thousands of people might have noticed?

As for him collapsing and not asking for help, thank God I'm not in his situation. If he's telling the truth that he saw her fall all the way, he would know it was hopeless. I think I would have been screaming for someone below to catch her. I think I might have desperately tried to dive out the window just to catch her myself. I really don't know. I might have just collapsed, too.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

I just first looked at the fundraiser the parents had initiated for their son to play hockey abroad. I have to say I found it disturbing, because it's such a first-world "problem," they have professional careers, and it just seemed like begging for money for something luxurious. You know, maybe don't spend money on a cruise, and use that to sponsor your son's trip yourselves.

However, IMO the lawsuit against RCCL is instigated by the lawyer and as I've said before, is really a way to find a target for blame other than SA. It's too emotionally anguishing to have to face the fact that SA is completely at fault. If I were SA I could not carry on. If I were Kim's mother, married to SA, I would divorce him because I would never be able to look at him again. Without a doubt, the lawyer is doing his job, disgusting though it may be, and the parents feel that Royal Caribbean took away their daughter and they will make them pay.

However, IMO, while the video proves SA was lying, and it is 100% negligence and recklessness on his part, I do not at all think it is murder. I know the prosecutors in PR know more than we do, and they say all different charges are being considered, but that's because they are holding everything close to the vest. As an outsider looking in, I don't see anything that suggests intent. Just stupidity and a sense of arrogance based on his reckless history. That he was for damn sure going to give Chloe a thrill, ignoring the barrier, the height, the OPEN window. But I do not see murder. What would be the motive? She wasn't leaving him money in her will. She wasn't leaving him a life insurance policy. She wasn't a burden because he wasn't raising her. They didn't live with Chloe so she wasn't taking away his wife's attention. What would he gain? Why do it in a place where thousands of people might have noticed?

As for him collapsing and not asking for help, thank God I'm not in his situation. If he's telling the truth that he saw her fall all the way, he would know it was hopeless. I think I would have been screaming for someone below to catch her. I think I might have desperately tried to dive out the window just to catch her myself. I really don't know. I might have just collapsed, too.

BBM That is just such a strange idea. First, that after so tragically losing their daughter, taking a chance like that with their son going overseas at his age. I wouldn't be able to do that, JMOO. And then, expecting the general public to fund such a thing?? Ummmm, no. Does not look so good. I do not understand these people at all.

 

[Arkay]

BBM That is just such a strange idea. First, that after so tragically losing their daughter, taking a chance like that with their son going overseas at his age. I wouldn't be able to do that, JMOO. And then, expecting the general public to fund such a thing?? Ummmm, no. Does not look so good. I do not understand these people at all.

From what I saw, the fundraiser was in March, 2019. Chloe died July, 2019. This was before her death, but still IMO a grasping thing to request. There are legitimate fundraisers out there for people in tragic situations. I think the fact that they turned to *** for something highly privileged is coloring the way people view their lawsuit against RCCL.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

What I think might have happened is that in the immediate aftermath of this tragedy, SA's wife broke down. Perhaps telling her daughter that SA just couldn't go to prison for this ... he was stupid/reckless/tipsy/irresponsible/tired/whatever but he never would have harmed Chloe intentionally for anything.

So they had a think about it, called in a lawyer, and quickly got the ball rolling with pointing the finger at Royal Caribbean.

As so many say, and I agree, a hasty lawsuit filing and pointing the finger elsewhere seems very wrong. But it may be a protective action from Chloe's mum for her own mother.

Because other than protecting her own mother, I can't think of any other reason for Chloe's mum to defend the negligent killer of her little girl .... to create a whole other story than the one SA initially told the police "I lost my grip while holding her outside the window".


Police initially said Salvatore Anello told officers he lost his grip while holding the girl outside the window on the 11th deck, the Associated Press reported.
Grandfather of girl who fell from cruise ship, Chloe Wiegand, speaks

Why the heck was he even holding her out the window??????????

 

[neesaki]

That was something that always struck me as odd too. No shouting, no pleas for help. Just quietly collapsing on the floor? I still feel like there is an awfully large gap in time from the time he puts her above his up on the window ledge and when he collapses on the floor.

ITA, this whole thing stinks to high heaven.

 

[SouthAussie]

From what I saw, the fundraiser was in March, 2019. Chloe died July, 2019. This was before her death, but still IMO a grasping thing to request. There are legitimate fundraisers out there for people in tragic situations. I think the fact that they turned to *** for something highly privileged is coloring the way people view their lawsuit against RCCL.

I know one or two people who have absolutely no problem letting everyone else pay for anything and everything.
I could give you examples ... but I think we likely all know some of that kind of person.

 

[katydid23]

never mind, this fund raiser was started before the tragic death...

 

[neesaki]

Why the heck was he even holding her out the window??????????

Exactly! It’s incomprehensible and indefensible. Period.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Why the heck was he even holding her out the window??????????

I hope they demand an answer to that in court.

 

[mickey2942]

Question for people who don't think that SA should be charged with negligent homicide...can anyone explain to me, why a man would lift a child over a guardrail, hold her outside of a window, 11 stories up?

Especially, as seen in the video, that SA deliberately placed his entire head out of the exact window prior to when he picked up Chloe, and lifted her over the guardrail, outside of an open window.

Please provide an explanation for this inexplicable behavior to me.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Question for people who don't think that SA should be charged with negligent homicide...can anyone explain to me, why a man would lift a child over a guardrail, hold her outside of a window, 11 stories up?

Especially, as seen in the video, that SA deliberately placed his entire head out of the exact window prior to when he picked up Chloe, and lifted her over the guardrail, outside of an open window.

Please provide an explanation for this inexplicable behavior to me.

And I would like to know why...SA is on this family cruise, all kinds of things to see and do, he's babysitting his little "best friend"...makes a beeline to the only open window and of all things, finds it necessary to "knock on the glass? Really? Eleven stories up. Knock on glass. I just do not get it.

 

[SouthAussie]

DailyMail July 9 Headline, Family & Ship pix, Supplied by??? ?

----Photo Credits, printed within image and most showing copyright symbol.

- Window pic at night, caption say Chloe's Father took after her fall.
Police investigating death of Indiana tot who fell from cruise ship have not ruled out murder | Daily Mail Online

Interesting. And I'd say he took that pic of the open window on the same night, as there is still a crime scene all set up.

Possibly with their legal and police backgrounds, they were already gathering evidence? Before anything changed. Sort of like people do after a horrendous car crash.

 

[al66pine]

Screams & Witnesses
DailyMail July 9 reported Chloe let out a "blood curdling scream" as she fell, "according to witnesses."*
Who would hear screams of toddler falling from ship? Ppl on Deck 11, where SA was? Or ppl on the ground, some waiting to board, some loading cargo? Or???

And if heard by ppl on ground, are they the "outside witnesses" LE or the prosecutor referred to, saying they had both inside and outside witnesses?

Police investigating death of Indiana tot who fell from cruise ship have not ruled out murder | Daily Mail Online July 9