IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #6

[fabvab]

My husband has plenty of pics with grandkids, he has literally never taken care of one for longer than half a minute, if that.

My husband is a great guy, was a great Dad, but he looks at a 1 year old baby, fist bumps him, and asks him, "What's up, Bud?".

My hubby, a great guy and dad, has never watched our granddaughter (his step-granddaughter) by himself even though she stays with us for weeks at a time because she lives out of state. I am surprised that SA's wife or Chloe's dad were not with him when he watched Chloe. No offense to any of you guys!

 

[Lawnguylander1964]

Interesting cover story in Costco Connection about cruising with two elementary/middle schoolish children on the cover. They don't discuss safety and/or cruising with babies/infants/toddlers, just children who can have autonomy on the ship.

The Costco Connection - January 2020 - page37

 

[KR72]

No offense to anyone here intended but many men provide care to children and even young children. Men 50 ish and under especially.

Also, I don't think whether SA had children or not has anything to do with tragedy. I'm positive that people without children would never dream of holding a child up to and outside of an open window 11 stories up!

Parent himself or not, SA is an idiot and a risk taker, and this time his risk turned tragic, and many children who die in accidents do so under the watch of their own parent (s).

There was just a tragedy in Canada because a father took his 10 year old son out on an ATV on Christmas Day. They went over a small pond that was only partially frozen and they fell through the ice. The child died when he became submerged under water and trapped under the ATV. Apparently the pair went out on the ATV all the time and this time the father's negligence and risk taking behaviour caused the death of his own child.

 

[Forever Young]

Yes I think she is 62 I going on info on White pages, Spokeo when I looked them up.
I can understand KW being very fond of him and maybe she truly believes this window story but surely other members of the family like bio grand and paternal family members must be furious. I'm guessing they don't want to rock the boat.

I thought so. A lot of the time, I can get a general age range from the first name. Names come and go in popularity, and I thought by her first name she was a 1950s baby. Lots of "Patty"s in that age group and hardly any from the 1960s, in my experience and opinion only!

 

[JohnnyChicago]

<modsnip>
Makes my stomach turn. Why someone would think that was a good idea is so beyond me. I am sometimes worried that my keys will fall off my chain into a sewer cap or street drain....or my shoelace will get caught in the escalator (Well not anymore, I wear zip up engineer boots now) The very thought of holding a baby scares me. I'd worry too much about the fontanel.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Interesting cover story in Costco Connection about cruising with two elementary/middle schoolish children on the cover. They don't discuss safety and/or cruising with babies/infants/toddlers, just children who can have autonomy on the ship.

The Costco Connection - January 2020 - page37

Thanks for sharing. We don't get a hard copy of the Costco magazine any more so I usually don't bother to read it online. I was more apt to read it when it came in the mail.

Based on my long history of cruising, I would never recommend cruising with an infant or toddler. I'm not even sure about a 3-year-old who is usually toilet-trained and eligible for supervised group activities in the youth facilities on most cruise ships. We took our daughter on a couple of cruises when she was in elementary school, but there was very little programming for children and few of them onboard. DD preferred our annual trips to WDW.

Cruising with children/teens is much different now, and there is plenty for elementary/middle school youngsters to do in dedicated facilities with capable, trained staff. While we see few children on our winter cruises, parents of youngsters onboard have the utmost praise for youth facilities and programming.

 

[fabvab]

No offense to anyone here intended but many men provide care to children and even young children. Men 50 ish and under especially.

Also, I don't think whether SA had children or not has anything to do with tragedy. I'm positive that people without children would never dream of holding a child up to and outside of an open window 11 stories up!

Parent himself or not, SA is an idiot and a risk taker, and this time his risk turned tragic, and many children who die in accidents do so under the watch of their own parent (s).

There was just a tragedy in Canada because a father took his 10 year old son out on an ATV on Christmas Day. They went over a small pond that was only partially frozen and they fell through the ice. The child died when he became submerged under water and trapped under the ATV. Apparently the pair went out on the ATV all the time and this time the father's negligence and risk taking behaviour caused the death of his own child.

Yes, I agree that there are men who are very good caretakers of children and do better than some women. After watching SA interact with Chloe before they even went to the window (letting her toddle into the bar area ahead of him) makes me believe that he should not have been left alone to be responsible for her.

 

[mickey2942]

Interesting cover story in Costco Connection about cruising with two elementary/middle schoolish children on the cover. They don't discuss safety and/or cruising with babies/infants/toddlers, just children who can have autonomy on the ship.

The Costco Connection - January 2020 - page37

Older kids, teens, yeeeeessss...within reason. There are a lot of predators on cruise ships, same as anywhere else. You can't just let them go for three or four days, unchecked.

Younger kids, you can check them in for "kids club", for fees. Babies? Nope. You are stuck.

 

[fabvab]

It crossed my mind that SA could be on the autism spectrum or have deficits in Social and Emotional Learning (SEL, see definition below) when this story first came out.

Social and emotional learning (SEL) is the process through which children and adults understand and manage emotions, set and achieve positive goals, feel and show empathy for others, establish and maintain positive relationships, and make responsible decisions. What is SEL?

 

[Pigey]

Perhaps that's why he married someone older. She could take care of him.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Never mind.....

 

[Chikkamma]

Don't forget, though, it was the window that caused it, not SA. IMO, have really got the impression that SA was less than forthcoming with the parents that afternoon and in the hours that followed. Remember KW stating he was beating on the windows when she arrived at the scene? Window's fault.

I think the window should get life without parole.

 

[Forever Young]

I think the window should get life without parole.

Yes, after a good beating.

 

[Forever Young]

It crossed my mind that SA could be on the autism spectrum or have deficits in Social and Emotional Learning (SEL, see definition below) when this story first came out.

Social and emotional learning (SEL) is the process through which children and adults understand and manage emotions, set and achieve positive goals, feel and show empathy for others, establish and maintain positive relationships, and make responsible decisions. What is SEL?

How about What is IQ? I always think of the old joke: "President Dwight Eisenhower expressed shock when hearing that half the population of the U. S. is below average IQ".

 

[IceIce9]

If she has any type of red marks, even faint ones, consistent with the window ledge, it will show in the autopsy.

Was an autopsy done?

 

[al66pine]

If SA Takes the Stand in Crim Case?

I am going to go out on a limb and say there's No chance he takes the stand in the trial....

@SoCalDavidS Just looking at the underlying assumption and leaving question od possible use of his crim trial testimony for another post. *advertiser censored*uming PR crim trial is held first, will SA testify? Thinking/typing aloud here.

In case in chief, PR prosecutor puts on evd. including vids from various angles, testimony from multiple shipboard witnesses, such as passengers & staff, about what they saw SA do & what they heard him say on Deck 11 and from other "outside witnesses" for ex, LEOs & any EMTs who communicated w him after he dropped her, and any witnesses on the dock who saw her being held in mid-air, et al.
If the vids we've seen (and possibly other vids which we've not seen) are as clearly incriminating - w SA's head past the window - as many here believe, prosecutor has a compelling case.

If def atty does not put on any defense, no witnesses, no evd; def atty can just try to poke holes in PR's evd in cross exam and in closing argument.

One poss def, def atty can try to show 'window defects' in design, construction, installation, etc. Would need expert witness(es) re marine architecture, etc. If def plans use this defense, IIUC, def has to give notice to PR, then PR would engage an expert to testify. Technical testimony is often complicated or boring for jury to follow. Or both. Expensive.

In defense case, if SA testifies, he says he Thought-There-Was-Glass. On cross-exam, PR prosecutor asks him about one-by-one his other stmts: several which vary from and/or directly contradict his own TTWG testimony, other 'reasons' / 'excuses' given at various times - colorblindness, etc.

For ea 'reason' /'excuse' stmt he made pre-trial, SA must either -
- deny making the stmt, i.e., essentially saying the person testifying about SA's earlier stmt is not telling the truth or misheard SA, then ditto for other stmt about another 'reason,' so one -by-one, essentially calling several witnesses liars, or
- admit making the stmt, so as Prosecutor asks about three, four, or five of these stmts, SA is essentially admitting that he's come up w a string of excuses, most or all of which sound pretty flimsy.

I wonder if prosecutor will call Begnaud as witness to testify - at least to lay the foundation - about the CBS interview vid in which SA graphically "reenacted" how he held Chloe. And perhaps other vids which were not aired. What will jury think - comparing vids of SA's 'reenactment' in interview against vids of his actual actions?

Looking only at SA's own interest (pursuing a not-guilty verdict), how much upside is there for SA to testify in crim case? Would it be helpful to him? Doubtful imo.

And using his testimony in civil case? Difficult to see that as beneficial to KSW & AW, imo.

 

[Forever Young]

Perhaps that's why he married someone older. She could take care of him.

In the Today Show interview, KW tells Savannah Guthrie "I know my mom was asking people "why on earth is there a window open on the 11th floor, without a screen or anything?" I thought the grandmother went into covering for SA right away.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

In the Today Show interview, KW tells Savannah Guthrie "I know my mom was asking people "why on earth is there a window open on the 11th floor, without a screen or anything?" I thought the grandmother went into covering for SA right away.

This comment was what convinced me that the family members had never been on a cruise previously. If they had, they would have known about the open configuration of upper decks of the ship that have windows that open for ventilation.

 

[neesaki]

I think the window should get life without parole.

Good one ... and then there’s this: Chloe’s at fault for SA putting her out the window.... as suggested by Winkleman. Utterly disgusting isn’t it?

 

[neesaki]

In the Today Show interview, KW tells Savannah Guthrie "I know my mom was asking people "why on earth is there a window open on the 11th floor, without a screen or anything?" I thought the grandmother went into covering for SA right away.

Bizarre.... It’s as though they thought they were in a shopping mall instead of on a Cruise ship. What about all the open decks with nothing but railing between them and the ocean? The only reason this deck 11 had windows is... I believe.... because it provided a covered area for shade and the bar. Without windows it would become somewhat of a steamy sauna type environment wouldn’t it. My, wouldn’t that be pleasant?