IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #6

[SaguaroSpirit]

But 2 doesn’t make sense because no way mom would leave him in charge. 1 doesn’t make sense either. He works full time. If he had diminished mental capacity we would have heard that. And mom wouldn’t have left him in charge.
So that leaves 3.....

BBM That made me go "huh?" from the start. All those other relatives on the cruise, including Chloe's own FATHER. *smh*

 

[al66pine]

PR Crim Case vs. SA. Expert Witness. Argue? RCCL's Role?
@Forever Young re bbm #1 below. Respectfully, gotta disagree w part of post. Easy to argue w experts (but not cheap). PR just needs to get its own experts, if that has not already happened. One to review the scene, another to review SA's med records, then testify to different interpretations or conclusions.

Re bbm #2 below. RCCL does not get to submit their own expert testimony (or other evd.) in crim case, at least not directly. Of course, RCCL may provide info re window design, construction, installation, and more to PR for PR's use in crim case.
jmo

According to ABC News:

Salvatore “Sam” Anello’s defense told the court that they will present experts who will analyze the scene. Those names will be provided to the court by January 17.
Anello’s defense also said that they will present his medical records and testimony from his doctor.
Grandfather charged in toddler’s fatal cruise ship fall does not want plea deal
Hard to argue with an expert witness. I suppose RCCL will be free to submit their own expert testimony.
IMO, it will be hard to disprove. The real question is whether or not color blindness removes SA's culpability for Chloe's death. That had nothing to do with her being outside that railing.

 

[Forever Young]

That makes sense. RCCL is not the ones bringing charges against SA. Rather, it is the government.

 

[al66pine]

Attorney "Track Record"
@Forever Young Yes, exactly as you posted: "According to Winkleman, though, he has a good track record with lawsuits against cruise ships.."
Emphasis on bbm. And another point about atty's (or any professionals) bragging about track records, are they also listing their less successful cases/experiences/performances? The goose eggs? jmo

IMO, and in my experience, lawyers will tend to downplay your chances of winning, and try to prepare you for losing your case. IMO, the family was told from the beginning that it would not be an easy win. According to Winkleman, though, he has a good track record with lawsuits against cruise ships.
IMO, SA will not take a plea deal, as long as the parents have an active lawsuit against RCCL.

 

[al66pine]

That makes sense. RCCL is not the ones bringing charges against SA. Rather, it is the government.

Ooooh, if only they could. (my bbm) LOL.

 

[Chikkamma]

No offense to posters here, but why are we still discussing the colorblind excuse? It won’t matter if his alleged colorblindness is “proved” or “disproved” in court because this condition does not cause people see glass when there is none. If he incorrectly assumed there was glass present (which I don’t personally believe) colorblindness is no way to blame. It is a completely baseless argument.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

No offense to posters here, but why are we still discussing the colorblind excuse? It won’t matter if his alleged colorblindness is “proved” or “disproved” in court because this condition does not cause people see glass when there is none. If he incorrectly assumed there was glass present (which I don’t personally believe) colorblindness is no way to blame. It is a completely baseless argument.

Like just about ALL of SA's arguments and explanations. Hot air and hogwash!

 

[mickey2942]

No offense to posters here, but why are we still discussing the colorblind excuse? It won’t matter if his alleged colorblindness is “proved” or “disproved” in court because this condition does not cause people see glass when there is none. If he incorrectly assumed there was glass present (which I don’t personally believe) colorblindness is no way to blame. It is a completely baseless argument.

Valid point, and acknowledged. Of more interest, is how many drinks with pink parasols and pineapple chunks did SA drink that day?

I have no doubt, that breathalyzer aside, and Winkleman's claim that SA "does not drink at all", that the Puerto Rican prosecution has already requested the print out of every single drink that SA had on the cruise.

Correct me if I am wrong...when you order a drink, even a bottle of water, it is charged on your cruise ship "card", which is the key card to your room. Even if you have purchased a "drink" pass...

 

[al66pine]

Quick Lies?
@BrownRice Or from another angle - how could a person come up w such a flimsy-sounding lie? Maybe under stress but no/little forethought?
If the earliest media reports, ~July 9 -10, were accurate (sorry no links), seems like his first stmt may have been the most accurate, ~ 'I dropped my child.' Or 'the child.'
IIRC, shortly after ^, a flimsy-sounding stmt - w ostensible excuse - emerged, then evolved & morphed..

Yes. That has been odd too. To be in SO MUCH grief and anguish, how could you so quickly lie? On the spot.

 

[they'll get you]

Was the color blindness mentioned at the very beginning of Wink doing pressers ?
I think color blindness thing came along later with “there should of been a sign”.
Geeeeez

Was the colourblindness first mentioned here on WS and it was suggested we might give them some ideas.
The cops, lawyers and the suspects have been known to read our sleuthing.

 

[they'll get you]

Valid point, and acknowledged. Of more interest, is how many drinks with pink parasols and pineapple chunks did SA drink that day?

I have no doubt, that breathalyzer aside, and Winkleman's claim that SA "does not drink at all", that the Puerto Rican prosecution has already requested the print out of every single drink that SA had on the cruise.

Correct me if I am wrong...when you order a drink, even a bottle of water, it is charged on your cruise ship "card", which is the key card to your room. Even if you have purchased a "drink" pass...

Royal Caribbean allows you to bring two bottles of wine onboard with you per stateroom. I won’t go into the further tricks people get up to.

 

[sl222]

He lied in the hope of not getting found out or in trouble - there was always a chance that he wouldn't face that, however that's not what has happened so far. I wonder if he has any idea why he did what he did or not, and how it makes any sense to him; he's the only one who knows what was in his mind.

But why did he go on tv? The only purpose was for the world to pity the distraught grandfather. It's hard for me to say this but sometimes I do now feel that the acting factor was to some extent at play in doing an interview. (I'm the one who previously got upset about posters pointing out his community theater activities, y'all. But now that idea has come to haunt me when I see clips of that video, which I find hard to even watch again because it's an orchestrated event of sorts).

All the other grandparents in the family (with the possible exception of SA's wife, who was at the press conference holding his hand) no doubt feel the exact same way we do about what happened to this darling child, x 100.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Valid point, and acknowledged. Of more interest, is how many drinks with pink parasols and pineapple chunks did SA drink that day?

I have no doubt, that breathalyzer aside, and Winkleman's claim that SA "does not drink at all", that the Puerto Rican prosecution has already requested the print out of every single drink that SA had on the cruise.

Correct me if I am wrong...when you order a drink, even a bottle of water, it is charged on your cruise ship "card", which is the key card to your room. Even if you have purchased a "drink" pass...

In one of the more recent interviews, Winkleman claimed that SA had not charged anything to his cruise card, not even a bottle of water. If true, it certainly doesn't mean that Grandpa hadn't had anything to drink. He could have had a couple of drinks during the flight to SJ earlier in the day, or the adults in the group could have all carried on the allowed one bottle of wine or bubbly per person. Any one of the adults might have also ordered liquor that was delivered to their stateroom.

 

[they'll get you]

Royal Caribbean allows its passengers to bring up to two bottles of wine per statertoom onboard their cruise on embarkation day. Each bottle of wine may be up to 750ml in size and should be brought on in your carry-on luggage.
No beer or hard liquor may be brought onboard for consumption
Do not put the wine in your checked luggage


Bringing wine on your Royal Caribbean cruise

 

[Fidobell]

CW's parents say they haven't seen the video, but I wonder whether any other family members have - such as her paternal grandparents, her biological maternal grandfather or her aunts and uncles. After all, the video is accessible to anyone who knows their way around the internet. If they have, that may explain the radio silence from the family and their lawyer since the release of the video.

Totally agree, someone in the immediate family must have watched the video and IMO you would find it impossible to, day in day out , go along with supporting SA and his fabricated story without advising Chloes parents to view the CCTV . . Of all the posters on here I havnt read one person who has said SA s version matches what is evident on the video . The silence since the video has been released is telling .
This cannot progress as it has so far . The video, despite different posters on here seeing different actions , we do all see the same thing . SA is lying about the glass , lying about where he sat Chloe and ultimately lying to her parents how Chloe came to falling from the opening .

 

[Fidobell]

He won’t get by with the colorblind excuse. Not after putting his head out the window twice.

SA must have thought CCTV did not capture his actions . No way did he think the clear evidence of his movements were recorded for all to see .
To save his own skin he frantically lied to LE , his family and anyone who in fact would listen .
Hopefully now the investigation can move towards some justice for the innocent wee girl

 

[Forever Young]

No offense to posters here, but why are we still discussing the colorblind excuse? It won’t matter if his alleged colorblindness is “proved” or “disproved” in court because this condition does not cause people see glass when there is none. If he incorrectly assumed there was glass present (which I don’t personally believe) colorblindness is no way to blame. It is a completely baseless argument.

SA claimed that he is colorblind and had been told that that may be why he did not see the glass on the CBS News interview with David Begnaud in late November.

This over 4 months after Chloe's death, and from the sequence of events, appears to be a new diagnosis.

IMO they were scrambling for some kind of tangible reason for SA lifting Chloe to an open window. I would be willing to bet that he does have a doctor's statement that color blindness can affect the ability to see dimensions.

The line of thinking, apparently, is that if there had only been glass there, no negligence could have occurred.

Hence the shrugs by Winkleman. "I set my kids up on stuff all the time," he answered, when asked about the wisdom of setting a child on a high railing, regardless if you thought there was glass there or not.

 

[Forever Young]

SA must have thought CCTV did not capture his actions . No way did he think the clear evidence of his movements were recorded for all to see .
To save his own skin he frantically lied to LE , his family and anyone who in fact would listen .
Hopefully now the investigation can move towards some justice for the innocent wee girl

He was probably hoping not, but I do believe if any of the family has viewed the video, it is SA. His narrative with David Begnaud pretty well matches up with what happens on the video - except for the part where he, for some strange reason, chooses "the one window that was open in a wall of glass".

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Hence the shrugs by Winkleman. "I set my kids up on stuff all the time," he answered, when asked about the wisdom of setting a child on a high railing, regardless if you thought there was glass there or not.

Gee, I wonder what the mother of said kids thinks about all that.

 

[Chikkamma]

SA claimed that he is colorblind and had been told that that may be why he did not see the glass on the CBS News interview with David Begnaud in late November.

This over 4 months after Chloe's death, and from the sequence of events, appears to be a new diagnosis.

IMO they were scrambling for some kind of tangible reason for SA lifting Chloe to an open window. I would be willing to bet that he does have a doctor's statement that color blindness can affect the ability to see dimensions.

The line of thinking, apparently, is that if there had only been glass there, no negligence could have occurred.

Hence the shrugs by Winkleman. "I set my kids up on stuff all the time," he answered, when asked about the wisdom of setting a child on a high railing, regardless if you thought there was glass there or not.

bbm. I understand what you are saying but I think you are giving Winkleman & Co. more strategic credit than is deserved. Yes, the colorblind excuse was brought up months later in a desperate attempt to explain’s SA’s actions. But their goal in claiming colorblindness (in a very public TV interview) was not because they thought it would he a valid defense in a court of law. It was only to sway the opinion of a layman public who may not understand what colorblindness really is.