IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #6

[they'll get you]

Do people REALLY think he murdered her?? I’m not ruling anything out, and I understand the video was shocking to see, with his callous disregard to her safety. It’s horrifying for sure! Maybe I’m naive in thinking that nobody with a shred of human decency could deliberately deliver an innocent baby to a horrific death like that...I’m just curious for those who think it was deliberate, what could possibly be the motive? And WHY are her parents backing it up, if so? I’m so confused ‍

I couldn’t grasp how Chloe fell and I gave him the benefit of the doubt about not knowing the window was open, the banging, even the colourblindness BS yadda yadda.

Until I saw the video.

Imagine the footage with proper computer enhancement.

 

[they'll get you]

Do people REALLY think he murdered her?? I’m not ruling anything out, and I understand the video was shocking to see, with his callous disregard to her safety. It’s horrifying for sure! Maybe I’m naive in thinking that nobody with a shred of human decency could deliberately deliver an innocent baby to a horrific death like that...I’m just curious for those who think it was deliberate, what could possibly be the motive? And WHY are her parents backing it up, if so? I’m so confused ‍

I still don’t believe he deliberately decided to throw her out.
But there is something seriously wrong with a 51 year old who would do something so utterly chuckleheaded stupid. His stupidity killed an innocent little baby. HIS stupidity.
Then he lied through his teeth. *+-‘% !!

 

[neesaki]

I was not able to see what others saw in terms of SA holding/tossing Chloe out the window. It doesn't mean they're wrong of course, just that I wasn't able to see SA holding Chloe outside over the concrete.

Here's the thing: SA probably wasn't aware of all the CTTV cameras the ship has but IMO Winkleman surely is. So there are several possibilities at play here (IMO); that none of the videos clearly show just how far out SA's head was and how far out he held Chloe or; it's obvious SA held her outside of the window and Winkleman is ignoring it or; SA didn't actually hold Chloe completely outside the window.

I have no idea of the truth and after watching the video numerous times I can't see her exact position other than what appears to be her on the railing.

I know most posters here have seen more than I can discern and I know that they could be right in their conclusions. It's just that I can't see it clearly. It just seems to me that if there's clear video showing SA holding uChloe out the window or tossing her out to the concrete then the DA would have lodged a charge of manslaughter rather than negligent homicide.

And I am keeping in mind that the DA has claimed they have strong evidence of negligent homicide and they may have simply decided to go with a more provable case. We've not heard more about the alleged plea bargain so right now we don't know if it ever went further than talking and into a formal offer. All MOO so please don't throw tomatoes at me because of my poor vision.

I can't say that I saw him actually “toss” Little Chloe out that window. But maybe he did, quite possible.

But I can honestly say this... that he DID know there was no glass. That he did, put his head out the window thus making it quite clear he knew there was no glass. And...that he then put baby Chloe out the window , above the window casement and into the void? Then he just dropped her. Oh. My. God.

How can anyone excuse dropping a little baby to her death. This was a grown man, FGS..... his behavior and his alone led to this baby’s death. God Help Us. It’s truly Unfathomable.

 

[al66pine]

Splash Pad 101.

... But I really don't know what a splash pad is. Can someone enlighten me, please?

@sl222 sbm
When I don't have a clue, Wiki is my friend and can be your friend too.
"A splash pad or spray pool is a recreation area, often in a public park, for water play that has little or no standing water. This is said to eliminate the need for lifeguards or other supervision, as there is little risk of drowning. Typically there are ground nozzles that spray water upwards out of the splash pad's raindeck." Much more at link below.
Splash pad - Wikipedia
{{{ETA: On RCCL Fr/Seas ship, the H20 Zone is a splash pad, with additional features that may not typically be considered part of a splash pad. Ex: I think there is a whirlpool in or close to H20 Zone. I could be wrong on that. Anyone else see whirlpool, etc. close by?}}}

A water park like "Schlitterbahn" is not a splash pad, as it is not designed for young children or non-swimmers. Has swimming pools, "lazy rivers," sometimes wave pools, etc. imo. Water park - Wikipedia

Splash Pad 201
For lotssssssss of pix & more features.
SplashPadsUSA | Residential and Commercial Splash Pads

 

[neesaki]

Do people REALLY think he murdered her?? I’m not ruling anything out, and I understand the video was shocking to see, with his callous disregard to her safety. It’s horrifying for sure! Maybe I’m naive in thinking that nobody with a shred of human decency could deliberately deliver an innocent baby to a horrific death like that...I’m just curious for those who think it was deliberate, what could possibly be the motive? And WHY are her parents backing it up, if so? I’m so confused ‍

Not totally sure, but... look around you. At all the cases where adults, parents, kill there own children. Horrible, and Tragic.

 

[they'll get you]

Splash pad according to Aunty Google.

 

[al66pine]

View attachment 223953
Splash pad according to Aunty Google.

Welcome to the family, Aunty Google. And as mentioned above, ~ 20 min ago, wiki is my bff, when I don't have a clue. And I spend a lot of time either far, far back in the cave or under a rock.

Additional benefit of doing a search w wiki --- not commercial/ not click bait. jmo

 

[neesaki]

Welcome to the family, Aunty Google. And as mentioned above, ~ 20 min ago, wiki is my bff, when I don't have a clue. And I spend a lot of time either far, far back in the cave or under a rock.

Additional benefit of doing a search w wiki --- not commercial/ not click bait. jmo

Who is Aunty google?

 

[mickey2942]

Not totally sure, but... look around you. At all the cases where adults, parents, kill there own children. Horrible, and Tragic.

Why do people kill children?
1. By accident
2. Mental Illness
3. Rage
4. Revenge
5. Money

Did I miss any? We don't know much about this situation, but we do know that the Puerto Rican DA decided to file charges against SA, in the death of Chloe. SA is 51 years old, probably has a car, a job, and manages normal activities of daily living without assistance.

Explain why a man picks up a child, places her up and over a guardrail, after double checking that the window is open? And how is RCCL in any way responsible for Chloe's death?

 

[al66pine]

SA's State of Mind?

Do people REALLY think he murdered her?? I’m not ruling anything out, and I understand the video was shocking to see, with his callous disregard to her safety. ... nobody with a shred of human decency could deliberately deliver an innocent baby to a horrific death like that...I’m just curious for those who think it was deliberate, what could possibly be the motive? ...

@Sapphire1719 sbm Agreeing w ^ bbm. Personally I'm not saying SA planned or premeditated Chloe's death. As @neesaki and others posted, look at threads in 'Spotlight on Children' to see the staggering number of children suffering life-threatening injuries or dying at the hands of those who are supposed to love and care for them.
Motives in those cases? Not always motives as we usually think of them but adult tempers colliding w ordinary toddler or pre-school behavior, which they brand as unforgivable disobedience, and somehow trigger these adults to instantly inflict serious bodily harm or cause death. Examples of toddlers actions: interrupted Mom's boyfriend's online game, ate a cupcake she was not supposed to have, would not eat vegetables on his plate, did not put shoes on quickly enough, or not fully potty-trained and soiled the bed.
Again I'm not saying SA premeditated Chloe's death. Just based on (my interp) of vids, I believe he knowingly (after he put his head outside the window frame) suspended her in mid-air outside window frame w. a 100+ ft drop. And he dropped her. I don't know why. jmo.

 

[al66pine]

QUOTE="neesaki, post: 15694096, member: 24427"]Who is Aunty google?[/QUOTE]
@neesaki It came from light hearted posts.
One poster asked what a splash pad is.
(A different poster) 'they'll get you' did a search, something like - google splash pad - and found a pic which s/he posted w the comment 'According to Aunty Google." (suggesting using google to learn about something).

Then I posted to add a suggestion about searching by using wiki, like this - wiki splash pad - to learn about something, and to get a wiki result w no click bait. Hope that explains.
---------------------------------------
Google Search - Discover How Google Search Works
Help:Contents - Wikipedia

 

[MsFacetious]

He’s probably going to take a plea deal at the eleventh hour.
I bet Wink thought the Cruise line would fold & pay them before now.
That’s the tension I see in the last family presser.
It’s not unfolding as was ( promised )predicted.
All MOO

I don't know that he will get the option of a plea deal. Defendants don't just get to decide to take one. The prosecution has to be willing to give them one. IF one is offered it often has an expiration date when it will no longer be available. Sometimes everyone will agree just before trial, of course... but it certainly shouldn't be counted on.

I was in a shopping centre and I saw a young mother sit her little baby on the black handrail of the escalator as she was going up. It was only for a moment and her arm was around baby but I’d taken some steps toward her to warn her of the danger.
I instantly thought of Chloe, I was seeing Chloe right there in my mind.
What if that baby fell? I guess stupidity walks amount us every day.

It has happened. Multiple times. It's a wonder it doesn't happen more. Stories like these so scared me that I refuse to carry children up and down the escalator. If we couldn't take the elevator I wore the child strapped to me.

These are just the 4 that are burned into my brain. I'm sure there are many more I managed to avoid seeing or hearing about.

Being dropped while coming down the escalator.
(Clear video of the fall - warning.)

Horrifying moment baby dies after mother taking selfies on a shopping centre escalator drops her | Daily Mail Online

Being dropped while stepping onto the escalator.
(Clear video of the baby going over - warning.)

Horrifying moment gran slips on escalator and drops baby to its death from 30ft

Falling from the handrail of the escalator while riding it up.
(Photo of just before, no video.)

New details in death of 3-year-old who fell from airport escalator

Getting crushed on the baggage claim.
(No photo or video.)

Death of baby Nathania Terry who was crushed in baggage carousel in Spain blamed on mother | Daily Mail Online

 

[katydid23]

I work for a large company with a floor full of lawyers and I will tell you that we are very careful after something happens (big or small) to make sure our response is appropriate to the situation and a lot of thought goes into our response to it because of how it can be perceived later. Sad but true.

Absolutely. And if a child dies a gruesome death on your property, no matter who is at fault legally, one would hope the company would extend every gracious benefit to the surviving family during the immediate aftermath.

Transportation, food, phone calls, lodging, etc---that should be taken care of in the immediate aftermath, just out of basic respect and decency. JMO

 

[al66pine]

Offer of a Plea Agreement?

I don't know that he will get the option of a plea deal. Defendants don't just get to decide to take one. The prosecution has to be willing to give them one. IF one is offered it often has an expiration date when it will no longer be available. Sometimes everyone will agree just before trial, of course... but it certainly shouldn't be counted on.
....I refuse to carry children up and down the escalator. If we couldn't take the elevator I wore the child strapped to me. These are just the 4 that are burned into my brain....

@MsFacetious bbm sbm Yes, re offer re possible plea agreement.
Expiration date? Yes, if prosecution has just charged a defendant, and has not prepared case down to the last teensy-tiny detail, might be willing to explore a deal, talk about it. But if not accepted or countered in a relatively short time or by a specified time, must continue prepping for trial. If no fruitful communication/negotiation, then prosecutor plugs away prepping for trial. If def/def atty wants to take up the offer on the courthouse steps or at the 11th hour, after prosecutor team is ready to go, why would prosecutor make a deal? All the prep and virtually all the work for trial is done, maybe, what, 80-90% of the staff atty time. Unless prosecutor has discovered a major weakness in the case, not much incentive to deal. jmo.
Plea? Did atty Winkleman describe poss plea deal for SA (limited/no probation or supervision) when he does not rep SA? Or I may be remembering incorrectly. Anyone w a link showing who described plea deal?

And these other baby drop cases you linked, yikes. You & others here, great Moms.

 

[al66pine]

Model of Window, Wall for Crim Trial?

I'm thinking the prosecution may erect a model of the window and surrounding area true to size/exact measurements with the wooden railing and a window like the one SA looked through. They could then use this model along with SA's measurements to show where SA's head would have been when he was bent over the wooden rail and looking out the window before picking up Chloe. And someone to testify how much breeze would have been coming in the open window.

@fabvab I think this would be a terrific approach for the prosecutor.

 

[they'll get you]

Who is Aunty google?

 

[katydid23]

I'm thinking the prosecution may erect a model of the window and surrounding area true to size/exact measurements with the wooden railing and a window like the one SA looked through. They could then use this model along with SA's measurements to show where SA's head would have been when he was bent over the wooden rail and looking out the window before picking up Chloe. And someone to testify how much breeze would have been coming in the open window.

I am hoping and praying the jury gets to go on a field trip. I hope they get to go to the dock and look at the 11th floor deck area for themselves.....

 

[they'll get you]

Why do people kill children?
1. By accident
2. Mental Illness
3. Rage
4. Revenge
5. Money

Did I miss any? We don't know much about this situation, but we do know that the Puerto Rican DA decided to file charges against SA, in the death of Chloe. SA is 51 years old, probably has a car, a job, and manages normal activities of daily living without assistance.

Explain why a man picks up a child, places her up and over a guardrail, after double checking that the window is open? And how is RCCL in any way responsible for Chloe's death?

It could’ve been rage. Maybe he didn’t get his own way and was fuming at another member of the party, some people don’t travel well especially with others.
I’ve known some people who sulk and fume within or are like spoilt brats and have a blind temper tantrum if they don’t get their own way.
He looks like an immature sulker that likes his little Mrs to pamper him. JMO.

I had that problem once but I divorced it.

 

[BrownRice]

He only begins the (fake) crying AFTER he asks for a glass of water. What is that all about, some actor trick? Then he peeks up at the interviewer to gauge his reactions to his emotional breakdown. This guy is a clown. An evil clown. JMOO

What? I’ve never heard this before. Where did this come from?

 

[they'll get you]

Why do people kill children?
1. By accident
2. Mental Illness
3. Rage
4. Revenge
5. Money

Did I miss any? We don't know much about this situation, but we do know that the Puerto Rican DA decided to file charges against SA, in the death of Chloe. SA is 51 years old, probably has a car, a job, and manages normal activities of daily living without assistance.

Explain why a man picks up a child, places her up and over a guardrail, after double checking that the window is open? And how is RCCL in any way responsible for Chloe's death?

I like this thought provoking post, it’s got me thinking.

How did his boss describe him?