IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #6

[justbreathe]

Oh. I don't think he's under any delusion about what happened and his role in it.

To be fair, no one should automatically admit fault immediately after an accident, while you are still in shock and don't know all the extenuating circumstances.

IMO, somehow I have gotten the impression that immediately after this happened, when SA had to offer some explanation for why Chloe was suddenly dead, he didn't go into detail.

He said she fell from a window, and he didn't quite go in to the fact that she was on top of a safety railing, or how she got on top of that railing. So they got the impression that it was the window's fault and immediately contacted an attorney.

LE was able to get to the bottom of it quickly, very simply stating the fact that SA was holding Chloe on the safety railing and she slipped from his grasp.

Then, to make himself feel better, and support the parents' displaced anger and quest to sue the cruise company, he had to go along with the story that the window was the real culprit. Because SA would "never ever, ever" place any of their children in danger. JMO

And they refuse to watch the footage that shows exactly what happened. Delusional?

 

[justbreathe]

<respectfully snipped> The video of Chloe running so far ahead of Grandpa (possibly 10-12 feet) put the toddler in danger long before she was lifted up to the window. She should not have been allowed to scamper away from SA and enter an adult bar area. No other children appear to be in Squeeze because most adults know that children should not be in a bar. There have been several posts here about the dangers posed to Chloe by being in the bar, and Grandpa didn't seem the least bit concerned that Chloe wandered over there from the children's water play area.

Characterizing where they were as a “children’s play area” where there is clearly a bar filled with drinking adults between them and the pool. The bar is not a children’s play area.

 

[Bethan]

In one of the videos, Chloe can be seen quickly toddling from the H2O Zone into the Squeeze bar area. She seemed to forge ahead of Grandpa who could barely keep up. I wonder if Chloe frequently ran ahead of others without restraint? Chloe wouldn't have been the first little one to enjoy the "catch me" game, nor will she be the last. Maybe Chloe did this when she was with Grandpa, and it was a cute game until SA became exasperated at having to chase Chloe around, especially when he was overweight, hot, and sweaty on the open deck of a cruise ship.

At 18 months children are accident-prone.

My own toddlers would have been wearing a safety harness & walking reins, allowing the child to roam while keeping them safe ( & under control!)

I have no idea why these have gone out of fashion!

I was genuinely shocked, watching the video, just how far ahead of SA little Chloe ran. She could have fallen down stairs, tripped & bumped her head, tripped up an adult & caused an accident.

So many potential hazards for a toddler in this new & crowded environment.

( Deleting my final sentence.....as I don’t want TO)

 

[Forever Young]

And they refuse to watch the footage that shows exactly what happened. Delusional?

In denial.

 

[SoCalDavidS]

In denial.

And regardless of how the trial turns out, and whether their lawsuit against RCCL is successful or not, that is how they will remain.

There is NO CHANCE that they'll have a "Come To Hey Zeus" moment, they've already made up their minds, and will live the rest of their lives believing it was SOMEONE ELSE'S FAULT, not theirs and certainly not Grandpa's.

 

[they'll get you]

Why don’t more children fall overboard?
Look at the furniture close and how easy is it for a child to climb over.
They haven’t, they don’t.
Is it because children realise there’s a danger,
Is it because parents watch their children.
NO PARENT BEFORE HAS DROPPED A CHILD OVERBOARD.

This is a balcony from the Freedom of the Seas.

 

[Lawnguylander1964]

I was watching Surviving R Kelly II yesterday and one of the psychiatrists was talking about the fact that people will believe something regardless of all the evidence in front of them and you can't change their mind. It reminded me of Chloe's mother.

From Psychology Today:

5 Reasons Why People Stick to Their Beliefs, No Matter What

We all naturally strive to reduce uncomfortable thoughts and emotions that sit poorly with our dearly held beliefs. Such is the way when we deny evidence of an unfaithful partner or of the abysmal performance of a beloved sporting team. Our beliefs become impervious to the facts in a process psychologists call cognitive immunization.

Cognitive immunization helps to explain why some beliefs become even stronger when challenged. They also help to explain how we cannot let go of some beliefs in the face of overwhelming contradictory evidence.

 

[Pammi]

I’m not a lawyer- does “prudent person” apply here? In other words, would most right minded people make the same decision in the same circumstances? We use it in insurance so I’m not sure....

A railing is a universally understood item.

If I’m on a bridge, would I sit on or cross the railing?

when I’m at the zoo, do I sit on or cross over the railing in front of an open animal pen?

when I’m on stairs, do I cross the railing or hold it?

if I go to Niagara Falls, do I sit on or cross the railing as I look into the gorge?

So how can it be said there was “no protection” in front of the window to prevent this tragedy? Huh?

honestly a railing isn’t even language specific!

(Certainly there’s instances of each in the news but i don’t see the general public thinking much other than that was dumb and self inflicted) MOO

 

[BrownRice]

And they refuse to watch the footage that shows exactly what happened. Delusional?

I wouldn’t be able to watch the video either if I was Chloe’s mom. It’s horrible enough as a stranger.

 

[al66pine]

At 18 months children are accident-prone....

@Bethan sbm Lemme hep you a little with that ^.
At 0 to 18 years, some children are accident-prone.
For others, the period most fraught w peril is ~ 51 yrs, when more harm is inflicted on others.

Seriously, a child of any age can be 'accident-prone' when without parent/adult supervision, but agreeing one of the most dangerous stages is toddler time. jmo

 

[mickey2942]

I wouldn’t be able to watch the video either if I was Chloe’s mom. It’s horrible enough as a stranger.

That is very true.

When this story first came out, I read about "an open window, in a child's play area on the ship", and truly, I thought maybe she had been too short for the guardrail, and there had actually been an open window by the pool.

Then, I thought maybe SA had picked Chloe up, and she slid off a guardrail. I couldn't comprehend why SA was charged with negligent homicide. It must have been a terrible accident.

As horrific as the video evidence was, it was absolute clarity that this was not an "accident". It was deliberate malfeasance. SA ranks as one of the world's worst babysitters. Ever.

 

[they'll get you]

According to the suit, the family had just boarded the ship in San Juan on July 7 a few hours before the accident. Kimberly Wiegand went to a pool area with her daughter around 2:40 p.m. A little more than an hour later, Anello — who is married to Wiegand’s mother — came to watch the 18-month-old in a children’s water play area on Deck 11. Winkleman described the time that followed as “helicopter grandparenting” as Anello followed the toddler all around.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www...led-fall-sues-royal-caribbean/?outputType=amp

 

[jeena]

SA wears lined bifocal eyeglasses instead of progressives (lineless). Lined
bifocals are not recommend for computer work, yet SA works in IT. Additionally, the lined eyeglasses are considered old-fashioned, I don't know anyone retired who wears them, so why would someone working in the tech field want to look dated?

 

[neesaki]

According to the suit, the family had just boarded the ship in San Juan on July 7 a few hours before the accident. Kimberly Wiegand went to a pool area with her daughter around 2:40 p.m. A little more than an hour later, Anello — who is married to Wiegand’s mother — came to watch the 18-month-old in a children’s water play area on Deck 11. Winkleman described the time that followed as “helicopter grandparenting” as Anello followed the toddler all around.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2019/12/11/kids-are-not-supposed-die-cruise-ships-family-toddler-killed-fall-sues-royal-caribbean/?outputType=amp

He does spin his tall tails, doesn’t he. More apt would be “grandparent from hell”. JMO

 

[jeena]

He does spin his tall tails, doesn’t he. More apt would be “grandparent from hell”. JMO

Perhaps Winks wanted to spin SA following CW all around as being a great (helicopter) grandparent, but SA was really negligent by not holding her hand instead. Winks sounds like a politico, spinning bad things as good to help his case.

 

[they'll get you]

Kimberley left them both in the water play area so why didn’t he keep Chloe where her mother had her.

He allowed Chloe to walk aimlessly wherever she wanted. That’s NOT helicopter parenting at all.

‘Kimberly Wiegand went to a pool area with her daughter around 2:40 p.m. A little more than an hour later, Anello came to watch the 18-month-old in a children’s water play area on Deck 11.’

 

[al66pine]

Winkleman: SA "Helicopter* GrandParent."

He does spin his tall tails, doesn’t he. More apt would be “grandparent from hell”. JMO

@neesaki I'm wondering - what will the other ~ 30 min(?) of vid show, before in the H20Zone? Just curiosity. Hard to think of anything else possibly caught on recording that would tell us more about what SA did than the several min's of vid already released. Tho hoping vids will be clearer.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
* He neglected to mention: a grounded helicopter w no rotor.

 

[they'll get you]

Is this the new designs for cruising?

 

[Lawnguylander1964]

SA wears lined bifocal eyeglasses instead of progressives (lineless). Lined
bifocals are not recommend for computer work, yet SA works in IT. Additionally, the lined eyeglasses are considered old-fashioned, I don't know anyone retired who wears them, so why would someone working in the tech field want to look dated?

I take "he works in IT" with a grain of salt. And he's only been in IT for a year based on an early article I read that I can't find now. For all we know, he could be wiping hard drives for destruction. I don't believe he's some kind of engineer or anything.

Granddad of cruise ship toddler who plunged out of window to her death was not drunk, lawyer says: "Sam is not a drinker"

One of Anello's colleagues offered words of support to the grieving grandfather, who is thought to work in IT. Mike Hamann, St Joseph County auditor and head of IT told WSBT: "Sal works in the IT department, he's a very valuable employee. Wonderful, just, would do anything for you. And we're just mourning with him."

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

According to the suit, the family had just boarded the ship in San Juan on July 7 a few hours before the accident. Kimberly Wiegand went to a pool area with her daughter around 2:40 p.m. A little more than an hour later, Anello — who is married to Wiegand’s mother — came to watch the 18-month-old in a children’s water play area on Deck 11. Winkleman described the time that followed as “helicopter grandparenting” as Anello followed the toddler all around.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2019/12/11/kids-are-not-supposed-die-cruise-ships-family-toddler-killed-fall-sues-royal-caribbean/?outputType=amp

That is a great article, and the comments are extremely interesting.