IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #6

[SaguaroSpirit]

I take "he works in IT" with a grain of salt. And he's only been in IT for a year based on an early article I read that I can't find now. For all we know, he could be wiping hard drives for destruction. I don't believe he's some kind of engineer or anything.

Granddad of cruise ship toddler who plunged out of window to her death was not drunk, lawyer says: "Sam is not a drinker"

One of Anello's colleagues offered words of support to the grieving grandfather, who is thought to work in IT. Mike Hamann, St Joseph County auditor and head of IT told WSBT: "Sal works in the IT department, he's a very valuable employee. Wonderful, just, would do anything for you. And we're just mourning with him."

BBM I have noticed a lot of early articles and other stuff on the Internet about this case are nowhere to be found now. I remember reading certain facts and SM and such and I try to go back and link to these things and they are just gone.

 

[Montrealaise]

I was watching Surviving R Kelly II yesterday and one of the psychiatrists was talking about the fact that people will believe something regardless of all the evidence in front of them and you can't change their mind. It reminded me of Chloe's mother.

From Psychology Today:

5 Reasons Why People Stick to Their Beliefs, No Matter What

We all naturally strive to reduce uncomfortable thoughts and emotions that sit poorly with our dearly held beliefs. Such is the way when we deny evidence of an unfaithful partner or of the abysmal performance of a beloved sporting team. Our beliefs become impervious to the facts in a process psychologists call cognitive immunization.

Cognitive immunization helps to explain why some beliefs become even stronger when challenged. They also help to explain how we cannot let go of some beliefs in the face of overwhelming contradictory evidence.

Excellent and very informative post. You only have to look at the news to find examples of cognitive immunization: the wife of a celebrity who refuses to believe that her husband committed sexual assault, no matte how many victims come forward; the couple who treated their seriously-ill child with herbal remedies instead of taking him to a doctor and refuse to believe they did anything wrong, even though he died; and many more. I wonder whether SA has convinces himself that he thought there was glass there and is clinging to that belief.

 

[Montrealaise]

I was watching Surviving R Kelly II yesterday and one of the psychiatrists was talking about the fact that people will believe something regardless of all the evidence in front of them and you can't change their mind. It reminded me of Chloe's mother.

From Psychology Today:

5 Reasons Why People Stick to Their Beliefs, No Matter What

We all naturally strive to reduce uncomfortable thoughts and emotions that sit poorly with our dearly held beliefs. Such is the way when we deny evidence of an unfaithful partner or of the abysmal performance of a beloved sporting team. Our beliefs become impervious to the facts in a process psychologists call cognitive immunization.

Cognitive immunization helps to explain why some beliefs become even stronger when challenged. They also help to explain how we cannot let go of some beliefs in the face of overwhelming contradictory evidence.

Excellent and very informative post. You only have to look at the news to find examples of cognitive immunization: the wife of a celebrity who refuses to believe that her husband committed sexual assault, no matte how many victims come forward; the couple who treated their seriously-ill child with herbal remedies instead of taking him to a doctor and refuse to believe they did anything wrong, even though he died; and many more. I wonder whether SA has convinces himself that he thought there was glass there and is clinging to that belief.

 

[oviedo]

BBM I have noticed a lot of early articles and other stuff on the Internet about this case are nowhere to be found now. I remember reading certain facts and SM and such and I try to go back and link to these things and they are just gone.

Is this true of our media thread? I’m waiting for the video from the pier - I think they have cameras pointed at the ship and are going to show he not only dangled her but very possibly was tossing her up and catching her .... and missed
“Act of games...”
IMO

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

According to the suit, the family had just boarded the ship in San Juan on July 7 a few hours before the accident. Kimberly Wiegand went to a pool area with her daughter around 2:40 p.m. A little more than an hour later, Anello — who is married to Wiegand’s mother — came to watch the 18-month-old in a children’s water play area on Deck 11. Winkleman described the time that followed as “helicopter grandparenting” as Anello followed the toddler all around.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2019/12/11/kids-are-not-supposed-die-cruise-ships-family-toddler-killed-fall-sues-royal-caribbean/?outputType=amp

Winkleman actually said that? Grandpa SHOULD NOT have been following 18-month-old Chloe anywhere! He should have picked her up and carried her or taken her by the hand as they moved about together. I'm as disturbed by what I see in the video of Chloe taking off on her own - several feet ahead of SA - and entering an adult bar area as I am about him manhandling her up to the open window. A member suggested yesterday that Grandpa might have suggested going to look out of or bang on the windows, so Chloe started heading over to that wall of windows with SA barely able to keep up. He let the toddler wander away from him and into an adult bar area. Toddlers move quickly and should never be allowed to get so far away from a caregiver! If Chloe hadn't been tragically lost in the fall, she would have likely met her doom later in the cruise when in SA's care.

ETA: The more I think about it, MW's comment about Grandpa FOLLOWING Chloe everywhere seems to suggest that the little one was at fault! In other words, if Chloe had stood still and not taken off towards the windows, Grandpa would not have had to follow her, and the horrific "accident" would not have happened.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Winkleman actually said that? Grandpa SHOULD NOT have been following 18-month-old Chloe anywhere! He should have picked her up and carried her or taken her by the hand as they moved about together. I'm as disturbed by what I see in the video of Chloe taking off on her own - several feet ahead of SA - and entering an adult bar area as I am about him manhandling her up to the open window. A member suggested yesterday that Grandpa might have suggested going to look out of or bang on the windows, so Chloe started heading over to that wall of windows with SA barely able to keep up. He let the toddler wander away from him and into an adult bar area. Toddlers move quickly and should never be allowed to get so far away from a caregiver! If Chloe hadn't been tragically lost in the fall, she would have likely met her doom later in the cruise when in SA's care.

ETA: The more I think about it, MW's comment about Grandpa FOLLOWING Chloe everywhere seems to suggest that the little one was at fault! In other words, if Chloe had stood still and not taken off towards the windows, Grandpa would not have had to follow her, and the horrific "accident" would not have happened.

BBM Or cut up and badly injured or worse banging on the wrong glass...somehow I'm almost sensing a pattern here, but JMOO and all that.

 

[jeena]

DBM

Winkleman: SA "Helicopter* GrandParent."
@neesaki I'm wondering - what will the other ~ 30 min(?) of vid show, before in the H20Zone? Just curiosity. Hard to think of anything else possibly caught on recording that would tell us more about what SA did than the several min's of vid already released. Tho hoping vids will be clearer.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
* He neglected to mention: a grounded helicopter w no rotor.[/QUOTE DBM

I take "he works in IT" with a grain of salt. And he's only been in IT for a year based on an early article I read that I can't find now. For all we know, he could be wiping hard drives for destruction. I don't believe he's some kind of engineer or anything.

Granddad of cruise ship toddler who plunged out of window to her death was not drunk, lawyer says: "Sam is not a drinker"

One of Anello's colleagues offered words of support to the grieving grandfather, who is thought to work in IT. Mike Hamann, St Joseph County auditor and head of IT told WSBT: "Sal works in the IT department, he's a very valuable employee. Wonderful, just, would do anything for you. And we're just mourning with him."

 

[IceIce9]

Is this true of our media thread? I’m waiting for the video from the pier - I think they have cameras pointed at the ship and are going to show he not only dangled her but very possibly was tossing her up and catching her .... and missed
“Act of games...”
IMO

I keep remembering when it was first reported PR LE stated that there were eyewitnesses on and off the ship.

 

[jeena]

DBM

Winkleman: SA "Helicopter* GrandParent."
@neesaki I'm wondering - what will the other ~ 30 min(?) of vid show, before in the H20Zone? Just curiosity. Hard to think of anything else possibly caught on recording that would tell us more about what SA did than the several min's of vid already released. Tho hoping vids will be clearer.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
* He neglected to mention: a grounded helicopter w no rotor.[/QUOTE DBM

I take "he works in IT" with a grain of salt. And he's only been in IT for a year based on an early article I read that I can't find now. For all we know, he could be wiping hard drives for destruction. I don't believe he's some kind of engineer or anything.

Granddad of cruise ship toddler who plunged out of window to her death was not drunk, lawyer says: "Sam is not a drinker"

One of Anello's colleagues offered words of support to the grieving grandfather, who is thought to work in IT. Mike Hamann, St Joseph County auditor and head of IT told WSBT: "Sal works in the IT department, he's a very valuable employee. Wonderful, just, would do anything for you. And we're just mourning with him."

Yes, you got that right, my post implied SA might not work on looking at computer screens at his company. Additionally, the lined bifocals may have affected his vision at the window. I think the issue with the lined bifocals and computer work is the distance between the eyes and the computer, progressive lenses are recommended instead.
If his colorblindness is so severe he couldn't tell the window was open, why isn't he wearing corrective glasses made for that condition?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I keep remembering when it was first reported PR LE stated that there were eyewitnesses on and off the ship.

I feel confident that RCCL and port authorities have "smoking video" that will clearly indicate just how far SA placed Chloe outside the window frame and the antics that led to the tragic fall.

 

[sl222]

I feel confident that RCCL and port authorities have "smoking video" that will clearly indicate just how far SA placed Chloe outside the window frame and the antics that led to the tragic fall.

I agree, BetteDavisEyes.

 

[jeena]

I feel confident that RCCL and port authorities have "smoking video" that will clearly indicate just how far SA placed Chloe outside the window frame and the antics that led to the tragic fall.[/QUOTE If SA held her outside the window, why is he still going with the lie that he believed glass was there? The only explanation would be he knows there are no additional videos or doesn't think there are more videos or any eyewitnesses. Agree?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

^ SA can think there is no other video if he wants, but that doesn't make it so. I've been cruising since the mid-1980s and know that there are surveillance cameras all around ships - interior and exterior - and all over ports and surrounding buildings. The window was open, and Grandpa knew it.

 

[justice4allnow]

There has been a mingling of governmental and private support for the Wiegands in their lawsuit that has made me uncomfortable. For instance, the family received a police escort from the airport to their home when flying back to the US. Yes, I realize the father is a police officer but that is a private use of public resources and is inappropriate, especially considering the lawsuit. Sam Anello, as has been discussed, has a Fundrazr for his travel and legal expenses, separate from the husband and wife’s Fundly, which raised something over $22k. Sam’s Fundrazr has a little over $6k and one of his contributors is St Joseph County Auditor’s Office. Again, this is public money being used for a private individual- who is accused of a crime. And this contribution may give the appearance that there is government support in the lawsuit against RC. Remember when the Wiegands were going to hold their press conference announcing the lawsuit at the police station, but there was some kind of outcry about that being inappropriate that caused them to move it to another location? It’s important that there be transparency in any criminal or civil procedure and yet this appears to be a bit muddied.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

There has been a mingling of governmental and private support for the Wiegands in their lawsuit that has made me uncomfortable. For instance, the family received a police escort from the airport to their home when flying back to the US. Yes, I realize the father is a police officer but that is a private use of public resources and is inappropriate, especially considering the lawsuit. Sam Anello, as has been discussed, has a Fundrazr for his travel and legal expenses, separate from the husband and wife’s Fundly, which raised something over $22k. Sam’s Fundrazr has a little over $6k and one of his contributors is St Joseph County Auditor’s Office. Again, this is public money being used for a private individual- who is accused of a crime. And this contribution may give the appearance that there is government support in the lawsuit against RC. Remember when the Wiegands were going to hold their press conference announcing the lawsuit at the police station, but there was some kind of outcry about that being inappropriate that caused them to move it to another location? It’s important that there be transparency in any criminal or civil procedure and yet this appears to be a bit muddied.

ITA, and I find it disturbing. I am also insulted that SA and company seem to think people are stupid and will fall for their nonsense and made up stories.

 

[MsMarple]

There has been a mingling of governmental and private support for the Wiegands in their lawsuit that has made me uncomfortable. For instance, the family received a police escort from the airport to their home when flying back to the US. Yes, I realize the father is a police officer but that is a private use of public resources and is inappropriate, especially considering the lawsuit. Sam Anello, as has been discussed, has a Fundrazr for his travel and legal expenses, separate from the husband and wife’s Fundly, which raised something over $22k. Sam’s Fundrazr has a little over $6k and one of his contributors is St Joseph County Auditor’s Office. Again, this is public money being used for a private individual- who is accused of a crime. And this contribution may give the appearance that there is government support in the lawsuit against RC. Remember when the Wiegands were going to hold their press conference announcing the lawsuit at the police station, but there was some kind of outcry about that being inappropriate that caused them to move it to another location? It’s important that there be transparency in any criminal or civil procedure and yet this appears to be a bit muddied.

Yes, the Wiegands moved their big press announcement to the Fraternal Order of Police in South Bend, the same organization which operates the two fundraisers for the family.

 

[they'll get you]

I feel confident that RCCL and port authorities have "smoking video" that will clearly indicate just how far SA placed Chloe outside the window frame and the antics that led to the tragic fall.

If he put his head beyond the windows or held Chloe outside then the cameras may have captured it as people have been filmed falling from a ship.

Terrifying moment 'intoxicated' woman plunges off cruise ship into sea | Daily Mail Online

 

[Sapphire1719]

Is this true of our media thread? I’m waiting for the video from the pier - I think they have cameras pointed at the ship and are going to show he not only dangled her but very possibly was tossing her up and catching her .... and missed
“Act of games...”
IMO

Yikes, that would be absolutely horrifying if so!

 

[rodneymullenmg]

I just read on this thread. SA needs to be in jail til he perishes.
how TF do you not realize there is no glass.
Did he realize he was on a boat?
FFS

 

[neesaki]

I just read on this thread. SA needs to be in jail til he perishes.
how TF do you not realize there is no glass.
Did he realize he was on a boat?
FFS

Welcome ! Good point, his actions causing Chloe’s death are so unbelievable it still makes absolutely no sense. Totally unfathomable for this to happen by “accident”.

He picked her up, then placed her out there all on on purpose.... Hiw can that be anything close to an accident. SMH Then, he proceeded to drop her or push her, down to the concrete dock. OMG. To this day, I still can not comprehend anyone doing something so heinous if it wasn’t intentional. Which of course is not only heinous but Criminal. JMO