IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #6

[Pammi]

Colorblind AND macular degeneration AND shoulder neuropathy AND dementia.

So why would someone with shoulder neuropathy think he can hold a 25-30# child out the window? When you don’t have to carry a child daily (like your own) that weight gets heavy fast. Not that it doesn’t for mom too... but generally she’s more used to it. If you know he can’t see, why is he a good fit to watch the precious cargo??? Hmmm.

I think the moron diagnosis needs added here....

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

...@BetteDavisEyes Snipped below for focus. And Bon Voyage to you & Mr. BDE.

Thank you, al66pine I started packing today and will finish over the weekend. I'm not OCD: I just like to be well-organized and prepared

 

[Pammi]

.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

So why would someone with shoulder neuropathy think he can hold a 25-30# child out the window? When you don’t have to carry a child daily (like your own) that weight gets heavy fast. Not that it doesn’t for mom too... but generally she’s more used to it. If you know he can’t see, why is he a good fit to watch the precious cargo??? Hmmm.

I think the moron diagnosis needs added here....

For sure. You can't fix stupid

 

[Pammi]

Seems like mom and dad got on board thinking about “me” time not Chloe time... disaster.

 

[Lawnguylander1964]

Regarding tone in legal motions - I was a litigation secretary for 12 years back in the day and many times lawyers would ask me to read a paragraph and tell me if it sounded bitchy, sarcastic, etc. It's very hard to keep something factual when you just want to call someone a jerk (or worse). I can hear the office conversation of the RCCL lawyers in my head as they read the complaint.

 

[jeena]

If you are in a trip and fall accident, after you get up always look around to see if anything is wrong like cracked or uneven flooring or concrete, ice, water, etc. and take photos.
My mom fell in a department store on a wet floor. It turned out their roof was leaking from rain and black water marks were on the ceiling. A few days later I suggested taking photos of the water marks, but her personal injury attorney told her it was a waste of time. We took the photos anyway. The end result was the photos turned the case in my mom's favor and she won the lawsuit! Lesson learned, lawyers don't always give good advice. Well, it will be interesting to see how Winks handles this case going forward, he already made some flubs.

If CW could, would she be able to forgive SA for doing the wrong thing and taking her life?

 

[Stinalyn]

Hi everyone,
This might be slightly off-topic, but in an older thread on this subject ( I can't remember which one and can't find the post now) someone had said they thought that KW may be pregnant now. The reason given was that she has an account on ETSY and had a list of items she wanted ( a wish list) for a "baby shower" including items for a new baby girl and a few boys t-shirts (for Chloe's brother?)which contained the message: "Chosen for me by my sister in Heaven" or something similar.

I checked Etsy, and she did indeed have such a list and several items -- presumably for a new baby --which also contained the same message about being chosen by a sister in Heaven (that might not be exactly what it said, but similar). It struck me because it was so sad for a child to have to wear something with that message. I feel like I'm invading their privacy, and it's maybe not right, but OTOH, the Etsy account is public.

This has been bothering me for some time now, I'm not really sure why, but I just wanted to know if anyone else had heard of her possibly being pregnant again?

When I looked at the video footage of the last presser, the table was awfully high, so that you couldn't see her stomach at all, unable to verify if she "looked" pregnant. There was an Entertainment Tonight video from an interview with AW and KW, presumably from the same day as the presser (same clothes/hairstyle/bright red lipstick). In that video, the camera was positioned (carefully?) so that nothing was shown below about the mid-chest level on either KW or AW, so impossible to tell from that either.

I don't really know why this is bothering me so much, I just keep thinking about it, and I wanted to know if anyone remembered the previous post that said she was possibly pregnant or if it's been speculated on anywhere else.
I hope I'm not violating TOS by posting this, and it admittedly is speculation and not directly relevant to the criminal case against SA or what happened to poor dear Chloe, but if she is pregnant, it might have some bearing on the way the family has handled certain aspects of this situation. And I guess I'm just curious.
I apologize if this is against TOS or too off-topic. All MOO.

 

[justbreathe]

Which is why those very first witness reports in the news used the words "dangling" and "out the window" and Wink squashed that immediately and said this wasn't the Michael Jackson situation.

No, it wasn’t. It was much, much worse.

 

[al66pine]

FWIW Dept. - Previous Overboard Deaths
In reading some lipcon.com pleadings for cases the law firm has previously filed, I ran across this.*
"25. Between 2000 and 2015, there have been approximately 16 incidents of passengers going overboard while travelling on Royal Caribbean ships. Out of those 16 incidents, only 3 people have survived, the rest have died."

{{{ETA: I've not tried to verify the numbers, but gotta think the law firm would have a solid basis for including this info in a complaint filed against RCL. Seems like the # would be incontrovertible. I wonder what the current number of overboards is now, for RCL.}}}
--------------------------------------------------------------
* from lipcon.com November 8, 2016 Erik Elbaz, Individually and as Personal Representative for the Estate of Bernardo Texeira Garcia, deceased v. Royal Caribbean Cruises, LTD. LMAW, PA files suit in the high profile overboard case against Royal Caribbean that was all caught on video.

 

[al66pine]

Forgiveness for SA?

....If CW could, would she be able to forgive SA for doing the wrong thing and taking her life?

@jeena sbm for focus. Good question.
Which would be harder --
--- Forgiving SA for his actions w Chloe at window?
--- Forgiving SA for his statements after Chloe's death (assuming the vids clearly show SA's head out the window, so he knew it was open)?

I can only hope I'm never, ever asked to forgive anyone for anything akin to what SA did & said. jmo

 

[redabby]

Hi everyone,
This might be slightly off-topic, but in an older thread on this subject ( I can't remember which one and can't find the post now) someone had said they thought that KW may be pregnant now. The reason given was that she has an account on ETSY and had a list of items she wanted ( a wish list) for a "baby shower" including items for a new baby girl and a few boys t-shirts (for Chloe's brother?)which contained the message: "Chosen for me by my sister in Heaven" or something similar.

If she did become pregnant again I wonder what type of interaction she would allow SA with a new baby. Although I think she is in firm denial I cannot believe she would let the child alone with him.​

 

[Yellowbeak]

@Yellowbeak snipped ^ for focus. Always helpful to hear from someone like you who has been there. I posted a few min ago about where Fr/Seas was docked. if you can use Google Earth (or similar), does that help w any thoughts about where exterior surv cams might be? Thx in adv.
{{{ ETA: I enlarged Complaint pic (page 6/para.16) w the shin-high "prison bar" window almost in middle of image, then matched pic against Google Earth. Imo Fr/Seas was at San Juan at PanAmerican pier 1 or 2, adjoining the small airport w runway, taxiway & row of planes, running parallel to ship.
Gotta enlarge the pic quite a bit to see the smallish (many 2 or 4 seater sized) planes.}}}

 

[Yellowbeak]

Not a very good picture but this is taken from deck16 ; very close to the Street, I believe that’s a Hilton hotel.

 

[Yellowbeak]

Now that I looked at the map, I was at Port San Juan pier and you are correct, Freedom is at Pan American pier.

 

[al66pine]

Ship's Location. July 7? Surv Cams? When Were Complaint Pix Taken?
Pix from post 571 by ovideo. Thanks @oviedo.

^ Fr/Seas at PanAmerican pier 1 or 2 in San Juan, PR..
See the ~10-12 small planes at left foreground/corner, confirming ship is at same location as in Complaint pic (page 6/ para. 6), w the shin-high "prison bar" window almost in middle of image.
That pic shows a row of small planes, a small airport w a runway, & taxiway running parallel, adjacent to the ship. Gotta enlarge the Complaint pic quite a bit to see those details.

From ^ pic, there could be multiple surv cams at dockside bldg, capturing SA w his head & Chloe outside window. Do we know if Fr/Seas was starting the July 7 cruise from that dock?

BTW if Squeeze Bar, The Window, & Chloe's fall were on port side of ship, then Fr/Seas had to be facing the opposite of above pic (w bow toward left, not right), for Chloe to be dropped to dock.jmo

 

[LietKynes]

Grandfather who dropped toddler to her death from cruise ship was 'aware it was open' | Daily Mail Online
Comments are illuminating.....

 

[MassGuy]

Grandfather who dropped toddler to her death from cruise ship was 'aware it was open' | Daily Mail Online
Comments are illuminating.....

The comments are almost universally against this man, as they should be.

There are some great lines in that filing, but I particularly liked these:


'His actions, which no reasonable person could have foreseen, were reckless and irresponsible and the sole reason why Chloe is no longer with her parents.'

RCL owed no duty to warn Plaintiffs of the open and obvious danger associated with putting a child through an open window. Such reckless actions require no warning.

'Individuals merely need to use their basic senses to appreciate the obvious nature of the danger.'

 

[whoopiecushions]

Hi everyone,
This might be slightly off-topic, but in an older thread on this subject ( I can't remember which one and can't find the post now) someone had said they thought that KW may be pregnant now. The reason given was that she has an account on ETSY and had a list of items she wanted ( a wish list) for a "baby shower" including items for a new baby girl and a few boys t-shirts (for Chloe's brother?)which contained the message: "Chosen for me by my sister in Heaven" or something similar.

I checked Etsy, and she did indeed have such a list and several items -- presumably for a new baby --which also contained the same message about being chosen by a sister in Heaven (that might not be exactly what it said, but similar). It struck me because it was so sad for a child to have to wear something with that message. I feel like I'm invading their privacy, and it's maybe not right, but OTOH, the Etsy account is public.

This has been bothering me for some time now, I'm not really sure why, but I just wanted to know if anyone else had heard of her possibly being pregnant again?

When I looked at the video footage of the last presser, the table was awfully high, so that you couldn't see her stomach at all, unable to verify if she "looked" pregnant. There was an Entertainment Tonight video from an interview with AW and KW, presumably from the same day as the presser (same clothes/hairstyle/bright red lipstick). In that video, the camera was positioned (carefully?) so that nothing was shown below about the mid-chest level on either KW or AW, so impossible to tell from that either.

I don't really know why this is bothering me so much, I just keep thinking about it, and I wanted to know if anyone remembered the previous post that said she was possibly pregnant or if it's been speculated on anywhere else.
I hope I'm not violating TOS by posting this, and it admittedly is speculation and not directly relevant to the criminal case against SA or what happened to poor dear Chloe, but if she is pregnant, it might have some bearing on the way the family has handled certain aspects of this situation. And I guess I'm just curious.
I apologize if this is against TOS or too off-topic. All MOO.

How do you know those Etsy lists weren't created before Chloe was born?

 

[neesaki]

Grandfather who dropped toddler to her death from cruise ship was 'aware it was open' | Daily Mail Online
Comments are illuminating.....

The truth is finally coming out.

Quote From the article:

“After months of bearing false and inaccurate accusations, from the Wiegands' attorneys through the press, RCL now faces the legally mandated task of responding to a lawsuit the Wiegands' attorneys did not file in good faith,' it charges.

'This is not a case of an unknowing child approaching an open window and falling out because the window was defective or improperly positioned.

'Rather, this is a case about an adult man, Chloe's step grandfather who, as surveillance footage unquestionably confirms: (1) walked up to a window he was aware was open; (2) leaned his upper body out the window for several seconds; (3) reached down and picked up Chloe; and (4) then held her by and out of the open window for thirty four seconds before he lost his grip and dropped Chloe out of the window.”