IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #7

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Funerals and flying back and forth for court appearances on the other hand can add up pretty quickly I’m sure.
You are right, mheido67. Since they had Chloe cremated and are keeping her urn at home, funeral expenses were kept low, and they had the Fundly which raised over $22,ooo for them. As for Sam's flights, I think around $5000 was raised separately for him.
 
MW is a fast mover.

Chloe died on July 8th and Winkleman was uploading videos before the 12th.

Google Image Result for https://i.ytimg.com/vi/XTgsZzTVerM/maxresdefault.jpgMaritime Lawyer Michael Winkleman: Tragic Death of a Toddler | The Today Show - Lipcon.com
Visit
Watch (2:37)
Uploaded by: Lipcon, Margulies, Alsina & Winkleman, P.A.,Jul 12, 2019
124Views· 0Likes· 0Comments
Michael Winkleman of Maritime Law Firm, Lipcon, Margulies, Alsina & Winkleman, P.A on The Today Show discussing the tragic death of a toddler onboard a cruis


cbs web extra winkleman - Google Search:
 
Wow, people have really dug into their lives. And folks wonder why people clam up in front of LE. Lol.
They put themselves out there on a national press tour, bashing the cruise lines, essentially calling them murderers. Saying if it wasn't for RCCL, their baby would have been celebrating her 2nd birthday right now.

Doing a press junket like that is going to bring out some scrutiny of them. That's the price you pay when you set yourself up as 'victims' against a cruel monstrous corporation. People are going to investigate that claim.
 
I've looked into cruises, but never taken one, but my understanding is that you book with a pretty small deposit and then there are payments you have to make at various times without losing your deposit.

So if they planned this a year in advance, they would have made periodic payments. They wouldn't have plunked down the entire amount all at once.

Plus most people vacation on credit cards anyway, so it's not like they had to have the cash to go on vacation.
 
I've looked into cruises, but never taken one, but my understanding is that you book with a pretty small deposit and then there are payments you have to make at various times without losing your deposit.

So if they planned this a year in advance, they would have made periodic payments. They wouldn't have plunked down the entire amount all at once.

Plus most people vacation on credit cards anyway, so it's not like they had to have the cash to go on vacation.
Yes you can do this ! It’s a great way to pay up front IMO
 
My March spring break was buy one get one half off - they flew back into Chicago so my guess is that’s where they flew out of - flights from Chicago to south bend are plentiful (at least they used to be when I was logging 100k miles a year on Delta in software installations)
Jmo

Thanks. I was trying to remember where in Indiana they were from. At the moment, flights from O'Hare to San Juan are crazy high for the same dates in July that I checked from Indianapolis. $854 per person! As for the BOGO sale - sadly, no matter what sale Royal Caribbean claims to be running, the price always comes out about the same. I know someone mentioned that CW would have been at a very discounted rate. Her age was accounted for in the pricing I gave earlier.

I've looked into cruises, but never taken one, but my understanding is that you book with a pretty small deposit and then there are payments you have to make at various times without losing your deposit.

So if they planned this a year in advance, they would have made periodic payments. They wouldn't have plunked down the entire amount all at once.

Plus most people vacation on credit cards anyway, so it's not like they had to have the cash to go on vacation.

If not using a credit card or Uplift, the deposit is $250 per person. Then you can pay as much or as little as you want on a regular basis as long as the cruise is paid in full 90 days prior to departure.
So, if they planned a year in advance with full deposits, that would still have been about $525 a month just for the cruise portion.

I personally find it distasteful that they spent this amount of money on a cruise while holding their hands out asking others to pay for their son's trip. JMOO (Don't get me wrong, I spend plenty of money on cruises I probably shouldn't be taking. BUT, 1. it's part of my job and 2. I don't turn around and ask anyone else for money.)
 
I just had to LOL. In looking for the latest news, I came across this story. It's not the story that had me laughing. It's the name of the website. For a split second, I couldn't help wondering if Wink had gone so far as to create his own news site. LOL
Family of toddler who fell to her death off a cruise ship says Royal Caribbean provided a 'false narrative'
from the link:
“In fact, it would have been physically impossible for Mr. Anello to have had his head out of the window frame with his feet on the deck,” court papers say.

Anello would have “required much longer arms than he had” to hold Chloe out the window, Wiegand’s family attorney alleges.

The family’s lawsuit claims Anello lifted Chloe up onto the railing and held her as she leaned forward to bang on the glass. There was no glass pane and she slipped from Anello’s arms, falling 150 feet below to the pier, resulting in her death, the suit says.

Anello was not aware that some of the glass panes could be opened, the suit said.



Ok, this^^^ is a losing defense, in my opinion.

First, we have seen evidence to refute the claims, that it was 'physically impossible' for him to put his head outside the window, or reach his arms outside the window. There are pictures of other people doing so that are not taller than the defendant.

But the more. I think about it, that is not even the most crucial point.

If you watch the 'reenactment' set forth by Winkleman, you will see the man place the doll, over the guard rail, to stand up on the window ledge.

That, by itself, even if she wasn't placed outside the window, would be enough for a criminal neglect charge. Looking at the picture of her standing, precariously, upon a tiny window ledge, 11 stories up, is shocking to see.

And his excuse that he didn't know it opened is a losing defense too, imo. He kept saying ' I thought there was glass' over and over.

But there wasn't any glass in front of him at the time. So it doesn't matter that he thought there was. HE DIDNT CHECK.

If I run a stop sign and run over a child, I can scream until I am blue in the face -" I didn't see the stop sign" -----but it doesn't work as an excuse because I was wrong.

He didnt check to see if there was a glass barrier in front of him before propping that baby up in the window ledge. It doesn't matter what he 'thought' ---because he didn't check before placing his baby in that dangerous position.

Also, this statement is incorrect:

"The family’s lawsuit claims Anello lifted Chloe up onto the railing and held her as she leaned forward to bang on the glass. There was no glass pane and she slipped from Anello’s arms,..."


FALSE^^^^^^----they left out the part about him moving her from the rail to the window ledge. BIG DIFFERENCE between the 2.

In the reenactment they showed him putting her ion the window ledge. So why did they leave that out of this explanation?
 
Thanks. I was trying to remember where in Indiana they were from. At the moment, flights from O'Hare to San Juan are crazy high for the same dates in July that I checked from Indianapolis. $854 per person! As for the BOGO sale - sadly, no matter what sale Royal Caribbean claims to be running, the price always comes out about the same. I know someone mentioned that CW would have been at a very discounted rate. Her age was accounted for in the pricing I gave earlier.



If not using a credit card or Uplift, the deposit is $250 per person. Then you can pay as much or as little as you want on a regular basis as long as the cruise is paid in full 90 days prior to departure.
So, if they planned a year in advance with full deposits, that would still have been about $525 a month just for the cruise portion.

I personally find it distasteful that they spent this amount of money on a cruise while holding their hands out asking others to pay for their son's trip. JMOO (Don't get me wrong, I spend plenty of money on cruises I probably shouldn't be taking. BUT, 1. it's part of my job and 2. I don't turn around and ask anyone else for money.)

How do you know the cruise wasn’t paid for by the grandparents? A gift to the family perhaps?

Lots of kids use fundraising to pay for sports or school trips. It’s not that unusual. And I’m certain many take advantage of modern online methods these days rather than going door to door to neighbors like pre-internet days.
 
How do you know the cruise wasn’t paid for by the grandparents? A gift to the family perhaps?

Lots of kids use fundraising to pay for sports or school trips. It’s not that unusual. And I’m certain many take advantage of modern online methods these days rather than going door to door to neighbors like pre-internet days.
So, fine, whatever. You are being supportive of the family, and I am not. I am not understanding or appreciating their attitude. IMHO we will see some measure of justice for Chloe when the whole truth comes out. We all have our own opinions. Shrug-Emoji.jpg
 
from the link:
“In fact, it would have been physically impossible for Mr. Anello to have had his head out of the window frame with his feet on the deck,” court papers say.

Anello would have “required much longer arms than he had” to hold Chloe out the window, Wiegand’s family attorney alleges.

The family’s lawsuit claims Anello lifted Chloe up onto the railing and held her as she leaned forward to bang on the glass. There was no glass pane and she slipped from Anello’s arms, falling 150 feet below to the pier, resulting in her death, the suit says.

Anello was not aware that some of the glass panes could be opened, the suit said.



Ok, this^^^ is a losing defense, in my opinion.

First, we have seen evidence to refute the claims, that it was 'physically impossible' for him to put his head outside the window, or reach his arms outside the window. There are pictures of other people doing so that are not taller than the defendant.

But the more. I think about it, that is not even the most crucial point.

If you watch the 'reenactment' set forth by Winkleman, you will see the man place the doll, over the guard rail, to stand up on the window ledge.

That, by itself, even if she wasn't placed outside the window, would be enough for a criminal neglect charge. Looking at the picture of her standing, precariously, upon a tiny window ledge, 11 stories up, is shocking to see.

And his excuse that he didn't know it opened is a losing defense too, imo. He kept saying ' I thought there was glass' over and over.

But there wasn't any glass in front of him at the time. So it doesn't matter that he thought there was. HE DIDNT CHECK.

If I run a stop sign and run over a child, I can scream until I am blue in the face -" I didn't see the stop sign" -----but it doesn't work as an excuse because I was wrong.

He didnt check to see if there was a glass barrier in front of him before propping that baby up in the window ledge. It doesn't matter what he 'thought' ---because he didn't check before placing his baby in that dangerous position.

Also, this statement is incorrect:

"The family’s lawsuit claims Anello lifted Chloe up onto the railing and held her as she leaned forward to bang on the glass. There was no glass pane and she slipped from Anello’s arms,..."


FALSE^^^^^^----they left out the part about him moving her from the rail to the window ledge. BIG DIFFERENCE between the 2.

In the reenactment they showed him putting her ion the window ledge. So why did they leave that out of this explanation?

Not arguing that this excuses anyone but I think MW defense of the photos showing the doll on the window ledge would be that they were not claiming that SA put her there but that they were simply illustrating that it was not possible for him to hold her outside the window. Really the only logical reason I can think they would have for including those photos. Unfortunately for MW the photos actually show the opposite. With arms fully extended (reaching for the glass as SA has claimed) the doll would absolutely be outside the window. I think including those photos was a big error on MW’s part because it puts it in people’s minds that they’re showing what they believe SA did (calling it a recreation) and because it would be very easy for RCCL to show that the doll would go outside with the holders arms extended.
 
So, fine, whatever. You are being supportive of the family, and I am not. I am not understanding or appreciating their attitude. IMHO we will see some measure of justice for Chloe when the whole truth comes out. We all have our own opinions. View attachment 228893

I’m not being supportive of the family. I’m just pointing out that people are making a lot of assumptions.
 
Not arguing that this excuses anyone but I think MW defense of the photos showing the doll on the window ledge would be that they were not claiming that SA put her there but that they were simply illustrating that it was not possible for him to hold her outside the window. Really the only logical reason I can think they would have for including those photos. Unfortunately for MW the photos actually show the opposite. With arms fully extended (reaching for the glass as SA has claimed) the doll would absolutely be outside the window. I think including those photos was a big error on MW’s part because it puts it in people’s minds that they’re showing what they believe SA did (calling it a recreation) and because it would be very easy for RCCL to show that the doll would go outside with the holders arms extended.
If so, that was a stupid decision on their part. They called this a reenactment. They should not have used the doll, and placed her on that ledge, if it was just about a measuring question. JMO
 
I'm going through the media thread again to refresh myself on the timeline and this article from the Daily Mail 7/11 (Post #30) states their lawyer told them not to speak to police.

The accident was 7/9 in the afternoon, this article is 7/11, so they had a lawyer by sunrise 7/10.

But an official from the justice department told DailyMail.com that, on the advice of his lawyer, the elderly IT worker from Valparaiso, Indiana, left the ministry later that day without giving an official statement.

Alan Weigand, a 40-year-old police officer with the South Bend Police Department, and his attorney wife Kimberly, 36, were flying back to the US on a different flight.

A hearse and a police escort were due to meet them to escort Chloe's body back to their hometown of Granger, Indiana.
The couple had met with Justice Department officials on Tuesday and similarly refused to give witness statements, claiming they were on a different part of the ship when Chloe fell and didn't see anything.

DailyMail.com can reveal they were also then given the opportunity to view a 'high quality' video of their daughter's final moments captured from an onboard camera - but were too distraught to watch.

'The family were asked to come to the Justice Department to talk about what happened but they decided not to since their lawyer had told them not to,' said Justice Department spokesman Kelvin Carrasco.

'The investigation is going to keep going. Maybe they will be asked to come again.'
The Weigands have retained criminal attorneys in San Juan who have thus far declined to speak to the media.
 
IMHO we will see some measure of justice for Chloe when the whole truth comes out.

I'm with you, SaguaroSpirit, Chloe deserves justice. It's possible that Sam has recently developed cognitive issues and cannot tell when windows are open, or that he was simply distracted. Another possibility is that he deliberately pushed Chloe out the window, intending harm. And then there are a number of possibilities that lay between either of those two extremes. None of us know for certain, but we may sense or intuit certain things based on our impressions and experiences. A toddler is dead and some of the actions and words of the family members are difficult to understand. Nothing definite, just feels "off."
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
120
Guests online
205
Total visitors
325

Forum statistics

Threads
608,719
Messages
18,244,554
Members
234,435
Latest member
ProfKim
Back
Top