IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #7

[al66pine]

Reenactor Margulies as Possible 'Fact Witness?' RCL's (Possible) Objections?

I was wondering how that would play out at trial. MW’s law partner served as the stand-in for AW. Would the RCL team be able to question him under oath at trial? Could RCL pose such questions as:
“Mr. Margulies, during your reenactment did you notice any difference in tint between open and closed windows?”
-or-
“Mr. Margulies, how far from the windows were you when you first were able to determine that the open window in front of you was in fact open?
That would force him to make an awkward decision:
a. claim he couldn’t tell the difference either, thereby casting doubt on his mental faculties and/or on the veracity of anything else he has said.
b. admit it is easy to see the difference, thereby preserving his own reputation but casting doubt on the veracity of SA’s claim that he couldn't tell the difference.
I suspect that, with client-attorney privilege, Margulies could not be compelled to testify against his client, but wouldn’t that make the whole reenactment inadmissible?

@WiseGuy Oooh, wouldn't that ^ be something? Good questions. Altho many of us would like to see this ^, I suspect RCL would prefer to see favorable disposition of this case pre-trial rather than post-trial.
If RCL's possible objection (per my post # 839) to plaintiffs' intro of these 'reenactment' photos is sustained, then plaintiffs would not be permitted to intro them, and would thus lose some momentum for continuing to trial (and RCL would not pose these oh-so-embarrassing questions to Margulies).
But could be wishful thinking on my part. jmo.

 

[al66pine]

"Reenactment" Photos? Switching Out Reenactors?

OMG ... seriously?? They are trying to say that the stance in the reenactment pic (1st pic) is exactly the same as the stance in the real (2nd) pic . View attachment 229494 View attachment 229495. Just a few pages into the 105 page doco and already I can see why Royal Caribbean are disputing the accuracy of the lawsuit photos and diagrams!

@SouthAussie . Glad to see you back on the thread (concerned about you w the wildfires. Hoping you and yours are all okay.).
Yes, yes, yes. For example, reenactor Margulies' polo-style shirt was a distinctive color: shrimp, salmon, pink, what-ev. color, w black sacks? Is it possible that the figure shown here https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/zz-jpg.229494/ is Margulies in his distinctive color shirt? IDK, but does not seem like same man, imo.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Reenactor Margulies as Possible 'Fact Witness?' RCL's (Possible) Objections?

@WiseGuy Oooh, wouldn't that ^ be something? Good questions. Altho many of us would like to see this ^, I suspect RCL would prefer to see favorable disposition of this case pre-trial rather than post-trial.
If RCL's possible objection (per my post # 839) to plaintiffs' intro of these 'reenactment' photos is sustained, then plaintiffs would not be permitted to intro them, and would thus lose some momentum for continuing to trial (and RCL would not pose these oh-so-embarrassing questions to Margulies).
But could be wishful thinking on my part. jmo.

I suppose RCCL could request that SA and Margulies stand next to each other. I’d bet there is a big difference. 5’10” v. what appears to be minus 7 inches.
And strength. Marguiles can lift himself up on the rail. And balance himself. Wondering if he lost his balance and fell off the railing while shooting pics. Hmm. I guess SA isn’t too old to lift Chloe. And how old is Margulies?

 

[Midwestmom2019]

"Reenactment" Photos? Switching Out Reenactors?
@SouthAussie . Glad to see you back on the thread (concerned about you w the wildfires, so hoping you and yours are okay). Yes, yes, yes. For example, reenactor Margulies' polo-style shirt was a distinctive color: shrimp, salmon, pink, what-ev. color, w black sacks? Is it possible that the figure shown here https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/zz-jpg.229494/ is Margulies in his distinctive color shirt? IDK, but does not seem like same man, imo.

That might be the guy measuring the rail to window distance. You remember. He clearly has arms that can reach into and beyond the window frame. Without even bending. Most damaging photo IMOO.
Picture is blurry but can see light shirt and tall man.

 

[Wehwalt]

I don't believe plaintiffs intend to introduce photographs of the Barbados re-enactment at trial. Their purpose in my view is to get the plaintiffs by the motion to dismiss. Had it been SA in the pictures that would be quite another matter but I don't think we will ever see SA set foot on a RCCI ship. Just because they've been submitted for the motion does not make them trial evidence.

For evidence to be introduced, it must have some probative value and I do not see where this does. That does not mean that pictures from the Barbados view cannot be introduced to depict the scene, just ones of the guy. I don't expect them to try, if this gets that far.

 

[SouthAussie]

"Reenactment" Photos? Switching Out Reenactors?
@SouthAussie . Glad to see you back on the thread (concerned about you w the wildfires. Hoping you and yours are all okay.).
Yes, yes, yes. For example, reenactor Margulies' polo-style shirt was a distinctive color: shrimp, salmon, pink, what-ev. color, w black sacks? Is it possible that the figure shown here https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/zz-jpg.229494/ is Margulies in his distinctive color shirt? IDK, but does not seem like same man, imo.

Thanks, al66pine. All good in my area at the moment.

 

[In vino veritas]

Proof that SA is an actor, among other things. (I posted this in one of the very early threads).

https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/play-depicts-crown-point-marriage-mill-days/article_2bf6f69f-ce29-5a68-a6a7-2dbeb519944c.html?

"Kimberly said of Anello, who resides in Valparaiso and has ties to community theater in Crown Point. " https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/porter/family-of--month-old-girl-killed-in-cruise-ship/article_2c598743-fd94-58b9-b2b6-138abd2e54d8.html?NWITimes

 

[In vino veritas]

Proof that SA is an actor, among other things. (I posted this in one of the very early threads).

https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/play-depicts-crown-point-marriage-mill-days/article_2bf6f69f-ce29-5a68-a6a7-2dbeb519944c.html?

"Kimberly said of Anello, who resides in Valparaiso and has ties to community theater in Crown Point. " https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/porter/family-of--month-old-girl-killed-in-cruise-ship/article_2c598743-fd94-58b9-b2b6-138abd2e54d8.html?NWITimes

Perhaps I’m reaching here, but in the second article referencing the Today show interview there is a paragraph I find interesting.
It states that initially KE did not fall out of window, but when she learned something happened to Chloe she ran right to the wall of glass.

Given that she left Chloe at the H2O Zone with SA, wouldn’t the natural assumption be that an accident occurred there??
Again, I’m reaching here. Could be just a poorly worded paragraph, or perhaps KW saw people looking out the windows and drew conclusions.....
just something to ponder.

 

[In vino veritas]

Perhaps I’m reaching here, but in the second article referencing the Today show interview there is a paragraph I find interesting.
It states that initially KE did not fall out of window, but when she learned something happened to Chloe she ran right to the wall of glass.

Given that she left Chloe at the H2O Zone with SA, wouldn’t the natural assumption be that an accident occurred there??
Again, I’m reaching here. Could be just a poorly worded paragraph, or perhaps KW saw people looking out the windows and drew conclusions.....
just something to ponder.

Oops... correction to my post. KW claimed she didn’t know Chloe had fallen out the window, but when she learned......

 

[neesaki]

Perhaps I’m reaching here, but in the second article referencing the Today show interview there is a paragraph I find interesting.
It states that initially KE did not fall out of window, but when she learned something happened to Chloe she ran right to the wall of glass.

Given that she left Chloe at the H2O Zone with SA, wouldn’t the natural assumption be that an accident occurred there??
Again, I’m reaching here. Could be just a poorly worded paragraph, or perhaps KW saw people looking out the windows and drew conclusions.....
just something to ponder.

For some reason that link takes me to YouTube first, so going to re post the link to the article.
This paragraph? Hmmm, not sure if poorly worded or other. It does sound as though she expected to see water though. Also I wonder if she knew Chloe was deceased before she got to the windows or just that there had been an accident.
Family of 18-month-old girl killed in cruise ship fall continues to question company's role in her death

When she initially learned of the toddler's death, Kimberly said she didn't know the child had fallen from a window and ran toward the glass paneling. But as she looked over the edge, she learned the truth, seeing concrete instead of water.

 

[JerseySleuth17]

In watching SA's interview with CBS, I get the distinct impression he is not really on board with the family's angle that it's the cruise line's fault but he is going along with this narrative because it's what the family wants. To me his efforts seem half hearted. The interviewer even says to him point blank "you blame the cruise ship?" and he gives a wishy washy answer, doesn't ever actually say "yes" just says "I want the boat fixed". And of course if there had been any kind of sign or "warning" he *never* would have done what he did (I guess the fact there was a safety railing there and an OPEN window wasn't enough of a warning ugh). I would also love to hear a body language expert's analysis of that interview - his arms are folded across his chest, he never really makes eye contact with the interviewer, to me he doesn't even seem emotionally wrecked by what happened.

 

[Wicked Strong]

In watching SA's interview with CBS, I get the distinct impression he is not really on board with the family's angle that it's the cruise line's fault but he is going along with this narrative because it's what the family wants. To me his efforts seem half hearted. The interviewer even says to him point blank "you blame the cruise ship?" and he gives a wishy washy answer, doesn't ever actually say "yes" just says "I want the boat fixed". And of course if there had been any kind of sign or "warning" he *never* would have done what he did (I guess the fact there was a safety railing there and an OPEN window wasn't enough of a warning ugh). I would also love to hear a body language expert's analysis of that interview - his arms are folded across his chest, he never really makes eye contact with the interviewer, to me he doesn't even seem emotionally wrecked by what happened.

Yes, he did seem to be avoiding making eye contact, then he would try to sob, but no tears? Either he was out of tears (can you ever not be able to cry), or he was acting.

MOO

 

[Kindred]

I googled that and I got the hand bags he’s been selling all these years. Now I know why he can afford to cruise. And take everyone with him.

Wait what? He sells hand bags??

 

[al66pine]

Wait what? He sells hand bags??

I believe Midwestmom2019 is having a laugh. PRODUCTS｜anello® OFFICIAL SITE

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Yes, he did seem to be avoiding making eye contact, then he would try to sob, but no tears? Either he was out of tears (can you ever not be able to cry), or he was acting.

MOO

MOO, looked weird to me how he asked for a glass of water, then *pow* came the waterworks. ACTING!!

 

[Lawnguylander1964]

Also, right now on CNBC, Fein CEO RCCL will be on to talk coronavirus, but I'll let you know if Chloe comes up.

ETA: All coronavirus tawk.

 

[al66pine]

Proof that SA is an actor, among other things. (I posted this in one of the very early threads).

https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/play-depicts-crown-point-marriage-mill-days/article_2bf6f69f-ce29-5a68-a6a7-2dbeb519944c.html?
"Kimberly said of Anello, who resides in Valparaiso and has ties to community theater in Crown Point. " https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/porter/family-of--month-old-girl-killed-in-cruise-ship/article_2c598743-fd94-58b9-b2b6-138abd2e54d8.html?NWITimes

@Chikkamma
^ Proof that SA is an actor? Yes.
Proof of being a good actor? Nope.
Just as well. Some might be reluctant to doubt a good actor.
Great find, thanks for (re)posting.

 

[justbreathe]

All of the bar stools and tables are VERY heavy and difficult to move. They have to be because of the instability at sea.

So children would not be able to move the barstools, IMO.

And you can’t sue someone for something that maybe could have happened. You can only sue them for what did happen. Moving chairs, etc has nothing to Do with what happened to Chloe.

 

[justbreathe]

Dbm

 

[they'll get you]

In watching SA's interview with CBS, I get the distinct impression he is not really on board with the family's angle that it's the cruise line's fault but he is going along with this narrative because it's what the family wants. To me his efforts seem half hearted. The interviewer even says to him point blank "you blame the cruise ship?" and he gives a wishy washy answer, doesn't ever actually say "yes" just says "I want the boat fixed". And of course if there had been any kind of sign or "warning" he *never* would have done what he did (I guess the fact there was a safety railing there and an OPEN window wasn't enough of a warning ugh). I would also love to hear a body language expert's analysis of that interview - his arms are folded across his chest, he never really makes eye contact with the interviewer, to me he doesn't even seem emotionally wrecked by what happened.

SA’s body language has never sat well with me.
What you said about his arms and also this public interview how he flicks his hand as if to say ‘whatever’ or ‘I’m finished’
He starts @ 2:30
Chloe Wiegand's family sues Royal Caribbean over toddler's cruise ship death