IN IN - Kirsten Brueggeman, 26, seen on camera walking, white backpack, Indianapolis, 2 Jan 2021

[DeDee]

She doesn't need a ride home from work so she had no car. Manley's Irish Pub closes at 1am but Kirsten leaves the pub after an argument with her ex bf, and 3 of his friends who left her alone to, er, go bowling around 12:15am - 12:20am when she departed the pub.

Snipped by me
Correction on Manley's closing time the night Kirsten went missing after viewing a video that explained Manley's Irish Mutt closed at 12:00 midnight due to Covid.


Manley's Irish Mutt | Pub & Eatery | Indianapolis Eastside | 10th Street

 

[youarentsilly]

So why would Kirsten walk into a fenced in parking lot, alone, late at night? Did she know this area well and knew about the fence, or did she wander in the parking lot looking for a possible shortcut to another destination? Could alcohol be a factor here?

She appears to be highly intoxicated so, IMO, the unreasonable and unlikely become possible. That includes walking into a fenced-in lot and climbing the fence.

 

[Dargon335]

She appears to be highly intoxicated so, IMO, the unreasonable and unlikely become possible. That includes walking into a fenced-in lot and climbing the fence.

Having watched the Disappeared episode, and after seeing the security videos, IMO it does appear Kirsten is intoxicated based on the way she's walking. She appears a bit unsteady, especially in the final video, just before the camera glitch begins. MOO.

IIRC, her phone was turned off, or stopped working for some reason, around 12:30AM, as phone calls from her mother went unanswered. This is about the same time Kirsten began walking away from the Irish Mutt parking lot.

One thing that is not mentioned in the Disappeared episode is the length of time it took Kirsten to arrive at the YMCA parking lot (1:59AM), which is roughly 90 minutes after she was seen in the Irish Mutt parking lot. The reports I've seen indicate the walking time between the bar and the YMCA is about 15 or 20 minutes. Given the fact that Kirsten had been drinking and appears to be walking somewhat erratically, it likely took her longer to walk this distance.

Detective Bockting indicates Kirsten was seen on video walking along Shortridge Rd. around 12:40AM, however, that leaves about an hour of time that is not accounted for between the sighting on Shortridge Rd and her arriving at the YMCA.

Another point to consider is that the detective indicated that this is a 'high violent crime area'. How, or if, that may factor into her disappearance is unclear, but it does seem to be a fairly risky area to be walking alone at 2:00AM, especially after spending the evening drinking.

At one point in the episode a large hole is shown in the YMCA fence, large enough for a person to fit through. It's not indicated exactly where this hole is but IMO this could be facing the Abbey Meadows Apartment building. If this hole in the fence existed at the time Kirsten was last seen, then it's conceivable she could have exited the YMCA parking lot, heading towards the apartment complex.

At this time there's no evidence to indicate how and when Kirsten exited the fenced in YMCA parking lot. We do know that when the camera began working again at 2:30AM there was no sign of Kirsten.

 

[shadwell]

At one point in the episode a large hole is shown in the YMCA fence, large enough for a person to fit through. It's not indicated exactly where this hole is but IMO this could be facing the Abbey Meadows Apartment building. If this hole in the fence existed at the time Kirsten was last seen, then it's conceivable she could have exited the YMCA parking lot, heading towards the apartment complex.

The hole appears to be close to bins/dumpsters at the back corner of the YMCA parking lot. Streetview images from three years ago suggest it was not present at that time, but by the time the Disappeared episode was filmed it was behind the red dumpster in the YMCA lot (circled in attached photo below).

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Between KB’s apparent state of intoxication, the missing time period, disappearance from cctv and the presence of dumpsters I’m starting to get a strong Corrie McKeague vibe. Anybody know if those dumpsters were checked by LE before any collection in the days after KB’s disappearance?

 

[Dargon335]

Thanks @shadwell for the images of the parking area where Kirsten was last seen. So we don't know for certain if that hole in the fence was present at the time Kirsten was last seen. If it was there, then it's possible she could have exited the parking lot via that hole. If it wasn't there at the time, then it becomes a non-factor.

She appeared to be walking in the general direction of the Abbey Meadows apartments when the video stopped, but we don't know if that was her intended destination. Since she was intoxicated at the time, it's unclear what she might have been thinking, or how familiar she was with that area.

Her BF lives in that general area, but a short distance north of the YMCA, so Kirsten was headed away from where he lived.

If the Abbey Meadows apartment complex was her intended destination, why would she not walk a bit father on Shortridge Rd and enter via the apartment driveway, rather than walk into the YMCA parking lot?

As mentioned earlier in the thread, her state of intoxication negates logical thinking in this situation.

 

[shadwell]

The hole appears to be close to bins/dumpsters at the back corner of the YMCA parking lot. Streetview images from three years ago suggest it was not present at that time, but by the time the Disappeared episode was filmed it was behind the red dumpster in the YMCA lot (circled in attached photo below).

Google Maps

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maps.app.goo.gl

Between KB’s apparent state of intoxication, the missing time period, disappearance from cctv and the presence of dumpsters I’m starting to get a strong Corrie McKeague vibe. Anybody know if those dumpsters were checked by LE before any collection in the days after KB’s disappearance?

View attachment 413384View attachment 413385View attachment 413386View attachment 413387

Or perhaps more to the point, does anyone know when those dumpsters were first emptied after 1st January 2021?

Looking again through the Disappeared episode, I see several indications that (possibly following some tension between KB and her parents over the holiday period) KB was looking to avoid going home on the night of 1st January and when last seen on cctv was looking for a place to sleep. In particular:

SMS message from LB to KB states “Will you please remember [with/after] everything that has happened [to] be careful and good?”

Eddie states that KB initiated the pub meeting on the night of 1st January.

IMO the argument outside the bar related to Eddie intending to take KB home, or otherwise to contact her parents - she refused both (because she didn’t want them to know she was drunk).

Again IMO - after leaving the bar parking lot on foot KB wandered around for some time - initially to avoid going home (especially in an obviously intoxicated state) and then later looking for a place to sleep the night.

She is seen on cctv near the YMCA building entering what (iirc) is referred to as a ‘niche’ but finding nowhere secluded enough to sleep there she carries on along the fence.

After the point at which she disappears from the cctv image at 2am, my inclination (currently, at least) is that she continued to the end of the pool fence line, saw the white fenced area to the left and headed for it in the hope it would offer somewhere to bed down out of sight. After arriving there she climbed into a dumpster (most likely the red one inside the YMCA parking lot) and fell asleep.

Eddie notes in the Disappeared episode that he checked dumpster areas, so he may have been aware that (like Corrie McKeague) KB had previously slept in them - but prior to the cctv being collected nobody knew she had been in the YMCA area (afaik).

All JMO (based on the currently available info), obvs.

 

[shadwell]

Images and streetview relating to previous post:

SMS message from LB to KB:



Cctv image of KB entering the YMCA building ‘niche’ at 01:58:59 (from Disappeared episode):



KB leaves ‘niche’ eight seconds later at 01:59:07 (circled, obscured by trees):



KB continuing around corner of fence 18 seconds later at 01:59:25:



Streetview image of YMCA ‘niche’ area. Note the tree has been shortened since 2021. IMO KB was attempting to enter the fenced area at this point with the intention of sleeping there out of sight, but found the gate locked and so moved on:



Streetview link:

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[ex-stat]

Yes, it is definitely possible but personally I think there is way too much focus on the YMCA. We know she went through the YMCA, she may easily have left there and carried on walking. The camera glitch does not indicate that was the time or location of her disappearance.

We know she went through there and then the camera glitched. I presume they checked it was not tampered with and also, if someone inside the YMCA at 2AM had harmed her, why would they edit out part of her footage and leave the footage of her coming on to the premises and disappearing? It doesn't really make sense (this is just a general comment, not a reply to shadwell! I'm just adding this in because of the order in which my comment has fallen under!).

She left at 12:15, her phone was off at 12:35, but she is seen in footage after that - so her phone died or she switched it off. So it is possible she would not have been able to call an Uber or her parents etc.

Were it not for the glitch there would not be all of this focus on the YMCA and I think it is really unfortunate.

What concerns me more is the apartment complex opposite, as anyone who was sitting waiting in a car or near a window would have been able to see her. It is not meant to be a good area and it was in the middle of the night. But she may have left this region and carried on walking.

It reminds me a bit of Rachel Cooke (Disappeared, Season 4 Episode 1) - she was last seen 100-200 ft from her home and there was all of this publicity that she had disappeared on a run, when every indication was that she had returned home (her walkman was back) and that instead of disappearing in the two minute period between the last sighting and home she had disappeared in the time period of the hours that she was at home until family returned.

 

[Chappy]

And where was she for an hour and a half in the middle of the night in Indiana in January? I am under the impression that the bar was closing, so she could not have just gone back in there?

Are we 100% sure the phone was even on her when it was turned off? Was it turned off or ran out of battery? Why would she turn it off, or where would she be heading with a dead phone?

A lot of questions. Thank you, @Dargon335 for pointing all these out, these aspects were also heavy on my heart.

On her Instagram photo from 2016, I noticed scars on her arm that look a lot like old self-harm scars. I don't really think this is related to the case, as it is hard to commit suicide in a way that your body is not found, while in a city and drunk. But it is of course not impossible, and being drunk and having a prior conflict can increase the odds of suicide. There were also several photos hinting at weed and drugs, and cannabis use can trigger a mental episode (especially in her age). But in this case, I feel that foul play is sadly way more likely.

Does anyone know if she had another phone (burner phone) sometimes used for nefarious activities. Secret significant others, drugs, prostitution… respectfully. Even for a social media app on the downlow mixed with alcohol we don’t always make the best decisions. Are there any motels near by ? Hmmmm.

 

[Chappy]

Don’t know if anyone posted this but it’s “The Murder street podcast about the disappearance of Kirsten.

 

[Dargon335]

Very interesting and insightful discussion regarding Kirsten's case. A number of possible scenarios have been discussed in this thread, but without additional information we cannot be certain what happened that morning.

Given that she had been drinking at the bar earlier and her judgement could have been impaired, it's difficult to predict Kirsten's state of mind or her thought process. However, we do know people cannot simply vanish, so there must be a logical explanation for her disappearance.

Unfortunately we don't have enough facts to determine what actually happened after the YMCA camera stopped working at 2:00AM.

 

[Curiousobserver]

Very interesting and insightful discussion regarding Kirsten's case. A number of possible scenarios have been discussed in this thread, but without additional information we cannot be certain what happened that morning.

Given that she had been drinking at the bar earlier and her judgement could have been impaired, it's difficult to predict Kirsten's state of mind or her thought process. However, we do know people cannot simply vanish, so there must be a logical explanation for her disappearance.

Unfortunately we don't have enough facts to determine what actually happened after the YMCA camera stopped working at 2:00AM.

That's right, she is somewhere.

My early assumption was that this is an accidental disappearance: i.e. in an angry and drunken state she got herself somewhere (like in a dumpster, or on a roof, or in a "someplace" hidden away) where she expired.

 

[Dargon335]

That's right, she is somewhere.

My early assumption was that this is an accidental disappearance: i.e. in an angry and drunken state she got herself somewhere (like in a dumpster, or on a roof, or in a "someplace" hidden away) where she expired.

I agree. IMO it's possible that Kirsten gained access to a dumpster for sleep and shelter. This theory could explain the lack of later visual sightings and no one finding her personal items (backpack, phone, etc.). However, we simply don't know if that's what happened.

Since the same cameras that captured her walking south, from the bar to the YMCA, apparently did not capture her walking back in the general direction of the bar, then logic suggests she did not travel back in that direction, at least not on foot. In addition, LE hasn't released any evidence that Kirsten was seen south of the YMCA, so presumably she didn't walk in that direction either.